How do Catholics keep from putting Mary above Christ?

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Thanks for the additional analogy, AggieCatholic86 and for your insights, EvangelCatholic.
I get the impression that perhaps The Lutherans are one of the closest protestant churches to Catholicism in terms of rites and practices.
You won’t hear the Hail Mary in Lutheran churches [yes, in religious communities/ seminaries]. Luther and the Augsburg confession profess belief in the “pure and holy Virgin Mary” but Marian devotion is rare among Lutherans.
 
Hi everyone,
I was just listening to my local Catholic radio station where I listen to Catholic Answers Live. However, I missed it and tuned in to hear a half hour of continuous Rosary recitations. It was beautiful but troubling to me in a way because it brought back an unpleasant old memory that I will describe below. The way they alternated from men praying the Rosary to women while intejecting music at times was mesmerizing and pretty. However, it made me wonder the following:

How do good Catholics draw the line between venerating Mary and uplifting her so high that her importance equals and competes with that of Christ, God the Father, and the Holy Spirirt?

Unpleasant memory:
Several years ago I was traveling in South America. I remember visiting a prominent park situated on a big hill in Santiago, Chile, (or at least I believe it was Santiago). Toward the bottom of the hill, there was a section of small statues of some saints. About half-way up the hill there was a big statue of Jesus, which I thought was very nice. However, when we got to the top of the hill, there was a gigantic statue of the Virgin Mary with lots of candles and other stuff adorning it.

It made me wonder and I thought to myself, “These folks love Mary more than Christ”.

Having been on this forum for almost a month, I know there are a lot of Catholics who venerate Mary and love and serve God and Christ strongly and sincerely with their whole hearts. I’ve interacted with many of you.

Can you explain how you keep from putting Mary in a higher position than Christ in your life? To me, that sounds like it could be a challenge for Catholics.
I have two favorite icons of Mary, Mary Star of the Sea and Our Lady of Guadalupe.

For.me, a convert from atheism, I keep a mental picture of Jesus as on my horizon. That helps me in my daily hope to follow Him. I can contemplate whether or not what I have done, or failed to do, is in keeping with ky internal vision of Jesus as my destination.

Mary is my Star, like a mariner who uses the stars for navigation, she guides me to her Son. Veneration of Mary would be as you fear, if our veneration stopped.with her. But it doesn’t. We are worshipping Jesus, in our veneration of Mary as all.is centered on Him.

Our Lady of Guadalupe is responsible for the conversion of an entire continent. This miracle from God is not forgotten south of the U.S. border. Mary holds an extra special place among the hearts of Latin Americans. In Mexico Our Lady of Guadalupe.ia.comparable to how Americans feel about the Stars and Stripes. A deep national love for Mary, even among some non Catholics. This hyper devotion can appear to outsiders and even some American Catholics as over the top. However, there is also a deep understanding of what Mary did for the Americas. She brought an entire population of a continent to Christ.

The understanding of Mary’s role in our salvation is where our love and devotion for her is rooted. She not only brought an entire continent to Christ, she brought Jesus into the world for all. We view Mary as worthy of our devotions, because of God’s work of salvation, through her willing participation.

Being a willing participant in God’s work among the world, is what all Christians are called to do.
 
More comments on our freedom to call on Mary  
  1. This intimate communion in the Spirit is not broken by death. As the Catholics and
    Lutherans in our dialogue stated in an earlier round: “The fellowship of those sanctified, the ‘holy
    ones’ or saints, includes believers both living and dead. There is thus a solidarity of the church
    throughout the world with the church triumphant.”299 This solidarity across the barrier of death is
    particularly evident in the Eucharist, which is always celebrated in unity with the hosts of heaven.
    In Catholic Eucharistic Prayer II, the celebrant introduces the Sanctus with the words: “And so wejoin the angels and the saints in proclaiming your glory as we say. . . .”300 The Prefaces in
    Evangelical Lutheran Worship end with the declaration: “And so, with all the choirs of angels, with
    the church on earth and the hosts of heaven, we praise your name and join their unending hymn. .
    . .”301 Particularly in praise and adoration of God at the Lord’s table, the apparent division marked
    by death melts away. Lutherans and Catholics can together affirm what the Lutherans said in an
    earlier round of this dialogue that:
    [F]aith does not mean individualism, but rather a being born anew into the
    communion of believers, the body of Christ which is the church. As members of the church,
    believers participate by grace in the divine Trinitarian life—in a “mystical union” (unio
    mystica) that anticipates the full future glory of Christ “beheld with an unveiled face” (2 Cor.
    3:18; cf. 5:1-10 and Rom. 8:20-30 in the context of 8:18-39).302
  2. The most important statement from Luther comes in his “Confession Concerning Christ’s
    Supper” where he writes: “As for the dead, since Scripture gives us no information on the subject,
    I regard it as no sin to pray with free devotion in this or some similar fashion: ‘Dear God, if this soul
    is in a condition accessible to mercy be thou gracious to it.’ And when this has been done once or
    twice, let it suffice.”320
    usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/ecumenical-and-interreligious/ecumenical/lutheran/upload/The-Hope-of-Eternal-Life1.pdf
 
I am new to Catholicism, taking an Inquiry class and planning to start RCIA in the Fall. The one and only thing I am really struggling with is Marian Doctrine, but having accepted the authority of the Church, I have to accept their beliefs and practices on Mary. My will is there, but my head and heart are still working on it. What speaks to you may be different than what speaks to me, but here’s what I’m focusing on:

I already know that the Bible says in Luke that all generations will call Mary blessed. I know that she found such favor in God’s eyes that He chose her to carry His son. God apparently thought she was pretty special so I should, too. God commands us to honor our parents. Mary was Jesus’ parent. If Jesus honors her, I should, too.

In the book, “Rome Sweet Home,” Kimberly Hahn talks about her difficulties with Mary. She came to realize that what Protestants call “worship” is not what Catholics call it. Once she got that straightened out in her head, she didn’t feel like Catholics were “worshipping” Mary. “Protestants defined worship as songs, prayers and a sermon… Catholics defined worship as the sacrifice of the Body and Blood of Jesus.” Her explanation of this helped me a lot with my uneasiness about “worshipping” Mary (and the Saints, too).

I’ve also thought a lot about God the father and God the son. And I’ve thought about the human family unit which works best with a mother and father and children. Certainly many of us were raised in one parent families, but I think we all realize the ideal model has both a mother and a father. Is God going to leave us in a single-parent household? Or has he given us a Mother, too? I haven’t read this concept anywhere, but it seems to be something that came to my mind that is helping me to accept the possibility that the Catholic teachings about Mary may be true.

I’ve read a lot about Mary as the Ark of the Covenant. Looking at her in that light has helped me to understand the devotion she is due as the new Ark who contained the new covenant of Jesus. Clearly, the Ark was considered Holy by the Israelites and looking at Mary in the same way makes a lot of sense to me.

I’ve begun praying the Rosary regularly hoping that will help with my understanding of Mary. It seems to me, the Hail Marys of the rosary are just a type of mantra to use while meditating on the life of Jesus. Meditating on Jesus’ life is beneficial, and I had to go to my Bible to refresh my memory about the details of some of the events in His life. Reading my Bible is never a bad thing.

Even the prayer itself doesn’t pose the problems for me that I thought it would once I actually read it. “Hail Mary, full of grace” is the same way the angel Gabriel greeted her in Luke. And Elizabeth, while filled with the Holy Spirit said, “Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb,” also in Luke. And “Holy Mary” makes sense to me in light of her position as the new Ark and because she found such favor with God. “Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death” was an issue until my Inquiry instructor explained that the Body of Christ is not just those living, but all believers who have gone before, too. The dead are still part of the body of Christ, and the saints are those all-stars who have done a particularly fantastic job here on earth. In the same way we would ask a living Christian friend to pray for us, we can ask a deceased Christian friend. And wouldn’t we usually prefer to ask our most devout friends, those closest to the Lord to pray for us rather than the lukewarm ones?
 
Beautiful post, Rebecca.

Hi Tommy, and am happy you will be going to your first Mass.

About the negative experience you had overseas, first you were most likely taught we worship Mary. I have seen the Watchtower Magazines and the writers must have angst when they cannot provide a picture like a person with the rosary praying before a statue like I saw in one…or an article proving how wrong the Church is.

What would happen to these congregations if there were no Catholic Church!!! How would they prove they are right?!

You also must note that the Protestants provided their own translations. The Geneva Bible is of Calvinist strain and the one written in the mid 1500’s uses wording, that referred to ‘vain repetitions’. That is the Bible quote from their bible they use to address the practice of the rosary.

So it is important for you to know that the Church uses the Septuagint interpretation of Scripture, called the Lord’s Scripture, that was followed and used by the Apostles and St. Paul. Some famous literature from the 1800’s English has had to be translated over 2000 times to get the right intent in reading. And the apostles warned not to change, delete or add one word of Scripture…because such a minor change causes tremendous upheaval to the Mystical Body of Christ, where we are constantly being called to communion, the contrary – divisions, not the fruit of Jesus Christ. Catholics consume the Word in Liturgy of Word and Eucharist, the fulfillment of taking from the Tree of Life, the good fruit Adam and Eve did not taste to grow in divine spirituality.

So back to your experience you had overseas, I have to be practical here. You speak of the placement of statues on the grounds. There were statues at the bottom, the mid section had one of Christ, and then up the hill, there was an large shrine of Mary with candles lit, giving the appearance that people were more active on focusing on her than on Christ. One would have to go back and study the history of the placement of statues and ask why Mary was placed up high, had more active devotion. That is the only way to find out. But it does not mean either that they were giving more honor to her.

Mary said ‘yes’, and followed by her Magnificat’, "My doth magnify the Lord, my Savior, Who has done great things to me.’

She didn’t say praise Him for being chosen to be His mother. She magnifies Him…like think of a magnifying glass that probes and ponders, and then comes to Him, and enlargens Him to all to see that is evident and resplendent in the Lord…that otherwise ordinary people could not see of Christ our Lord.

It has been said that the strongest Catholics are those who are devoted to Mary. She brings us into intimacy with Christ, she brings us closer and quicker to Him, she is Jacob’s Ladder, that shortens the climb…Recall Psalm 24… who is worthy to climb the mountain of the Lord. The Carmelite tradition considers the mountain a symbol of our sins. We have to overcome our own sinfulness and failings to reach the summit of Christ, the top of the hill so to speak in relating to your past experience of Mary.

Outwardly it may appear to you that the shrines put Mary on top, when on the contrary Mary magnifies the Lord. All the devotion and thanksgiving for her intercession, her being immediately defrays it from herself and directs it solely to Our Lord.

Mary brings us into deep and subtle reflections on the Lord. She is known for protecting people’s hearts and hope from breaking through her intercession.

As Rebecca shared, Mary Star of the Sea along with Mother of God because Jesus is God, are the most ancient titles given her. We are in this vale of darkness and our Blessed Mother illumines Christ and His will in our pilgrimage towards heaven.

Mary has great power over Satan. When Mary of Guadalupe appeared in Mexico, soon after the Turks were invading Europe and hoping to make it Islamic. The pope received a copy of the image, prayed the rosary, asked all the Catholics to pray with him, and the Battle of Lepanto was won with her intercession, and the Turks blown back out to sea. For some reason they did not return, but there were thousands upon thousands of military casualties.

So the shrine you saw may have been an expression for the great help Mary gave those people, but it is not to be perceived that this devotion to her is side lining Christ. Everything we extend to her she acknowledges it done in Christ’s name.

The devotion to Mary goes way back. just as we show veneration to American president’s mothers, so much more for Christ’s mother. In the catacomb of Priscilla in Rome, around the first part of the year 200, one can see the very first painting of her…painted on the wall. She is not alone, but has the Christ Child on her lap.

In this same image, 'at the left, the figure of a man pointing to a star, located above the Virgin with child: a prophet, probably Balaam, who announced that “a star shall come forth out of Jacob, and a scepter shall rise out of Israel” (Num 24:17). This is the whole expectation of the Old Covenant and the cry of a fallen humanity for a savior and redeemer.

This prophecy was fulfilled in the birth of Jesus, the incarnate Son of God, conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. Mary brought Him into the world and gave him to all mankind. For this reason she is the purest image of the Church’. Source: Catechism of the Catholic Church.

In this image we as Church likewise believe that in Christ we learn about who Mary is and in Mary we learn about who Christ is.
 
Hi everyone,
I was just listening to my local Catholic radio station where I listen to Catholic Answers Live. However, I missed it and tuned in to hear a half hour of continuous Rosary recitations. It was beautiful but troubling to me in a way because it brought back an unpleasant old memory that I will describe below. The way they alternated from men praying the Rosary to women while intejecting music at times was mesmerizing and pretty. However, it made me wonder the following:

How do good Catholics draw the line between venerating Mary and uplifting her so high that her importance equals and competes with that of Christ, God the Father, and the Holy Spirirt?

Unpleasant memory:
Several years ago I was traveling in South America. I remember visiting a prominent park situated on a big hill in Santiago, Chile, (or at least I believe it was Santiago). Toward the bottom of the hill, there was a section of small statues of some saints. About half-way up the hill there was a big statue of Jesus, which I thought was very nice. However, when we got to the top of the hill, there was a gigantic statue of the Virgin Mary with lots of candles and other stuff adorning it.

It made me wonder and I thought to myself, “These folks love Mary more than Christ”.

Having been on this forum for almost a month, I know there are a lot of Catholics who venerate Mary and love and serve God and Christ strongly and sincerely with their whole hearts. I’ve interacted with many of you.

Can you explain how you keep from putting Mary in a higher position than Christ in your life? To me, that sounds like it could be a challenge for Catholics.
Tommy, I don’t really have anything to add here. The subject has been covered very well. I just wanted to say that I admire your openness to the Catholic perspective. It is evident that you are an authentic seeker of truth.

May god bless you abundantly.

Steve
 
Bible Christians, and no offense to the original poster, have a very hard time wrapping their heads around the fact God PERSONALLY chose Mary. I’ve heard them say “He could’ve picked any girl”. BUT HE DIDN’T. He chose Mary for the 1 purpose.

To the OP, welcome and may God bless.🙂
And, the Lord did not look out over the face of the earth for a suitable woman, as today’s dumbed-down theology likes to think. Rather, He first conceived of Mary in the Divine intellect even before creation. Granting her a full measure of human dignity, He also willed that she receive the greatest of all human honors: that of giving her flesh to the Word - of carrying the Word, God Himself, within her and nourishing His human nature. We are called to be like God. If He honored His mother, obeying His own commandment, should not we do the same?
 
Thanks to everyone for your posts. You are awesome. Thank you Rebecca for the story about Mexico. To KathleenGee, you have been helpful on other questions of mine as well and seem to be very mature in the faith :), and SteveVH, thanks for the kind words. I sense I know you somehow because you seem to know my heart.

Each one of you has helped me better to understand the proper place of Mary in Catholicism. I especially can relate to the path you are on, whatsmyname, although I think you are ahead of me on the path.

I have not come to the point yet as to whether I will pursue Catholicism beyond tonight’s visit to Mass, but I feel led to go tonight to see a Mass in person. With God’s help, I will take it one step at a time and reassess after that. Please pray that God’s will be done in my life, if you don’t mind. I appreciate it and I appreciate all of you in the Lord.
 
So correct a response…obedience to the Word of God…

vs the commentary on Mother Theresa of Calcutta so many years back…not sure if it was written by North American women religious who are on the hot seat with the Vatican…‘Mother Theresa last obedient woman.’

There is going to be a film on Mother Theresa starting today on EWTN.

I love the writings by Mother Theresa on Mary…who is God’s transmitter of grace and likewise, Mary, being the world’s greatest contemplative.
 
Hi everyone,
I was just listening to my local Catholic radio station where I listen to Catholic Answers Live. However, I missed it and tuned in to hear a half hour of continuous Rosary recitations. It was beautiful but troubling to me in a way because it brought back an unpleasant old memory that I will describe below. The way they alternated from men praying the Rosary to women while intejecting music at times was mesmerizing and pretty. However, it made me wonder the following:

How do good Catholics draw the line between venerating Mary and uplifting her so high that her importance equals and competes with that of Christ, God the Father, and the Holy Spirirt?

Unpleasant memory:
Several years ago I was traveling in South America. I remember visiting a prominent park situated on a big hill in Santiago, Chile, (or at least I believe it was Santiago). Toward the bottom of the hill, there was a section of small statues of some saints. About half-way up the hill there was a big statue of Jesus, which I thought was very nice. However, when we got to the top of the hill, there was a gigantic statue of the Virgin Mary with lots of candles and other stuff adorning it.

It made me wonder and I thought to myself, “These folks love Mary more than Christ”.

Having been on this forum for almost a month, I know there are a lot of Catholics who venerate Mary and love and serve God and Christ strongly and sincerely with their whole hearts. I’ve interacted with many of you.

Can you explain how you keep from putting Mary in a higher position than Christ in your life? To me, that sounds like it could be a challenge for Catholics.
Hey Tommy999,

First I would say the Spanish have high aspirations for Mary because of her visit to ., I believe, Juan Pablo. They also hold the Matriarch in their own family high on the Charts.

Mary is 100% human with no divinity. If you believe Catholics are putting her above Jesus then either you may misunderstand their affection to her humanity. Remember the Rosary is all about the mysteries of Christ’s life on earth. His mother asks us to do the Rosary daily to always keep Jesus on our minds

Back during the time of the Israelites having Kings, it was always said that the peasants and needy gave their petitions to the Queen Mother ( since Kings never made their wife the Queen. It always fell to the King’s mother ) The Queen Mother would give the petitions to her son and we as sinners would not get our prayers answered so easily and since Mother Mary is sinless and with her Son, she will get them answered before we will. Remember the prayers of the righteous are to much avail.

Respectfully,

Jpaul 1953
 
I find it interesting that you mention Mark Shea. I just bought his book, ‘By What Authority’
and plan to read it soon.

Compared to Catholicism, I am beginning to think of my church tradition as more like a Motel Six. Thanks, po18guy. Much appreciated, as usual.
You saved me from suggesting that book!
 
Hey Tommy999,

First I would say the Spanish have high aspirations for Mary because of her visit to ., I believe, Juan Pablo. They also hold the Matriarch in their own family high on the Charts.

Mary is 100% human with no divinity. If you believe Catholics are putting her above Jesus then either you may misunderstand their affection to her humanity. Remember the Rosary is all about the mysteries of Christ’s life on earth. His mother asks us to do the Rosary daily to always keep Jesus on our minds

Back during the time of the Israelites having Kings, it was always said that the peasants and needy gave their petitions to the Queen Mother ( since Kings never made their wife the Queen. It always fell to the King’s mother ) The Queen Mother would give the petitions to her son and we as sinners would not get our prayers answered so easily and since Mother Mary is sinless and with her Son, she will get them answered before we will. Remember the prayers of the righteous are to much avail.

Respectfully,

Jpaul 1953
Hi Jpaul,

Small correction…that is Juan Diego, not Juan Pablo. And the story about Guadalupe is so inspiring.

Millions of Aztecs converted by understanding the messages in our Lady’s miraculous image on the Tilma.

Thank you for your post!

Peace,

Dorothy
 
Hi, there…Tommy…well, understanding the Mary from a catholic mindset is one of the most difficult you face in studying the catholic faith.

However, let me borrow the words of a convert named Scott Hahn, in trying to answer your question:

*A friend of mine who had heard I was thinking about the Catholic Church called up one day and said: “Do you worship Mary like those Catholics do?” I said, “They don’t worship Mary; they honor Mary.” “Well, what’s the difference?” I said, “Let me explain. When Christ accepted the call from His Father to become a man, He accepted the responsibility to obey the law, the moral law which is summarized in the Ten Commandments. There’s a commandment which reads, ‘Honor your father and mother.’” I said, “Chris, in the original Hebrew, that word “honor,” kaboda, that Hebrew word means to glorify, to bestow whatever glory and honor you have upon your father and mother. Christ fulfilled that law more perfectly than any human by bestowing His glory upon His heavenly Father and by taking His own divine glory and honoring His Mother with it. All we do in the rosary, Chris, is to imitate Christ who honors His Mother with His own glory. We honor her with Christ’s glory.”
*
Hi pablope,
Seems to me that if Scott Hahn is advocating putting himself and others under the law of Moses, then isn’t the commandment to honour ’ thy father and mother’ ? Then it is your own mother not someone else’s ,even Christ’s ( that is in the context and sense of this commandment.) ‘thy…mother’.
As to his heavenly Father,well that’s different :the first of all commandments as you know is ‘thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy God with all thy heart,and with all thy soul and with all thy mind,and with all thy strength’
Pertaining to ones ‘love’ heavenward ,I doubt whether Scott Hahn noticed in this first commandment the little word ‘all’, that is 'all thy heart…all thy soul…all thy mind…all thy strength ’
If then ,it has to be 'all ',what then is left? ,that is ,with that which we are to ‘glorify’ any other?
And another explanation from this thread, which I borrow, and explain the catholic mindset:
In hierarchical terms, Mary (human) is higher than us, but infinitely lower than Christ (God and man).
Since the ancients understood their lowlinness in relation to God much better than we do, they naturally were attracted to the 100% human mother, whereby Christ could be accessed through her compassion and lowliness. Men knew they were lowly and unworthy. Mary was a human being, sharing in our lowliness. Yet she was also the Mother of God, and she had her son’s ear! Thus, many were instinctively drawn to approach God through His mother.
Hope this helps.
I can understand the sentiment here and how these ‘ancients’ understood their own unworthiness( or sinfulness) but isn’t this the very criteria and reason one needs a saviour?Or ,if you like :your very qualification for coming?
‘and him that cometh to me I will in no way cast out’(John 6:37)

Furthermore if these ‘ancients’ were equating the catholic ‘Mary’ to be 100% ‘human’ like themselves ,I would claim they were mistaken here too,that is because they being ‘unworthy’ or sinful.she being lowly yes ,but sinless.
 
Because Jesus gave his mother to the Beloved Apostle, and all that Jesus gives we view as our own, so we view Mary as our mother. Of course she is not our biological mother. 🙂 Like a mother who fosters in her children a love of parents and family, so Mary fosters in us a love for Jesus and God’s people, the Church, that is the Bride of Christ.
 
I just got back a few minutes ago from my first Catholic Mass since Christmas Eve Midnight Mass in Rome back in 1978 when I was a college student (Yes, I’m that old :o). I heard Mary mentioned a few times as in “pray for us” a few other times in passing but Jesus Christ was definitely the focal point of the Mass as He should be, especially during the Eucharist as others had rpeviously mentioned He would be.

My experience validated to me that Mary has a position of high honor and standing in the Catholic Church but I was relieved to find that she definitely does not rival or eclipse Christ. I will share another thread with my first Mass observations because this thread was about the position of Mary and Christ. Thanks again to all who commented on this thread. Much appreciated!
 
So glad to hear of your experience. I was praying for your intentions this pm. We have had devotion to her for 1800 years. But so far, the focus of worship is Christ.
 
God bless you, Tommy. Lots of prayers coming your way !🙂

(From a fellow college student in 78. We’re not getting older, we’re getting better–oh heck, we’re still getting older though.) 😃
 
Hi pablope,
Seems to me that if Scott Hahn is advocating putting himself and others under the law of Moses, then isn’t the commandment to honour ’ thy father and mother’ ? se of this Then it is your own mother not someone else’s ,even Christ’s ( that is in the context and sencommandment.) ‘thy…mother’.
 
Tommy, I’ve never met any Catholics who elevated Mary above Christ. However, as others here have observed, in some cultures Marian devotion can cross over into such doctrinal dilemmas such as “salvation through Mary.” Witness promise #5 of the 15 “promises of Fatima:”

“5. The soul which recommends itself to Me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish.”
(source: fatima.org/essentials/requests/promises.asp)

That being said, I’m one of those Protestants who happen to believe that there will be many Roman Catholics in Heaven- those who believe that they are saved by God’s grace through faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.🙂
 
I have done hospice work.

I had two severe cases…one wanted to flee her bed, all hooked up to IV’s, etc. The other was a real stinker. When I came back from some days off, she literally had this evil looking death mask. Anyway, through the intercession of Blessed Mother – one had an ‘idol’ of a tiny statue of Mary of Guadalupe with two others from foreign beliefs and they called them ‘idols’ in the household, I witnessed tremendous conversions.

The other had been involved with freemasony and had been in the Philippines putting out the spin about the Catholic Church, which interestingly enough I had witnessed with some relations within my spouse’ family who hold high office in their province as well as many others who are highly educated but Protestant. Very painful to hear such beliefs about my Church.

Likewise I was with my grandfather in law and prayed the rosary for him. In the spirit I saw a balance and on one side was a dish laden with so many sins and the other, so few virtues. After he died, alot of hurt came out from the family and then I had heard what he had done. When I had finished praying for him I felt again in the Holy Spirit, like church bells tolling in joy. When I turned to see a visitor and came back, he was gone.

Mary is our greatest advocate at the hour of death. I am speaking from experience. I am speaking from being a member of our Church that venerates the Virgin.

About the sign of predestination, again this is not understood in the Calvinist sense. Like I pray the rosary and irregardless I am going to heaven.

Catholic understanding of predestination is that God wants all of us to be with Him for all eternity, but He has given us free will. In my free will and the working of grace…that I had received observing and witnessing the faith of knowing Mary’s companionship in serving indigenous people, and when they would gather to pray the rosary, while I walked around the mission ground with nothing to do…and not praying the rosary with faith until the day John Paul II was shot in Rome 7 years later, that I got down on my knees and came into the understanding of Jesus, the tactile awareness of heaven near me in my simple, ordinary life, and the immediate clearing up of my mind about confusion with some practices in the mission (liberation theology), finally ceased. Mary brought me to pure theological faith and grounded me in my Catholic faith walk where I experienced communion of heaven and earth with the saints. I could not come to this communion in the Church without Mary as she is the model, the symbol of perfect faith and prays constantly for our growth and lifelong conversion, always helping us recognize our daily walk in God’s will.

So for me the grace was witness of devotion to Mary in the field of evangelization and service that opened me up to a greater calling and clarity of walk and communion with the Lord…where I can now with free will never leave my Catholic faith.

I hope that helps. You really cannot understand the living experience of Mary outside the Church unless she decides to make herself known…and she is so hidden and humble, it must be the right time for the soul…for the very purpose that when she does reveal herself to you, you are now well grounded in the Lord as the center of your life. I know because I searched for her for 7 years as well as having the experience of being wounded by a false theology and seeing the rosary clear it all up in 15 minutes.
 
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