How do Catholics vote outside the US? Especially in the UK

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I think it would be unwise to view the opinions of Catholics on CAF as necessarily reflective of the views of Catholics in the US generally.
Starting with basic obligations like weekly Mass attendance that go unmet by 75% of US Catholics, I’d say describing what US Catholics think is meaningless. There is no Catholic identity when 75% of your populace doesn’t actually practice. Perhaps asking about the voting trends of practicing Catholics would be more insightful. For some reason, race is more of a determinant in voting trends than religious beliefs for those simply baptized.
 
in public Mrs Thatcher pursued an aggressively anti-gay agenda. She didn’t just maintain the status quo, but actually hardened the country’s stance against homosexuality. In private, however, she was remarkably tolerant
Some have questioned the possibility of having a public position at odds with your private position, but I feel the same way. Personally I think homosexuality is to some degree a “choice,” and you can find all sorts of historical examples to show that–the Sacred Band of Thebes, for example. I think “marriage” is the wrong way to go, although I was fine with “partnership” or some other term. But on the other hand, once I had to select two partners for a year-long project, and I picked a homosexual guy who called himself “Sister Christine” when he got drunk. In other words, not shy about his leanings. In another case I hired a homosexual for a key position. In other words, I overlooked their sexual preferences and focused on their work-related abilities.

As for “Liberal” and “Conservative” it seems we (in all countries) have hung onto 19th c. labels that really don’t reflect reality. You can’t compare countries (even USA and Canada or USA and UK) because something considered “conservative” in one might be “liberal” in another. And the same action might be called “conservative” by some (Blair as warlike) vs. “liberal” on the other (Blair as defending freedom). Are tariffs “conservative” (defending companies) or “liberal” (defending workers)? And so on.

And, as I’ve said before, labelling someone “conservative” or “liberal” in religion makes no sense to me. It depends on the issue. You might be on the “conservative” side on one issue but on the “liberal” side on another. Although I’m sure there are some who are on one side or the other on ALL issues.
 
I think “marriage” is the wrong way to go, although I was fine with “partnership” or some other term.
Is this not an argument for “separate but equal”? From what I’ve know that tends to end up definitely separate, but far from equal.
 
Is this not an argument for “separate but equal”? From what I’ve know that tends to end up definitely separate, but far from equal.
I don’t see why “partners” can’t have equal rights–inheritance, visiting in hospital, taxes, etc. But calling it “marriage” is a bit much for me.
 
What is the alternative to the Conservative Party? The loonie left??
The Christian Party is probably about as close to our socially conservative beliefs as you’ll get in the UK. Of course they do not stand a chance.
There are, and to some extent always have been, those on the right who hold conservative economic viewpoints together with more liberal outlooks on social and moral issues. I think that your definition of conservatism would apply more to somebody like Norman Tebbit, who has more or less out of public life for almost 30 years.
I think the definition of conservatism differs very much country to country. You stated that there are those on the right with conservative economic viewpoints and more liberal views socially. I would say that’s pretty much the majority of the Conservative Party now. There might be a few in that party who hold both conservative economic views and conservative social views (Jacob Rees-Mogg for example) but I don’t believe there is anyone in the party who holds liberal economic views but conservative social views. In Poland on the other hand, the ruling Law and Justice Party, very much considered conservative there, runs on those very ideas. They are socially conservative and economically quite liberal.

For me, social conservatism is a must to be able to truly call yourself a conservative. This is just my view. That is why I believe that the Conservative Party in the UK isn’t conservative. I believe the economic side can be more flexible in conservatism, in accordance with what you feel your socially conservative views tell you about what the right way to run an economy is.
 
I have found that filipinos in general are devout Catholics but they have not been well catechised.
I think this is pretty common in the region (I’m in Singapore). There were so so so many things I didn’t know about the church until I came on here. I wasn’t aware there were so many ‘rules’.
 
Emily, I just wanted to say that I really get a lot from your contributions on this board, I find myself learning so much from your knowledge of UK politics.
 
For me, social conservatism is a must to be able to truly call yourself a conservative. This is just my view. That is why I believe that the Conservative Party in the UK isn’t conservative. I believe the economic side can be more flexible in conservatism, in accordance with what you feel your socially conservative views tell you about what the right way to run an economy is.
A UK Conservative would probably argue the opposite.
 
I think the definition of conservatism differs very much country to country.
It certainly does. And the mainstream understanding of the term also changes over time within a country.
Conservatism in Canada once meant Britain over America, anti-free trade and creating Crown Corporations to fill economic gaps. Now it means free markets, privatize as much as possible, pro-free trade and more reliance on the US.
 
What is the alternative to the Conservative Party? The loonie left??
There is also a mainstream left. There has always been a tension between the more moderate and more extreme elements within the Labour Party. Keir Starmer represents the more moderate element and hopefully will continue to reverse the damage inflicted by Jeremy Corbyn and his supporters.
Last 2 years, the Archdiocese gave a list of people that we can vote as Catholics, as we know in the past few years Duterte issued extra-judicial killings, which is against the teachings of the Church.
Hello. It’s certainly encouraging to know that the Church is taking a stand against Duterte. I can only assume that insulting the pope, the Catholic Church, and even God must damage his reputation among ordinary voters.
I think it would be unwise to view the opinions of Catholics on CAF as necessarily reflective of the views of Catholics in the US generally.
I am beginning to get that impression. The alt right seems to be disproportionately represented on CAF, especially on the World News forum, where Breitbart appears to be considered a news source.
 
I think the definition of conservatism differs very much country to country.
It probably explains to a large extent why the conversations that we read on here about American politics are so different to the conversations that we read about politics in countries such as the UK. It also perhaps explains why many Americans (especially conservatives) often seem to have misconceptions about British politics.

In the UK since the 1920s the main distinction between political ideologies has been between socialism and economic conservatism, rather than between conservatism and liberalism. In terms of social and moral attitudes, both of the main parties have tended to share the views of the majority of the country, often dividing along lines of class and education. For this reason, politicians of most mainstream parties have often tended to be more progressive in their views than many ordinary voters. The classic example would be the death penalty, which remained popular among the general public long after politicians had voted for its abolition.

Civil partnerships and same-sex marriage do reveal a somewhat higher degree of conservatism among Conservative MPs compared with Labour. Civil partnerships were a Labour policy, but received support from the Liberal Democrats and Scottish, Welsh, and Northern Irish nationalists. The Conservatives took no official position, but the legislation was supported by a majority of Conservative MPs, including the party leader, Michael Howard. Same-sex marriage, on the other hand, was a policy of the Conservative and Liberal Democrat coalition government. The legislation was supported by an overwhelming majority of Labour, Liberal Democrat, and nationalist MPs, but slightly more than half of Conservative MPs voted against the bill. One could perhaps say that this is evidence that the Conservative Party is moving in the same direction as the other parties, but is doing so a little more slowly.

On the subject of homosexuality, it is worth noting that in 1965 Clement Attlee described it as “an evil”. Attlee is praised by his admirers on the left for his support for the partial decriminalisation of male homosexuality, but it must be noted that, like many of his contemporaries, he supported homosexual law reform on pragmatic grounds, not because he was particularly liberal. Indeed, Attlee’s approach was in keeping with the position of both the Anglican and Roman Catholic churches. Indeed, it is noteworthy that Britain’s greatest liberal reformer of the 1960s, Roy Jenkins, ultimately left the Labour party to create first the Social Democrats and later the Liberal Democrats.

I would also mention that in the UK, controversial moral issues have traditionally been addressed by means of private members’ bills and free votes. E.g., the Murder (Abolition of Death Penalty) Act 1965 (private member’s bill introduced by Sydney Silverman, a Labour MP), the Abortion Act 1967 (private member’s bill introduced by David Steel, a Liberal), and the Sexual Offences Act 1967 (private member’s bill introduced by Leo Abse, Labour, and the 8th earl of Arran, a Conservative).
 
And I am learning that the politics of the United States is not the center of the universe.
 
Any comparison between social and political attitudes in the USA and the UK would need to take into account the relative hold that religion has over swathes of the population of the former. Claiming to be a friend of Jesus won’t get anybody elected in mainland UK.
 
Can you tie that observation down to any particular issue(s)?
That had been a kind of throwaway line - the point is that religion is rarely mentioned at all, there is no ‘Conservative Christian’ bloc of any kind (doesn’t mean there aren’t any, it’s that they’re not numerous and not a bloc).

Abortion, for example, isn’t an issue of any significance - doesn’t mean that there are not opponents of abortion, it’s that there’s no political advantage to be gained by being a campaigning politician for ending it.

Generally-speaking, loud religious people tend to be seen as eccentric and best avoided.
 
Another enormous rift is the existence of gun laws. One would have to travel to the extremes of Faragia to find a UK politician earnestly arguing for relaxation of the restrictions on gun ownership.

Although the Guardian tells me the Revolutionary Communist Party’s alumni, now strangely bedded down among Conservatives, are in favour of Guns for the Workers. The world is passing beyond my ability to address it sensibly, even when sober.
 
are in favour of Guns for the Workers.
Well, Lenin did say that an oppressed class that failed to take up arms against their oppressors deserved to be oppressed - so the Tory Trots probably hope that the gammons will start shooting the ‘metropolitan elite’.
 
the point is that religion is rarely mentioned at all
For example, Theresa May is the daughter of an Anglican priest, and is clearly someone at home in a Church of England pew, but there would nothing to be gained by anyone mentioning that, either in her favour or otherwise. And she would not feel constrained to end a speech by calling on God to bless the United Kingdom (Although I like to claim that that’s because it’s obvious that he’s done that already) 🙂
 
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