How do I become a Coptic Catholic?

[Vico]

… I just don’t wanna be Latin and I don’t see why I should be forced to remain that way. I just simply do not understand why the church makes it so difficult. … I just happen to go to a Latin Church but that does not make me a Latin Catholic because in my heart I’m not …

I believe (but can’t proove that) control by the Apostolic See is to safeguard the traditions including control over Latin Church members leaving the Latin Church without a good spiritual motive. I think that if a Latin Church member were to join an Eastern Church and not have the intention to preserve the Eastern traditions, it could be unhealthy.

Orientalium Ecclesiarum (1964) seems to be the source of the rules for Latin Church member transfer.

And this for Eastern rite to Latin rite:

H.H. Pope Leo XIII, in Orientalium Dignitas (1894) generalized the rules of H.H. Pope Benedict XIV (1740s) originally promulgated respecting the Greek Melkites:

“Any Latin rite missionary, whether of the secular or religious clergy, who induces with his advice or assistance any Eastern rite faithful to transfer to the Latin rite, will be deposed and excluded from his benefice in addition to the ipso facto suspension a divinis and other punishments that he will incur as imposed in the aforesaid Constitution Demandatam.”

You initially get the ritual church membership of you parents, parent, or guardian.
I suppose you do not meet any of the following.
If Latin and your parents had a mixed ritual church marriage you can change by election any time since age 14.
If Latin then either spouse in a mixed ritual church marriage can switch to match the other.

 

[Aydan]

That’s interesting thanks yeah I can see where both churches would have that concern because they definitely don’t want the traditions or the liturgy taken lightly. Nope I’m not married and my few family members who are Catholic (most are either Protestant or agnostic now) were Latin Catholics so I was baptized Latin of course. I would always I have great respect for the Eastern traditions especially Coptic and the Maronite church. If I was going to visit the Maronite church which I believe is the only Eastern Church we have where I am living I would learn the language of the liturgy first so that I can say it properly. As for the Latin Church Latin Mass and because I had no idea what it meant to be Catholic since I received so little training in the faith I actually fell away from the church because I remember being a small child and everything being in Latin as I grew older I had no idea when Catholics believe so eventually I just gave up even after they switched to English I just gave up because I still did not understand what was going on so finely I just gave up on being Catholic altogether. It wasn’t until I was 24 years old that I found out why Jesus died on the cross or any other Catholic teachings for that matter because I met a friend in college who is a practicing Catholic that really has a solid foundation in church teachings it was only then did I find out what it really means to be Catholic and that’s when I decided to return to the church and go through confirmation which I did.
To this day though I can not stand Latin at all I’ve been to the Latin Mass and I can’t stand it is just not for me. I won’t even speak Latin at all for that matter even in the English liturgy I will say it in English or Turkish instead. So in a way I feel like I am disrespecting the Latin Church because of this but I cannot help it because it is so difficult to change rites. Because of the Maronite church being so far away from where I’m living I really have no other option than to attend a Latin Church. It would be nice if I could be Maronite because at least then I wouldn’t feel like I’m disrespecting the Latin rite.

I believe (but can’t proove that) control by the Apostolic See is to safeguard the traditions including control over Latin Church members leaving the Latin Church without a good spiritual motive. I think that if a Latin Church member were to join an Eastern Church and not have the intention to preserve the Eastern traditions, it could be unhealthy.

Orientalium Ecclesiarum (1964) seems to be the source of the rules for Latin Church member transfer.

And this for Eastern rite to Latin rite:

H.H. Pope Leo XIII, in Orientalium Dignitas (1894) generalized the rules of H.H. Pope Benedict XIV (1740s) originally promulgated respecting the Greek Melkites:

“Any Latin rite missionary, whether of the secular or religious clergy, who induces with his advice or assistance any Eastern rite faithful to transfer to the Latin rite, will be deposed and excluded from his benefice in addition to the ipso facto suspension a divinis and other punishments that he will incur as imposed in the aforesaid Constitution Demandatam.”

You initially get the ritual church membership of you parents, parent, or guardian.
I suppose you do not meet any of the following.
If Latin and your parents had a mixed ritual church marriage you can change by election any time since age 14.
If Latin then either spouse in a mixed ritual church marriage can switch to match the other.

 

[Vico]

… If I was going to visit the Maronite church which I believe is the only Eastern Church we have where I am living I would learn the language of the liturgy first so that I can say it properly. … To this day though I can not stand Latin at all … So in a way I feel like I am disrespecting the Latin Church because of this but I cannot help it because it is so difficult to change rites. …

I’m sorry it is so difficult. None of the churches in USA speak Turkish in the Liturgy, the closest is the Melkites that use Arabic, the Maronites, Syrian, Syro-Malabar and Chaldean that use Syriac. (Isn’t Turkish is a different language family than Arabic and Syriac?) If English is good for you, then Byzantine and Ukrainian-Greek use that in the USA.

You can get some books to study the theology and tradition and see if it is better for you since there is a different approach between Latin and Eastern with many variations too. The Maronites use the Liturgy of Saint James and the Melkites use the Liturgy of Saint John Chrysotsom, mainly.

Look at my Catholic Church chart on my personal page on this forum.

I recommend reading the books and assisting at Liturgy to learn.

Melkites (Constatinople traditon): theobooks.org pick Basic Adult Catechesis for the Light For Life series.

Maronites (Antiochian tradition): ourladyoflebanon-dc.org/bookoverview.html

If you want to change churches I urge you to do it by writing to the Latin Bishop in your diocese, after picking a church that matches you best. (I would not mention why you do not like Latin though, rather why you feel closer to the church you pick.)

 

[Aydan]

oh yes I know nobody speaks Turkish it’s hard to find a mass in Turkey that’s in Turkish. I should’ve clarified this when it comes to saying prayers they’ve adopted Arabic words into Turkish so when I say Turkish I’m actually speaking Arabic that has been incorporated into Turkish for example Allah is Arabic but it’s also Turkish. I’m putting aside my Turkish studies for now because I don’t really get a chance to use it and I want to learn Arabic because I would have a chance to interact with the Arabic speaking community here.
Yes I looked into the Maronite church because even though it’s pretty far away from where I live at least we have one. One of the Eastern practices that I really like is the liturgy of the hours I found out about that when I was studying the Coptic Church I was stunned to find out the Latin Church even had it so I was very happy about that. I try to do it everyday I also listen to the pod casts of the Maronite daily readings I enjoy that. And I incorporate Arabic/Turkish in church and nobody minds in fact we have quite a few people who are bilingual in my parish I met a Polish family tonight for example so I’m not out of place when I do that. Actually now that I have access things from Eastern churches I’ve just incorporated it into my prayer life and I’m quite happy with this hybrid combination I feel like I can still attend my Latin Church but I’m no longer have to be in the Latin rite and I’m happy with that since you guys have given me so much information. You just won’t see me at a Latin Mass. I have nothing against people who like the Latin traditional but it’s not for me. It’s not like we speak a lot of Latin in the English liturgy and I can easily switch languages. So I’m happy with the way things are now. I don’t need to officially change rites not to be Latin because I know where my heart is. I’m in Latin rite Catholic in name only. With the second part of that being the most important one I’m Catholic and that’s the most important thing for all of us. I will check out your web sites thanks.

I’m sorry it is so difficult. None of the churches in USA speak Turkish in the Liturgy, the closest is the Melkites that use Arabic, the Maronites, Syrian, Syro-Malabar and Chaldean that use Syriac. (Isn’t Turkish is a different language family than Arabic and Syriac?) If English is good for you, then Byzantine and Ukrainian-Greek use that in the USA.

You can get some books to study the theology and tradition and see if it is better for you since there is a different approach between Latin and Eastern with many variations too. The Maronites use the Liturgy of Saint James and the Melkites use the Liturgy of Saint John Chrysotsom, mainly.

Look at my Catholic Church chart on my personal page on this forum.

I recommend reading the books and assisting at Liturgy to learn.

Melkites (Constatinople traditon): theobooks.org pick Basic Adult Catechesis for the Light For Life series.

Maronites (Antiochian tradition): ourladyoflebanon-dc.org/bookoverview.html

If you want to change churches I urge you to do it by writing to the Latin Bishop in your diocese, after picking a church that matches you best. (I would not mention why you do not like Latin though, rather why you feel closer to the church you pick.)

 

[5Loaves]

It would be nice if I could be Maronite because at least then I wouldn’t feel like I’m disrespecting the Latin rite.

Just a reminder that you are talking about the Roman Rite, celebrated in Latin or in the vernacular, in the Ordinary Form or the Extraordinary Form, of the Latin Church. There is no Latin rite of the Latin Church.

 

[Aydan]

Just a reminder that you are talking about the Roman Rite, celebrated in Latin or in the vernacular, in the Ordinary Form or the Extraordinary Form, of the Latin Church. There is no Latin rite of the Latin Church.

yeah but most people I know referred to it as Latin Church but I guess it would be more appropriate to say Western Church right? What do you mean there is no Latin rite I’m confused what’s the proper name Roman?

 

[Vico]

The Latin Church uses several liturgical rites: Ordinary Form (1970 Novus Ordo), Extraordinary Form (1962 Latin), Carthusian, Mozarabic (Spain), Bracarensis (Portugal), Ambrosian (Milan), and Anglican Use.

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/picture.php?albumid=601&pictureid=5664

Pope Paul VI (1964) referred to the individual Churches as “Churches or Rites”, and later in 1983 the revised Latin Code of Canon Law used the term “autonomous ritual Church”, but finally in the 1991 Eastern Code (CCEO) “Churches sui iuris” is used. It gives the most current defintions in use:

CCEO Canon 27
A group of Christian faithful united by a hierarchy according to the norm of law which the supreme authority of the Church expressly or tacitly recognizes as sui iuris is called in this Code a Church sui iuris.
CCEO Canon 28

1. A rite is the liturgical, theological, spiritual and disciplinary patrimony, culture and circumstances of history of a distinct people, by which its own manner of living the faith is manifested in each Church sui iuris.
2. The rites treated in this code, unless otherwise stated, are those which arise from the Alexandrian, Antiochene, Armenian, Chaldean and Constantinopolitan traditions.

 

[5Loaves]

The Latin Church uses several liturgical rites: Ordinary Form (1970 Novus Ordo), Extraordinary Form (1962 Latin), Carthusian, Mozarabic (Spain), Bracarensis (Portugal), Ambrosian (Milan), and Anglican Use.

Dominican Rite, Carmelite Rite, Cisternian Rite. I learned recently that the The Sarum Rite/Sarum Use apparently has had some celebration by the Oxford University Newman Society as well as by the Bishop of Aberdeen. Interesting also in that it is a rite of the Latin Church which some of the Orthodox also celebrate in the Western Rite liturgical tradition within the Orthodox Church.

 

[Vico]

Dominican Rite, Carmelite Rite, Cisternian Rite. I learned recently that the The Sarum Rite/Sarum Use apparently has had some celebration by the Oxford University Newman Society as well as by the Bishop of Aberdeen. Interesting also in that it is a rite of the Latin Church which some of the Orthodox also celebrate in the Western Rite liturgical tradition within the Orthodox Church.

Also Zaire and Norbertine. (I left the discontinued and rarely used off the diagram.) It will be interesting to see what becomes the use of the Anglican-Catholic personal ordinariate if it materializes.

 

[Vico]

…Actually now that I have access things from Eastern churches I’ve just incorporated it into my prayer life and I’m quite happy with this hybrid combination I feel like I can still attend my Latin Church but I’m no longer have to be in the Latin rite and I’m happy with that since you guys have given me so much information. … So I’m happy with the way things are now. I don’t need to officially change rites not to be Latin because I know where my heart is. I’m in Latin rite Catholic in name only. With the second part of that being the most important one I’m Catholic and that’s the most important thing for all of us…

I am glad you have resolved this to your satisfaction. Yes, best is being Catholic. Just a note about the philosophy of the Catholic Church from the canons: one has a proper pastor and ordinary (Bishop) based upon where they live in their official paticular ritual Church (in your case Latin Church) and must get dispensations and permissions from them, and also the rules for holy days and fasting/abstinance come from that Church, no matter where you actually assist, or how you think of yourself or your personal devotions. That is why I think it is good to actually belong in the particular Church you most identify with, (plus you also have rights in your particular Church). Of course assisting at Mass/Divine Liturgy, sacraments, can be anywhere.

 

[megaa]

Well, I would first find a Coptic Rite Catholic Church and talk to the priest about your intentions.

chameleonadder.com/

 

[Aydan]

Yes I’m aware of the differences I’ve been studying those like the fasting regulations and ash Monday things of that nature. As far as identifying that’s hard because liturgy wise I identify with the Eastern traditions but I’ve grown very attached to my parish because these were the people that brought me back into the church and taught me what it means to be Catholic. I cannot see myself leaving my parish because as long as I have access to an English liturgy I don’t want to break the bond I have with my friends. I’m fine with the way things are now with the new Eastern traditions I’ve adopted as long as I don’t have to attend a Latin traditional mass or speak any Latin I’m perfectly happy in my parish.

I am glad you have resolved this to your satisfaction. Yes, best is being Catholic. Just a note about the philosophy of the Catholic Church from the canons: one has a proper pastor and ordinary (Bishop) based upon where they live in their official paticular ritual Church (in your case Latin Church) and must get dispensations and permissions from them, and also the rules for holy days and fasting/abstinance come from that Church, no matter where you actually assist, or how you think of yourself or your personal devotions. That is why I think it is good to actually belong in the particular Church you most identify with, (plus you also have rights in your particular Church). Of course assisting at Mass/Divine Liturgy, sacraments, can be anywhere.

 

[markomalley]

Aydan,

Merhaba

You might want to look into the Melkites, as well. From Antakya.

There is a parish in McLean VA. holytransfiguration.org/index.html