How do Catholics interpret the Book of Revelation?

[EdOsiecki]

Yes, a future prediction in the beginning of the first century.

Jesus drew from Daniel to announce the Temple’s ultimate destruction and desecration by the Roman army in 70 A.D.

"When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, know that its desolation is at hand. Then those in Judea must flee to the mountains. Let those within the city escape from it, and let those in the countryside not enter the city, for these days are the time of punishment when all the scriptures are fulfilled. (Luke 21:20-22)

That was the tribulation to come. Jesus warned the early Christians to escape Jerusalem before it’s judgment and to resist the tempation to defend the city (because Jesus’ new Church was so young and fragile that it risked being destoyed). It has since grown into a mountain and will never be that vulnerable.

You must also recognize that “throught the whole world” speaks of the scope of Christianity’s presence in the Roman Empire.

**First, I give thanks to my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is heralded throughout the world. (Rom 1:8)

Of this you have already heard through the word of truth, the gospel, that has come to you. Just as in the whole world it is bearing fruit and growing, so also among you, from the day you heard it and came to know the grace of God in truth. . . provided that you persevere in the faith, firmly grounded, stable, and not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, am a minister. (Col 1:5a-6, 23)**

IF there is to be a future second fulfillment of the verses you cite, it will happen during Rev 20:8-9.

Hi ryanoneil it’s good to hear from you. In reference to your above first sentence (70 A.D.) , in Mat 24:14 Jesus said, “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the world as a witness to all nations, and then the end will come.” In the next verse 15 Jesus refers to the abomination of desolation (horrible thing being set up) referring to Daniel 12:11 which is in the middle of the great tribulation, (1290 days that’s in the future) The abomination of desolation I take it to mean the statue in Rev 13:15 that will be set up to be worshipped by all. In 70 A.D. the gospel was just beginning to be preached, all nations didn’t exist yet. Also I’m not aware of any abomination of desolation that was set up in the temple in 70 A.D. Am I right or wrong? Let’s hear from you. ED O.

 

[pipper]

Hi ryanoneil it’s good to hear from you. In reference to your above first sentence (70 A.D.) , in Mat 24:14 Jesus said, “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the world as a witness to all nations, and then the end will come.” In the next verse 15 Jesus refers to the abomination of desolation (horrible thing being set up) referring to Daniel 12:11 which is in the middle of the great tribulation, (1290 days that’s in the future) The abomination of desolation I take it to mean the statue in Rev 13:15 that will be set up to be worshipped by all. In 70 A.D. the gospel was just beginning to be preached, all nations didn’t exist yet. Also I’m not aware of any abomination of desolation that was set up in the temple in 70 A.D. Am I right or wrong? Let’s hear from you. ED O.

Ed. HOW DO CATHOLICS INTERPRET THE BOOK OF REVELATION???

CATHOLICS

 

[diggerdomer]

In 70 A.D. the gospel was just beginning to be preached,

No, the Gospel had been preached for decades by then already i.e. since Jesus’ resurrection/ascension and Pentecost.

 

[jmcrae]

In 70 A.D. the gospel was just beginning to be preached, all nations didn’t exist yet.

It’s true that all of the nations we know of today did not yet exist or had not yet been discovered in 70 AD, but the Gospel began to be preached right away in 30 AD - it had been going already for four decades - virtually a lifetime, in those days - by 70 AD. In 70 AD, it began to be written down, but the preaching was already quite well established.

Also I’m not aware of any abomination of desolation that was set up in the temple in 70 A.D. Am I right or wrong?

Seriously? You don’t read a lot of history, do you? 70 AD is the year that the statue of Caesar Vespasian was established in the Temple to be worshipped, and when the Jews rebelled rather than worship that statue, the Romans utterly destroyed the Temple, literally separating the stones from the rocks, leaving nothing except the one wall that remains until today, known as the Wailing Wall.

 

[EdOsiecki]

I apologize for stealing jmcrae’s thunder and being preemptive, and hope you don’t mind if I give my abreviated two cents worth. Throughout the book of Revelation, John sees visions of what is happening in heaven and other things happening on earth. The celebration in heaven is over Jesus’ eternal presentation, of his sacrifice, to the Father (which is why he appears as a priest and a lamb who is slain). On earth they are celebrating the Mass which is how we join the heavenly celebration here on earth. The Mass is the weapon against the dragon and the beasts. They proclaim the truth of Christ through their actions in the liturgy instead of armed conflict with the beast. The dragon and beast’s weapons are deception and force.

Historically, the deception was that Ceasar was god (which is why sacrifice to Ceasar was demanded in the town square if you wanted to do business). The force was the death penalty if you didn’t comply. If you complied with the emperor sacrifice you recieved the mark of the beast and were damned for idol worship. If you didn’t comply you recieved God’s mark, but many paid with their life. The Apocalypse reveals that Christ’s true sacrifice, celebrated in the Mass, is what leads to everlasting life and the defeat of all beast’s throughout history (regardless of the deception or force used against God’s people).

Hi ryanoneil be not concerned about apologizing. It’s good to hear your reply. You say historically if a person complied with Caesar’s sacrifice he/she was given a mark. Are you sure? My reason for asking is Rev 16:2b, states malignant sores broke out on everyone who had the mark of the Creature and was worshipping his statue." I take that to mean it’s in the future as a result of chip implants. What’s your take on this? ED O.

 

[EdOsiecki]

It’s true that all of the nations we know of today did not yet exist or had not yet been discovered in 70 AD, but the Gospel began to be preached right away in 30 AD - it had been going already for four decades - virtually a lifetime, in those days - by 70 AD. In 70 AD, it began to be written down, but the preaching was already quite well established.

Seriously? You don’t read a lot of history, do you? 70 AD is the year that the statue of Caesar Vespasian was established in the Temple to be worshipped, and when the Jews rebelled rather than worship that statue, the Romans utterly destroyed the Temple, literally separating the stones from the rocks, leaving nothing except the one wall that remains until today, known as the Wailing Wall.

Hi jmcrae thanks for your good reply. Yes I admit I’m not that well versed in Jewish history. My concern is this: In Mat 24:14 I realize that the gospel was already being preached, but all the nations didn’t exists yet. Jesus said, “then the end will come”. Jesus wanted all nations to hear the gospel. He then follows up with the abomination of desolation that is described in Daniel 12:11 which is in the middle of the great tribulation 1290 days. Which is yet to come. When I then read Rev 13:15 a statue going to be set to be worshipped this seems to correspond to Daniel 12:11 and Mat 24:15 rather than the 70 A.D. statue doesn’t it? ED O.

 

[ryanoneil]

Hi ryanoneil it’s good to hear from you. In reference to your above first sentence (70 A.D.) , in Mat 24:14 Jesus said, “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the world as a witness to all nations, and then the end will come.” In the next verse 15 Jesus refers to the abomination of desolation (horrible thing being set up) referring to Daniel 12:11 which is in the middle of the great tribulation, (1290 days that’s in the future) The abomination of desolation I take it to mean the statue in Rev 13:15 that will be set up to be worshipped by all. In 70 A.D. the gospel was just beginning to be preached, all nations didn’t exist yet. Also I’m not aware of any abomination of desolation that was set up in the temple in 70 A.D. Am I right or wrong? Let’s hear from you. ED O.

Hi Ed. You are wrong that it did not happen. Like I posted, in Rom and Col, the Roman Empire was considered the known world at the time. Daniel 12:11 does not refer to our future. It refers to the persecution and Temple desolation of Antiochus around 160 B.C. Jesus uses that imagery to point to the Temple’s ultimate destruction by the Romans. The Jewish-Roman war lasted 3 1/2 years by the way (which is approximately 1290 days).

Revelation 13 refers to the sacrifice to Emperor Nero that was required to do business let alone survive in the Empire. He and Rome are the sea beast. That sacrifice was also performed in the Temple in order for the Jews to survive. Not long after the outlaw zelot’s forced the Sanhedrin to stop performing the sacrifice to Nero, is when the Jewish-Roman war started. The land beast is the Sanhedrin who also persecuted the early Christians. And also realize that when the beast turns on the harlot, it was Rome turning on the Sanhedrin and Jerusalem. Jmcrae is correct about Vespasian’s desecration of the Temple after Nero’s suicide.

Jesus said “Amen, I say to you, this generation 20 will not pass away until all these things have taken place” in Mat 24:34. A generation was approximatly 40 years at the time, and St. John was still living when the Temple was destroyed. A generation does not equal 2,000+ years.

Now, the initial fulfillment of this scripture around 70 A.D. is a prefigurement for the end of the world, and it does point toward the return of Christ. But things will not necessarily play out verse by verse like they did the first time. And like I said earlier, if it does play out that way it will all occur in Rev 20:8-9. Following Christ’s return comes Judgment day and eternity in the new heaven and earth.

Peace

 

[EdOsiecki]

No, the Gospel had been preached for decades by then already i.e. since Jesus’ resurrection/ascension and Pentecost.

Hi diggerdomer thanks for your reply. Yes you are right, the gospel had been preached right after the ascension. I used the wrong word “beginning.” What I meant was, in 70 A.D. the gospel was in the early stages of being preached compared to 1900 years later. I apologize and thank you for your response. ED O.

 

[ryanoneil]

Hi ryanoneil be not concerned about apologizing. It’s good to hear your reply. You say historically if a person complied with Caesar’s sacrifice he/she was given a mark. Are you sure? My reason for asking is Rev 16:2b, states malignant sores broke out on everyone who had the mark of the Creature and was worshipping his statue." I take that to mean it’s in the future as a result of chip implants. What’s your take on this? ED O.

When you read Rev chapter 11, notice it is talking about the Temple and the war in the great city code named Sodom and Egypt, where the Lord was crucified. The seven bowls being poured out in Rev 16 is decribing the Jewish-Roman It uses the imagery of the plagues on Egypt to describe God’s punishment of Jerusalem (carried out by the Roman army).

 

[diggerdomer]

Hi diggerdomer thanks for your reply. Yes you are right, the gospel had been preached right after the ascension. I used the wrong word “beginning.” What I meant was, in 70 A.D. the gospel was in the early stages of being preached compared to 1900 years later. I apologize and thank you for your response. ED O.

Oh, ok, thanks, sorry I misunderstood.

 

[EdOsiecki]

Hi Ed. You are wrong that it did not happen. Like I posted, in Rom and Col, the Roman Empire was considered the known world at the time. Daniel 12:11 does not refer to our future. It refers to the persecution and Temple desolation of Antiochus around 160 B.C. Jesus uses that imagery to point to the Temple’s ultimate destruction by the Romans. The Jewish-Roman war lasted 3 1/2 years by the way (which is approximately 1290 days).

Revelation 13 refers to the sacrifice to Emperor Nero that was required to do business let alone survive in the Empire. He and Rome are the sea beast. That sacrifice was also performed in the Temple in order for the Jews to survive. Not long after the outlaw zelot’s forced the Sanhedrin to stop performing the sacrifice to Nero, is when the Jewish-Roman war started. The land beast is the Sanhedrin who also persecuted the early Christians. And also realize that when the beast turns on the harlot, it was Rome turning on the Sanhedrin and Jerusalem. Jmcrae is correct about Vespasian’s desecration of the Temple after Nero’s suicide.

Jesus said “Amen, I say to you, this generation 20 will not pass away until all these things have taken place” in Mat 24:34. A generation was approximatly 40 years at the time, and St. John was still living when the Temple was destroyed. A generation does not equal 2,000+ years.

Now, the initial fulfillment of this scripture around 70 A.D. is a prefigurement for the end of the world, and it does point toward the return of Christ. But things will not necessarily play out verse by verse like they did the first time. And like I said earlier, if it does play out that way it will all occur in Rev 20:8-9. Following Christ’s return comes Judgment day and eternity in the new heaven and earth.

Peace

Hi ryanoneil thanks for your reply. In your first paragraph, I may not be wrong as you say. Daniel 12:11 does seem to refer to the future end times. Verse 1, “There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then.” Verse 2,” Multitudes who sleep in the dust of earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.” Verse 4, ”But Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end.” These three verses haven’t taken place yet! Verse 9, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are closed up and sealed until the time of the end.” now verse 11, speaks of the abomination of desolation and the 1290 days which Jesus refers to in Mat24:14 The persecution and Temple desolation of Antiochus 160 BC according to the previous verses could not be the End Time.

In your second paragraph, you state in Revelation 13 that Nero and Rome are the beast of the sea. Verse 3 states the beast was given a fatal wound that was healed which astonished the whole world, as a result people followed him. Verse 5 the beast was given authority for 3 ½ years to war against the saints. Verse 8,“all the inhabitants of earth WILL be required to worship the beast.” Revelation 13 continues with the beast of the earth who works in harmony with the beast of the sea. Verse 13, this beast deceives the people by doing many miracles, even causing fire to come down from heaven which astonishes them. Verse 14, as a result, “he ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.” This image even miraculously spoke. All the people were forced to receive a mark on their forehead or right hand so that they could buy and sell. Those who refused to worship the image were killed. Was Nero fatally wounded and yet lived and reigned only for 31/2 years ? If fire was miraculously brought down from heaven wouldn’t that be in history books?

Isn’t the Jewish generation that Jesus speaks about is the now generation which started in 1948, per Isaiah 66:7-8, but it was not totally restored until the Jews recaptured Jerusalem per Jesus in Luke 21:24. For the first time in 2500 years the Jews gained control of Jerusalem. God’s city, where Jesus will set His foot down on Mt. Olives when He returns per Zech 14:4? What is your take on all of this? ED O.

 

[ryanoneil]

Hi ryanoneil thanks for your reply. In your first paragraph, I may not be wrong as you say. Daniel 12:11 does seem to refer to the future end times. Verse 1, “There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then.” Verse 2,” Multitudes who sleep in the dust of earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.” Verse 4, ”But Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end.” These three verses haven’t taken place yet! Verse 9, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are closed up and sealed until the time of the end.” now verse 11, speaks of the abomination of desolation and the 1290 days which Jesus refers to in Mat24:14 The persecution and Temple desolation of Antiochus 160 BC according to the previous verses could not be the End Time.

Maybe you are misunderstanding me. Jesus is referencing what has already happened before him (ie Antiochus) and applying it to himself. In other words, Daniel had already been fulfilled during the time of Antiochus and Jesus is saying there will be a more significant fulfillment with me. That fulfillement occured within a generation of when he said it. Further, Jesus is saying the second fulfillment that will happen within a generation is a prefigurement of what will happen at the “very” end of time.

Verse 1 simply means it is the most distressing thing to happen up to that point.

The fulfillment of Verse 2 that happened before Jesus is similair to Ezekiel’s vision of dry bones that come to life. This spiritual resurrection is referring to the time of Antiochus’s persecution and the revival of biblical Judaism under the Maccabean war. After the defeat of Antiochus, the Temple was restored, the people of God were renewed, and biblical Judaism was resurrected.

Do you think a spiritual rebirth happened when Christ arrived? What about the dead that Jesus raised, or those saints who rose in Mat 27:52-53? Did Jesus restore the temple (ie his own body and his body the church who are living stones)?

In verse 4, Daneil is being told about a very specific knowledge, which will shed light on the meaning of his visions. This knowledge concerns the mystery of the Messiah’s Kingdom. That is the knowledge that will increase at the end, when the Messiah appears.

And He was saying to them, "To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables (Mr 4:11)

Verse 9 In times past, God spoke in partial and various ways to our ancestors through the prophets; in these last days, he spoke to us through a son, whom he made heir of all things and through whom he created the universe (Heb 1:1-2)

So you are correct that the end time is not the time of Antiochus, but the end time is the arrival of the Messiah and the 40 years of covanental transition that followed. All I’m trying to say is, the end times concerning Mat 24 and Rev 1-20:6 have happened. What remains is the end of the thousand years and the return of Christ. The fulfillment of Mat 24 and Rev 1-20:6 point to what will happen at the “very” end.

In your second paragraph, you state in Revelation 13 that Nero and Rome are the beast of the sea. Verse 3 states the beast was given a fatal wound that was healed which astonished the whole world, as a result people followed him. Verse 5 the beast was given authority for 3 ½ years to war against the saints. Verse 8,“all the inhabitants of earth WILL be required to worship the beast.” Revelation 13 continues with the beast of the earth who works in harmony with the beast of the sea. Verse 13, this beast deceives the people by doing many miracles, even causing fire to come down from heaven which astonishes them. Verse 14, as a result, “he ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.” This image even miraculously spoke. All the people were forced to receive a mark on their forehead or right hand so that they could buy and sell. Those who refused to worship the image were killed. Was Nero fatally wounded and yet lived and reigned only for 31/2 years ? If fire was miraculously brought down from heaven wouldn’t that be in history books?

Verse 3, the beast signifies Rome, and the wounded head symbolizes Nero. Rome endured Nero who’s reign was disatrous: uprisings, civil wars, everyone in Rome hated him and they finally revolted. On an individual level Nero’s suicide was a mortal wound. On the political level his suicide caused total disarray in the Empire, but it didn’t implode. Also, Nero’s failure to suppress the rovolt of the Jews spawned insurrections throughout the empire. After his suicide, Titus was victorious in the Jewish-Roman war in 70 A.D, and “mortal wound was healed.” Titus’ father Vespasian ruled over a peaceful Roman Empire for nine years.

Verse 5, describes the 3 1/2 year Jewish-Roman war.

Verse 8, Rome was invincible in much of the ancient world and like I said earlier, Nero rigorously enforced emperor worship on his subjects (which include everyone in Jerusalem). Notice also that it say everyone will worship except those who’s names were written in the book of life.

Verse 13 describes the Sanhedrin. A few chapters later they are referred to as “the false prophet”. They stood in the place of the greatest Old Testament prophets (which is why they are depicted as imitating Elijah’s sign of calling down fire). This is not literal fire or real power, but it identifies them as the same false Christs and false prophets Jesus described in Mat 24. The power they had was deciet which was the same strategy used by the long line on false prophets who assured God’s people they were safe (when they were anything but safe). Not only had they led Jerusalem in revolt against her Messiah almost a generation early, but during the war, they assured the people they were safe behind the Temple walls.

Verse 14 the Roman system of government was provincial, so Nero used the Sanhedrin to enforce emperor worship. He even demanded sacrifice to himself in the Temple (which they complied with in order to survive). This cooperation with Roman idolatry was one of the reasons the outlaw Zealots hated the Sanhedrin and the priesthood in Jerusalem. They thought the leaders of Jerusalem were blaspheming the Law of Moses in their cooperation with Roman religion. I already commented on the mark in the last post.

 

[ryanoneil]

Isn’t the Jewish generation that Jesus speaks about is the now generation which started in 1948, per Isaiah 66:7-8, but it was not totally restored until the Jews recaptured Jerusalem per Jesus in Luke 21:24. For the first time in 2500 years the Jews gained control of Jerusalem. God’s city, where Jesus will set His foot down on Mt. Olives when He returns per Zech 14:4? What is your take on all of this? ED O.

The Jewish generation Jesus spoke to was the people who were listening to him that day. Luke 21:24 speaks of Jews being killed and taken into captivity. Jerusalem is being trampled underfoot by the Romans. The early Judean Church believed the warning of Jesus and they fled. And they survived. There can be no clearer evidence of how the early Chrurch originally understood this passage. Jesus answered the question of when the destruction of the temple would be, from Mt 24:3. He gave His disciples everything they needed to recongnize the signs of the coming destruction. He predicted the Great Tribulation. He predicted He would come as a judge upon thier persecutors, the Sanhedrin, and He did. It all happened in the generation listening to Him that day.

As far as Zech 14:4, Christ’s greatest battle was won during the Passion. Just before it, Jesus was on the Mount of Olives with His disciples, sweating great drops of blood while he prayed. This night is the climax of Daniel’s last week, the halfway point during which the “firm covenant” would be made with New Israel (Dan 9:27).The splitting of the topography was understood by the early Church in much the same way as other apocalyptic literature. The great dynasties of the Jewish people were destroyed by the sacrifice of Christ, whom many rejected. Previous loyalties (Jew and Gentile) were superseded by two new groups of people (Christian and non-Christian). The Good Shepherd annulled the Old Covenant and the holy bloodline’s two staffs were broken (Zech 11:4-17). No longer would God concern Himself with a holy bloodline. The New Covenant would be spiritual rather than physical. As Christ himself stated that His family will be those who hear and obey His commandments.

 

[juliamajor]

One “Apocalypse”: a highly symbolic narrative that interprets a historical crisis and provides hope for a better future:

TThe Book of Revelation
a.k.a. The Revelation of Jesus Christ to John, or The Apocalypse
(but it should not be called “Revelations,” plural!)

Abbreviation: Rev (full text)
Attributed Author: “John” (1:1, 4, 9), a Jewish-Christian prophet; mostly likely not the brother of James, son of Zebedee, named in the Gospels, nor the authors of the “Fourth Gospel” and the “Johannine Epistles”
Named Recipients: “seven churches” in Asia Minor (1:4; 2:1-22)
Date: mid-90’s, near the end of the reign of Emperor Domitian (who died in 96 CE)
Where From: the Roman Province of Asia (possibly the city of Ephesus itself)
Authenticity: almost certainly by some early Christian named “John”
Unity & Integrity: a single work, but possibly composed in stages, incorporating some older apocalyptic materials
Literary Genre: an “apocalypse” (1:1; 4:1), with an epistolary frame (letter-like introduction & conclusion - 1:4; 22:21)
Language: highly symbolic Greek, including some Semitic influences
Purpose: to encourage Christians to preserve faith in the midst of trials and tribulations (cf. 13:10b; 14:12)
by Felix Just, S.J., Ph.D.

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Preliminary Description of “Apocalypse”:
In popular terminology today, an “apocalypse” is a catastrophic event (e.g., nuclear holocaust).
In biblical terminology, an “apocalypse” is not an event, but a “revelation” that is recorded in written form:
it is a piece of crisis literature that “reveals” truths about the past, present, and/or future in highly symbolic terms;
the revelation often comes in dreams or visions, and usually needs to be interpreted with the help of an angel;
it is usually intended to provide hope and encouragement for people in the midst of severe trials and tribulations.

Caution 1: “The Apocalypse” is an alternate name (used especially by Protestants) for the “Book of Revelation” in the NT.
Caution 2: “The Little Apocalypse” or “The Apocalyptic Discourse” are names sometimes given to Mark 13 (and parallel passages in Matt 24 and Luke 21), containing the teachings of Jesus about the future of Jerusalem and the end of the world.

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Scholarly Definition of “Apocalypse”(from the SBL’s “Apocalypse Group”; published in J. J. Collins, Semeia 14 [1979] 9):
" ‘Apocalypse’ is a genre of revelatory literature with a narrative framework,
in which a revelation is mediated by an otherworldly being to a human recipient,
disclosing a transcendent reality which is
both temporal, insofar as it envisages eschatological salvation,
and spatial insofar as it involves another, supernatural world."
Addition to the Definition, incorporating the purpose of the genre, from the suggestions of Hellholm (1982) & Aune (1986):
“.intended to interpret the present, earthly circumstances in light of the supernatural world and of the future,
and to influence both the understanding and the behavior of the audience by means of divine authority.”

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ubdivisions or Types of Apocalypses:
Apocalypses can be classified according to features in their CONTENT:
Some apocalypses contain “Otherworldly Journeys” (e.g., the seer is purportedly taken on a tour of heaven)
Others do not contain “Otherworldly Journeys” (e.g., while seeing heavenly things, the seer stays on earth)
Apocalypses can also be classified according to their primary REFERENTS:
Some apocalypses deal with Personal Eschatology (the death and after-life of individuals)
Others focus more on Ethnic or National Eschatology (the end of a nation or empire)
Many others contain Cosmic Eschatology (the ultimate end of the whole world)
Cautions:
Not every Apocalypse is purely eschatological (they may also interpret past or present events, not just the future).
Not all Eschatology is apocalyptic (some look forward to a future that is peaceful, not violent).
“Millennium” has two N’s (from Latin mille = 1000 and annus = year), while “Millenarian” has only one (simply mille plus a nominal ending)
“Millenium” (with one N) is not proper English spelling, but a very common misspelling (if it did exist, it would mean “1000” + “anus”!)

---

Apocalyptic Theology (new in the Books of Daniel and Revelation, and in post-biblical Jewish literature):
Reversal of Rewards and Punishments:
present world is still under the domination of evil forces and cruel empires (Dan 7:1-8, 15-25), but…
future age will be under the rule of God, the Messiah, and/or God’s holy people (7:9-14, 26-27).
Good People:
may be suffering now, due to evil cosmic forces; seem to be punished here on earth (Dan 9:3-14), but…
will be rewarded at the end of time, when God comes in judgment and vindicates the righteous (12:1-13).
Bad People:
may be prospering now, due to worldly powers; seem to be rewarded on earth (Dan 5:1-23; 8:1-25a), but…
will be punished at the end of time, when God comes in judgment and destroys all evil (5:24-30; 8:25b-26).
From www.catholic-resources.org
Felix Just SJ phd

 

[juliamajor]

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II) Daniel’s Apocalyptic Visions as related to Ancient Jewish History
Statue in Dan 2:31-45 Beasts of Dan 7:1-28 Ram & Goat of Dan 8:1-25 Empire
vv. 32a, 37-38:
head of gold vv. 4, 17:
lion w/ eagle’s wings -x- Babylonians
vv. 32b, 39a:
chest & arms of silver vv. 5, 17:
bear w/ three tusks vv. 3-4, 20:
ram w/ two horns Medes
vv. 32c, 39b:
middle & thighs of bronze vv. 6, 17:
leopard w/ 4 wings & 4 heads (same as above) Persians
vv. 33a, 40:
legs of iron vv. 7, 17, 19, 23:
terrifying beast w/ iron teeth. vv. 5-7, 21:
goat w/ one horn Greeks:
Alexander the Great
vv. 33b, 41-43:
feet partly iron, partly clay; vv. 20a, 24a:
and with 10 horns; vv. 8, 22:
it breaks & becomes four horns Ptolemies & Seleucids
-x- vv. 8, 20b-21, 24b-25:
another horn w/ arrogant mouth vv. 9-14a, 23-25d:
another horn acts arrogantly Antiochus IV Epiphanes
vv. 34-35, 44-45:
stone that becomes mountain 9-14, 18, 22, 26-27:
Ancient One & Son of Man vv. 14b, 25e: (restoration implicit; not by human hands) [God restores Israel forever]

Although their setting is during the Babylonian Exile (6th cent. BC), the stories actually stem from the 3rd and early 2nd centuries BC, and the whole book was compiled ca. 167-164 BC. While the book is mostly a first-person narrative by a certain “Daniel,” the real author is anonymous.

 

[juliamajor]

William Blake

The Great Red Dragon and the Woman Clothed with the Sun: ‘the Devil is come down’

Pen and watercolour,
408 x 337 mm

c.1805

Washington, DC, National Gallery of Art, Rosenwald Collection, 1943, Acc.No.1943.3.8999

 

[EdOsiecki]

Score a run? Apocalyptic does NOT mean “predicts the future.” Sorry. I think it’s a strikeout or foul ball at best.

Hi diggerdomer, you say Apocalyptic does NOT mean predicts the future. Merrian-Webster dictionary: Apocalyse == writing prophesying (predicting future) a cataclysm in which evil forces are destroyed. Now can I have my home run back that brb2 gave me on post 57? Also if you are reading this brb2, thanks for the home run. ED O.

 

[EdOsiecki]

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II) Daniel’s Apocalyptic Visions as related to Ancient Jewish History
Statue in Dan 2:31-45 Beasts of Dan 7:1-28 Ram & Goat of Dan 8:1-25 Empire
vv. 32a, 37-38:
head of gold vv. 4, 17:
lion w/ eagle’s wings -x- Babylonians
vv. 32b, 39a:
chest & arms of silver vv. 5, 17:
bear w/ three tusks vv. 3-4, 20:
ram w/ two horns Medes
vv. 32c, 39b:
middle & thighs of bronze vv. 6, 17:
leopard w/ 4 wings & 4 heads (same as above) Persians
vv. 33a, 40:
legs of iron vv. 7, 17, 19, 23:
terrifying beast w/ iron teeth. vv. 5-7, 21:
goat w/ one horn Greeks:
Alexander the Great
vv. 33b, 41-43:
feet partly iron, partly clay; vv. 20a, 24a:
and with 10 horns; vv. 8, 22:
it breaks & becomes four horns Ptolemies & Seleucids
-x- vv. 8, 20b-21, 24b-25:
another horn w/ arrogant mouth vv. 9-14a, 23-25d:
another horn acts arrogantly Antiochus IV Epiphanes
vv. 34-35, 44-45:
stone that becomes mountain 9-14, 18, 22, 26-27:
Ancient One & Son of Man vv. 14b, 25e: (restoration implicit; not by human hands) [God restores Israel forever]

Although their setting is during the Babylonian Exile (6th cent. BC), the stories actually stem from the 3rd and early 2nd centuries BC, and the whole book was compiled ca. 167-164 BC. While the book is mostly a first-person narrative by a certain “Daniel,” the real author is anonymous.

Hi juliamajor, if I recall correctly in your last response to my last post you left because you were sick? If so, I hope all is well now with you. In answer to this post and the previous one #94, I don’t like when two full pages is thrown at me. I’m a slow reader and by the time I finish reading it all, I forget what we are discussing. It could be next month before I can answer some of it. Will that be okay with you? Hereafter, a couple sentences or paragraphs at a time is more my speed. Thanks. ED O.

 

[diggerdomer]

Hi diggerdomer, you say Apocalyptic does NOT mean predicts the future. Merrian-Webster dictionary: Apocalyse == writing prophesying (predicting future) a cataclysm in which evil forces are destroyed. Now can I have my home run back that brb2 gave me on post 57? Also if you are reading this brb2, thanks for the home run. ED O.

Merriam Webster is fine for secular understandings. Please see this version’s definition number one that is more appropriate for Scripture study reference.

Sorry, still an “out”

 

[EdOsiecki]

Merriam Webster is fine for secular understandings. Please see this version’s definition number one that is more appropriate for Scripture study reference.

Sorry, still an “out”

Hi diggerdomer, thanks for that dictionary’s version but as I read it, it’s saying the same thing as I mention only in reverse. Their one is my two. Thanks anyway since there was other informationon on that page which caught my interest. ED O.