How do Catholics interpret the Book of Revelation?

[diggerdomer]

Hi diggerdomer, thanks for that dictionary’s version but as I read it, it’s saying the same thing as I mention only in reverse. Their one is my two. Thanks anyway since there was other informationon on that page which caught my interest. ED O.

Their definition one was completely different from what you said. Catholic Biblical scholars (and teachers, and Bishops) would agree with the link I posted #1 definition regarding the genre of “Apocalypse.” The would not agree that apocalyptic literature means primarily (or even simply) “predicting the future.” If you disagree, can you show us anything from Church teaching that agrees with how you choose to interpret “apocalyptic”?

By the way, I have no problem if you, as a Catholic, choose to interpret it that way. I only have a problem if you choose to impose your thought on all Catholics as authoritative, because it’s different from mainstream Catholic Scripture scholarship and teaching.

 

[EdOsiecki]

Their definition one was completely different from what you said. Catholic Biblical scholars (and teachers, and Bishops) would agree with the link I posted #1 definition regarding the genre of “Apocalypse.” The would not agree that apocalyptic literature means primarily (or even simply) “predicting the future.” If you disagree, can you show us anything from Church teaching that agrees with how you choose to interpret “apocalyptic”?

By the way, I have no problem if you, as a Catholic, choose to interpret it that way. I only have a problem if you choose to impose your thought on all Catholics as authoritative, because it’s different from mainstream Catholic Scripture scholarship and teaching.

Thanks for your reply diggerdomer. I hate to loose my home run when I think I’m right. Okay! Let’s disregard all the mumbo jumbo, I’m asking you to tell me what the word Apocalypse means. ED O.

 

[JustMe88]

Hi diggerdomer, you say Apocalyptic does NOT mean predicts the future. Merrian-Webster dictionary: Apocalyse == writing prophesying (predicting future) a cataclysm in which evil forces are destroyed. Now can I have my home run back that brb2 gave me on post 57? Also if you are reading this brb2, thanks for the home run. ED O.

From The End workbook, pages 8-9:
Apocalypsis, in 1st century Jewish life, meant unveiling. It referred to the point in a wedding ceremony where a bride “revealed” herself to her groom, in the inner room of the wedding canopy. This was the moment of consummation of the union between the lover and the beloved.

As for the meaning of Revelation as a whole, it would seem to have been totally fulfilled in 70 AD with the burning of Jerusalem, what is called the prederist interpretation.

As someone who, for many years, followed all the “prophetic” ministries and received all the newsletters and such, I finally figured out NO ONE could seem to agree with someone else’s interpretation and they all had the key to the answer. Finally I gave up, and with the Grace of God found Dr. Hahn’s The End series and listened 4 times (it’s 12 cd’s). FINALLY something made sense and actually gave answers to the questions I had.

 

[diggerdomer]

Thanks for your reply diggerdomer. I hate to loose my home run when I think I’m right. Okay! Let’s disregard all the mumbo jumbo, I’m asking you to tell me what the word Apocalypse means. ED O.

revelation.

Or, “uncovering”

 

[pipper]

revelation.

Or, “uncovering”

Diggerdomer, you seem to be laboring under the delusion that Ed is Catholic. He is nothing of the sort. In fact in the headers that come with evry one of his posts he lists his religion as “etc” what ever that means.

 

[diggerdomer]

Diggerdomer, you seem to be laboring under the delusion that Ed is Catholic. He is nothing of the sort. In fact in the headers that come with evry one of his posts he lists his religion as “etc” what ever that means.

I recognized that, thanks.

 

[EdOsiecki]

From The End workbook, pages 8-9:
Apocalypsis, in 1st century Jewish life, meant unveiling. It referred to the point in a wedding ceremony where a bride “revealed” herself to her groom, in the inner room of the wedding canopy. This was the moment of consummation of the union between the lover and the beloved.

As for the meaning of Revelation as a whole, it would seem to have been totally fulfilled in 70 AD with the burning of Jerusalem, what is called the prederist interpretation.

As someone who, for many years, followed all the “prophetic” ministries and received all the newsletters and such, I finally figured out NO ONE could seem to agree with someone else’s interpretation and they all had the key to the answer. Finally I gave up, and with the Grace of God found Dr. Hahn’s The End series and listened 4 times (it’s 12 cd’s). FINALLY something made sense and actually gave answers to the questions I had.

Hi JustMe88 thanks for your reply. I too, have been very interested in the End Time prophecy. There are too many Scriptures in Revelation and other parts of the Bible that makes me a premillennialists. I would very much like to have you post a summary of Dr. Hahn’s series. ED O.

 

[EdOsiecki]

revelation.

Or, “uncovering”

Thanks for your reply diggerdomer. Yes “revealing” what’s coming ahead. Rev.22:20, “He who has said all these things declares: Yes, I am coming soon”. Amen! Come, Lord Jesus! ED O.

 

[ryanoneil]

I too, have been very interested in the End Time prophecy. There are too many Scriptures in Revelation and other parts of the Bible that makes me a premillennialists. I would very much like to have you post a summary of Dr. Hahn’s series. ED O.

Have you ever heard of the ideas presented in post #92-3. What do you think? I can’t really speak to Dr. Hahn’s series, but I think my posts are in line with his teaching.

 

[diggerdomer]

Thanks for your reply diggerdomer. Yes “revealing” what’s coming ahead. Rev.22:20, “He who has said all these things declares: Yes, I am coming soon”. Amen! Come, Lord Jesus! ED O.

I didn’t say “what’s coming ahead”, that’s not part of what “apocalypse” necessarily means.

 

[ryanoneil]

Hi ryanoneil thanks for your reply. What is your take on all of this? ED O.

Hi Ed. Just wondering if you have any time to respond to my take on all this?

 

[Monkey_Fortune]

I think that there have been many attempts to understand or decode the passages from the book of revelation through both a literal and symbolic approach.
However, in recent years I feel fairly certain that the most obvious implications of its meaning may have pointed to a very real and singular vindication.
There are a growing number of people in the public spotlight, some of whom have financial backing to the tune of hundreds of millions of pounds that claim that the governments of the world are in the planning stages of a landmark event the will bring in a new era of religion, hosted by a group of astral beings that claim to the original gods of men.
As impossible as that sounds, there are millions of people around the world who faithfully await the earthly reign of The Casserole Masters.
The possibility of this has been verified by NASA.

Information in regard to the validity of these claims can be found all over the internet.

casserolemasters.blip.tv/

 

[diggerdomer]

I think that there have been many attempts to understand or decode the passages from the book of revelation through both a literal and symbolic approach.
However, in recent years I feel fairly certain that the most obvious implications of its meaning may have pointed to a very real and singular vindication.
There are a growing number of people in the public spotlight, some of whom have financial backing to the tune of hundreds of millions of pounds that claim that the governments of the world are in the planning stages of a landmark event the will bring in a new era of religion, hosted by a group of astral beings that claim to the original gods of men.
As impossible as that sounds, there are millions of people around the world who faithfully await the earthly reign of The Casserole Masters.
The possibility of this has been verified by NASA.

Information in regard to the validity of these claims can be found all over the internet.

casserolemasters.blip.tv/

What bearing does this have on a Catholic understanding of the book of Revelation?

 

[DPMartin]

In order to understand the Book of Revelation I believe one has to look at God’s plan first. Which is expressed in the OT. For what is taught and shown in the OT is what is to be fulfilled. We know where. The Lord has said how, but full understanding seems to be not there. And we don’t know when but the Lord has given us Words to bring us warning when it’s about time.

And again one must understand it is God’s Will to restore mankind to the place man was before the fall of Adam. This is what God is doing, what man is doing is another issue.

When David went to the brook to get his stones he selected five stones (note we are to know this) and the sling and the stones that are not formed with the hands of man has many references in Scripture. The five stones place in to the bag David carried is one point.

Adam, Noah, Abraham, David, Jesus Christ, the fith stone that takes away the reproach of God’s People.

1Sam:17:26: And David spake to the men that stood by him, saying, What shall be done to the man that killeth this Philistine, and taketh away the reproach from Israel? for who is this uncircumcised Philistine, that he should defy the armies of the living God?

Note David (as far as we know) used only one of the five selected stones.

And we now know that all fulfillment of the Will of God is through Jesus Christ. And taketh away the reproach from Israel (God’s People)

And we also know the next thing to happen in the Lord is His return to take the Throne that God established with King David.

So walk backwards so to speak, Jesus returns (King David), after what is considered the millennium full revelation of Father Son and Holy Spirit (Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) judgement of all souls, then new heaven and new earth, (Noah), and the fulfillment of God’s Will.

Rv:21:7: He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Wich is the restoration of what Adam was before the fall:

Luke:3:
38: Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

The whole thing is about the fulfillment of God’s Word. Of which no one has the power to do, nor prevent.

On the efforts to understand if we are facing the coming of the Lord, we should understand that we are always are facing the Coming of the Lord. A teaching from the Apostles on.

(Continued…)

 

[DPMartin]

But is the time ripe?

---

When the united nations agreed to let there be a nation state Israel, after WWII, they referred it as the “Fig Tree State”. Note then they saw it as a solution, but now they see it as a problem they wish they didn’t have.

This is a few tidbits that may show that the time might be nearer then we think. We are not talking about the end of the world, we are talking about the Lord Jesus Christ Himself taking possession of the world as King of the world.

Now what happen in 1967 in Israel was the three day war where the Lord God gave victory in that Israel toke possession of the land that is normally consider Israel. Also in that same year Jerusalem became the capital of Israel and another note, Russia officially broke off diplomatic relations with the state of Israel.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967

There are many scholars of scripture prophecy that are convinced that Russia is the descendants of Gog and Magog. And it is the way of the Lord in Scripture to address geographical areas or nations by the name of is forefathers.

As far as the time

Dan:12:

1: And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2: And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3: And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
4: But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
5: Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.
6: And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
7: And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

now for the sake of possibly ( this not to say this is so, but). The only time that I am aware of in the Bible is the time from Adam to the Flood. And by most scholars “a time, times, and an half” means 3.5 times.

I didn’t list the names only the numbers:

Adam
130
105 235
90 325
70 395
65 460
162 622
65 687
187 874
182 1056
600 Flood

1656 total
1656 * 3.5 = 5796

so in Hebrew years this would be year 5796 which is in AD years is 2036. There are two Hebrew calenders one Rabbinical and the other Karaite Hebrew Calendars. One of these can be as much as 33 days in difference to the Gregorian calendar.

A quicky explanation:
fascinatingtales.wordpress.com/2010/03/13/a-short-comparison-of-the-rabbinical-and-karaite-hebrew-calendars/

but this of itself doesn’t mean much but there is the question of what will the world be doing?

It is believed by the Jews in their commentaries in the torah (sorry I don’t remember where) that they believe that it will take 6000 years but in the same commentary it is said that the world will think to protect itself from the heavens, and the power of God.

Hence the Apophis: The Asteroid That Could Smash Into The Earth on Friday, April 13th, 2036:

deepastronomy.com/apophis-asteroid-could-hit-earth.html

though the science of the west doesn’t see consern the Russians (Gog/Magog) do:

rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes;read=163958

hiddenmysteries.net/gltest/article.php?story=20100103091918650

And it is feared that it’s effects could be from 2029-2036, 7 years, interesting to say the least. And Russia has proposed to take initiatives to plan a protection from the effects of this potential Asteroid and calls for other nations to join them. Ether way, it’s there. Not saying that there is anything to this but it sure is coincidental.

 

[curtish1947]

To me,

Here in your posts there is seen a type of logic. One of the names for this logic is called Circular Reasoning. (I will let you look up that and it’s 10 other names for the same concept.) It is conclusions, based on an idea that is not proven.

The way this happens is, an un-proven idea is taken, as true. When no one notices then huge amounts of words, ideas and books are written on the results of the idea which was never true in the first place.

On the topic of Revelation, until (and this is easy to do), The Lord in context is understood as Jesus says this and David understands this, then Revelation is complex.

So, not to give the answers, but to show you how to do it, to calibrate the words in the Bible, use what Jesus says. Then go to work to see what it means.

Later, use anything God says as absolute. When He, God, says it, it is.

Now, when you decode the following that Jesus said; He said: ‘When David was speaking in The Spirit (God The Holy Spirit), he said The Lord (God The Father), said to My Lord (God the Son), sit here at my right side until I make your enemies a footstool… Who was he speaking of?’; when you decode that into God The Father;, God The Holy Spirit;, and God the Son;, when you do that, then much in the Bible is easy to read. (Also you’ll notice how all of what you do correctly makes you say the very same things the most advanced Theologians and Saints say is true.)

Simply put, when Jesus said 'that David speaking under the power and influence of The Holy Spirit said: “The Lord said to my Lord…” ';Jesus calibrated these words for us.

The second calibration of the Old Testament, that is germane for this piece of work, is that Jesus said What was said of Him in The Book of Moses, The Psalms, and The Prophets had to come true. He calibrated for us, where to find passages about Him. In other words, Jesus said: ~ If you want, look in these books, you will find much that is written about Me there.~

Calibrate, prove, the words and Circular Reasoning and all its forms is now defeated. It does not exist.

There are other passages, which tell us God’s meaning of the words in The Bible. One is very important. It is the idea that “Us made man in His Own image”. This combined with our own knowlege of us, and science’s own proven knowlege of us, lets us understand ourselves and God, as being in image, definitely, like Him.

More easily put, The Bible says: “In the name of The Father, and The Son, and The Holy Spirt” at the same time it says there is only one God. Decode that. What does it mean?
When you are done, it means our triple nature and God’s triple nature are the same in kind only, not in magnitude or ability.

(Here’s the hard part. We are three in one. It is well documented in a branch of science called Transactional Analysis. Science there, in Transactional Anaylysis, shows the three in one nature of every human that is proven and used to stabalize minds which are confused by that lack of understanding. Many people use this knowlege without having a name for it. Most of us say " The kid in me, or, the adult in me, or the parent in me" without ever thinking of the whole idea. That is using, part of the fact that we are three in one. The actual amount and similarity ends not with the characteristics, in all of us and God, but, not in the magnitude, diversity and abilities of God. We are similar only in that we have a kid in us (Not begotten yet), an adult in us (which is not sent off to do things), and a parent in us(which does monitor and control the other two). Until you recognize and prove that you are three in one, then much of the Bible is not understandable to you, in the compex issues. The easy stuff, which is the important stuff is always understood, when you have done your part, which is said Yes to God in all His Ways. The complex comes when you are tasked with it, which may be now for you.)

If you can handle all the above, if you have done the work, if you have the experience, or, if you know all the above by some other method, then simply substitutee God’s meaning of the words over your own. Then read Psalms 1, Pslams 2. If you can understand then what Jesus says there, by His word definitions, Revelation becomes easy also.

If you cannot understand, then, you do not yet have the prerequisites to understand the complex in The Bible. To understand the complex, first get all the pre-requisites mastered, then the complex is not.

…Curt…

 

[TimothyH]

Also you are critical of the “left Behind” and “Late, Great Planet Earth” calling it baloney but you don’t give me any reason why? ED.

Ed, I hope you will take the time to read this post. It explains the theological sloppiness of the Left Behind and Late Great Planet Earth rature theories.

“Left Behind” and the general subject of Evangelical rapture theology, wherein true believers will supposedly be taken up to heaven with Jesus in the clouds and all the bad guys will be left behind, is loosely based on the following bible verses;

***“So it will be also at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be out in the field; one will be taken, and one will be left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be take, and one will be left.” *(Matthew 24:39-41)

I tell you, on that night there will be two people in one bed; one will be taken, the other left. And there will be two women grinding meal together; one will be taken, the other left. (Luke 17:34-35)

The idea is that the good guys will get taken away by Jesus and the bad guys will get “Left behind”. Where to the good guys, the true believers in Christ supposed to go?

For the Lord himself, with a word of command, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God, will come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. (1 Thessalonians 4:16:17)

The reference to meeting Jesus in the air has to do with the custom in biblical times wherin the dignitaries and residents of a usually walled and gated city would go out and meet a visiting king or military leader as he approached. It was to this custom that Paul was referencing when he said that we would meet the Lord in the air.

The problem is that the residents of the city would then turn around and escort the king or military leader back to the city. Rapture theology on the other hand, teaches that instead of escorting Jesus back to earth at his second coming, that Jesus will stop a mile or so above the earth, we will go out to meet him, he will make a 108 degree turn and head back to heaven. This is inconsistent with the historical custom to which St. Paul was referencing and probably the exact reverse of the author’s original intent.

Believers in the rapture cite Matthew 24 and Luke 17 (above) as proof texts, arguing that Jesus himself predicted the rapture when he said, “one will be take, and one will be left.”

We need to look at the full context of Jesus’ statement however. If we back up a few verses in Matthew 24…

For as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. In those days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day that Noah entered the ark. They did not know until the flood came and carried them away. So will it be also at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be out in the field; one will be taken, and one will be left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken, and one will be left. (Matthew 24: 37-41)

Jesus’ statement about one being left and the other taken away were an historical reference to the Old Testament account of Noah and the flood, something with which his audience, as devout Jews, would have been intimately familiar. So what happened during the flood which Jesus is referencing? The good guys - Noah and his family - were “Left behind” and the bad guys were “carried away by the flood.” Jesus says the good guys will be left behind and rapture theology says that the bad guys will be left behind. Again, rapture theology has it not only wrong, but 100% reversed of what the bible actually says!

And Jesus was not speaking about the end of the world anyway. He was speaking about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD when the believers in Christ, the good guys were able to escape and the Jews who refused to believe in Christ were killed.

Catholicism has always taught that there is one ressurection of the body at the end of te world.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. (John 6:54)

Jesus says that he will raise us on the “Last day”. Paul was referecing this last day when he says in 1 Thessalonians that the “Dead in Christ will rise first” and go out to meet Jesus. Rapture theology and the Left Behind series believe that the dead in 1 Thessalonians will rise first, then they, along with the faithful, will meet Jesus in the clouds and all go up to Heaven. Rapture theologians further tell us, based on passages from the Book of Revelation, that there will then be a 1000 year reign of Christ followed by a tribulation and then the end of the world.

This begs the following question; **If the dead rise and go to meet Jesus in the clouds and then there is a 1000 year reign followed by a seven year tribulation, how is it that Jesus will raise us “On the last day?” **Are there two ressurections, one at the rapture which Paul talks about and one on the “Last Day” which Jesus talks about? Did they not consult each other? Did Jesus really mean to say, “Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day before the rapture.”? Were they all just speaking symbolically?

And what about the second coming of Christ? Jesus came first to die die for our sins and he will come again to judge the living and the dead at the end of time. Is there to be a third, partial coming of Christ, where he stops just short, only to turn around again and bring the faithful to heaven before the tribulation and the real, full second coming at the end of time?

It doesn’t make sense.

-Tim-

 

[SnakeMauler]

The book of revelation is not supposed to be a code that some douche 2,000 years later is supposed to crack and write a “left behind” series about to make money. Scripture isn’t written to not be understood or cracked for thousands of years that dumb and paranoid.

 

[diggerdomer]

In order to understand the Book of Revelation I believe one has to look at God’s plan first. Which is expressed in the OT.

I think I understand what you are saying, and would probably agree with it, except I would say that Christians have to look at Jesus Christ first, and not what is expressed in the Old Testament.

In other words, Christians don’t primarily look to the Old Testament to interpret or understand Christ, but rather, look to Christ in order to properly understand or interpret the Old Testament.

 

[IndigoDreamz]

jmcrae thanks for your reply, what concerns me is that some claim that the 17th and 18th chapters of Revelation depicts the Roman Catholic church. Her residence is the city of seven hills Rev 17:9 which would be Vatican/Rome. And in Rev 18:4 it states, people are to come out of her (whoever her is) to avoid being punished. I take this to mean it’s serious business to know who to come out of. So it’s not to be taken so lightly. ED

That passage is better interpreted as MOUNTAINS, rather than ‘Hills’. Mountains, in the Bible, is many times referencing large land masses. So the 7 Mountains could actually mean the 7 continents, or has spread worldwide, on every continent. The removal of God and His true words are being removed from everywhere, and living in ones indulgences is taking root, rather than living for God and His commandments.

Just a thought.