M
malphono
Guest
The OP does not say where in the US she is located, but as far as I am aware, those are the only two churches in the US.
- Status
A
Aramis
Guest
That is dead wrong, Michael. Canon 1248 says that one can fulfill one’s obligations as a Catholic within any Catholic rite.If this is just a whim be patient, the feeling may pass. You could try to occasionally attend the local Coptic (Orthodox) church to absorb the spirituality, nothing actually wrong with that.
Of course, you will need to attend your regular parish to meet your Sunday ‘obligation’ as well.
Can. 1248 §1. A person who assists at a Mass celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass.
§2. If participation in the eucharistic celebration becomes impossible because of the absence of a sacred minister or for another grave cause, it is strongly recommended that the faithful take part in a liturgy of the word if such a liturgy is celebrated in a parish church or other sacred place according to the prescripts of the diocesan bishop or that they devote themselves to prayer for a suitable time alone, as a family, or, as the occasion permits, in groups of families.
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P4N.HTM
A
Aydan
Guest
no-no he was telling me if I attended the ORTHODOX Coptic Church I would also have to continue going to my parish to fulfill mass obligations.
A
Aydan
Guest
You know after reading your posts I realize something I think I’m focusing on the rituals too much after all no matter what which church we are in we are all Catholic and that’s what really matters and I thought God was calling me to become Coptic but now that I think about it perhaps he just wanted me to do the liturgy of the hours because if I had read about a Coptic Orthodox monastery in Turkey I would’ve not found out about the liturgy of the hours I had no idea it was in the Catholic Church before I started reading about the Coptic version. And just that small little change has made a huge difference for me. And you guys are right I don’t have to be Coptic to enjoy a aspect of their church so maybe that is the answer.
A
Aramis
Guest
He’s still, in fact, wrong. One can fulfill one’s obligations in the Orthodox churches if one is not Roman Rite. And if one attends for educational or ecumenical purposes, one’s sunday obligation as a latin is fulfilled.
It’s the Rite, not the particular church, provided the sacraments are valid in that church.
H
Hesychios
Guest
This is true.
Rather harsh, no?
In fact, I thought the op made it quite clear … Aydan is a Latin rite Christian.
What was not readily apparent (to me) was that Aydan was not residing in Turkey, but in the USA.
Not really relevant, I think, but can you back this up with a reference? I never heard that “if one attends for educational or ecumenical purposes, one’s Sunday obligation as a Latin is fulfilled.” It pretty much cancels out everything I have ever seen posted on the subject here.
Please indicate the canons which spell this out, so that I don’t make the mistake of crossing your path again.
A
Aramis
Guest
USCCB’s eccumenical directory. Don’t have it to hand, but it most assuredly does permit attending orthodox liturgies in lieu of sunday mass if attending for educational or ecumenical purpose, at least for all Catholics in the United States.
5
5Loaves
Guest
On the Byzcath site you can search either by Church or by Country. And as others already said as far as Coptic Catholics, there are two parishes in the US.
5
5Loaves
Guest
That is correct, you cannot fulfill your Sunday Obligation in an Orthodox Church except under very specific circumstances for which you would not qualify, as a member of the Latin Church living in an area with Latin parishes, and perhaps other Byzantinc Catholic parishes as well.
“non-Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid” are the Orthodox ministers.
That is the Catholic side. On the Orthodox side in the US, except perhaps in Alaska, it would be difficult to find an Orthodox priest willing to offer sacraments to a Catholic.
It does not sound like you are under the direction of a spiritual father so that would be the place to turn. If your parish priest cannot help you then contact the diocese/chancery and let them know you need a qualified spiritual director who understands the Eastern Catholic Churches.
From your description you have no experience living your faith within a Coptic parish, Orthodox or Catholic. It would not be possible, as I think you have gathered, to change to a church sui juris in which you’ve not actively lived. You might find the interview with Fr Maximos’s, “Who are Eastern Catholics?” , helpful for his consideration about how we are members of the Church. Even though Fr Maximos is a Byzantine Catholic the initial minutes of this interview address what churches are and why we belong to them. With the help of a qualified spiritual father hopefully you can find what you are called to at this time in the Church.
Great Lent begins tomorrow evening for us. This coming week is a very important one and has additional liturgies such as Compline and Canon. This is evening prayer with Great Canon and no Holy Eucharist is involved. It would be a nice to go to an Eastern Catholic or Orthodox church for these.
Throughout Great Lent on Wednesdays and Fridays is the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts in Orthodox and EC Churches. You could attend these at an Orthodox church without receiving Eucharist or look for another Byzantine Catholic Church to join in celebrating these liturgies and taking the Eucharist.
A
Aydan
Guest
Actually in Turkey most of the Catholic Churchs are Latin as well but they do have an Orthodox Coptic monastery there that my friend was telling me about and I found out about the Coptic Catholic Church by reading about it. I believe there may only be one Coptic Catholic church in the US because that one in LA seems to be a dead end I’m not even sure if it exists anymore because the web site is not working I live in Virginia anyway so it wouldn’t be practical for me And I tried that Byzantine link as well but to no avail.I was just hoping that there was some way for me to contact a Coptic Catholic priest to explore changing my rite in the eyes of the church. Sadly I’ve given up on this hope now. I have no choice but to remain Latin unfortunately because I feel like there is no other option for me. But I want to make it clear I go to a Latin rite church and that was confirmed there. I could never consider going to an Orthodox church as fulfillmentof my duties as a Catholic because I would not be allowed to receive the sacraments in the Orthodox church without becoming Orthodox and I have no desire to leave the Catholic faith at all even if it means I have to remain Latin.
This is true. Rather harsh, no?
In fact, I thought the op made it quite clear … Aydan is a Latin rite Christian.
What was not readily apparent (to me) was that Aydan was not residing in Turkey, but in the USA. Not really relevant, I think, but can you back this up with a reference? I never heard that “if one attends for educational or ecumenical purposes, one’s Sunday obligation as a Latin is fulfilled.” It pretty much cancels out everything I have ever seen posted on the subject here.
Please indicate the canons which spell this out, so that I don’t make the mistake of crossing your path again.
A
Aydan
Guest
thanks but I had a hard enough time trying to get some of the prayers translated into Turkish my diocese does not have a good source for something like this so it be pointless for me they even try or even ask so I’ve just given up hope. As I was saying earlier we only have one Byzantine church so I might as well just stay with my current parish. I’m sorry I even posted here or brought up the issue.
J
Just_Lurking
Guest
CCEO Canons:
Canon 32
A wife is at liberty to transfer to the Church of the husband at the celebration of or during the marriage; when the marriage has ended, she can freely return to the original Church sui iuris.
Canon 36
The transfer to another Church sui iuris takes effect at the moment a declaration is made before the local hierarch or the proper pastor of the same Church or a priest delegated by either of them and two witnesses, unless the rescript of the Apostolic See provides otherwise.
Canon 32
- No one can validly transfer to another Church sui iuris without the consent of the Apostolic See.
- In the case of Christian faithful of an eparchy of a certain Church sui iuris who petition to transfer to another Church sui iuris which has its own eparchy in the same territory, this consent of the Apostolic See is presumed, provided that the eparchial bishops of both eparchies consent to the transfer in writing.
A wife is at liberty to transfer to the Church of the husband at the celebration of or during the marriage; when the marriage has ended, she can freely return to the original Church sui iuris.
Canon 36
The transfer to another Church sui iuris takes effect at the moment a declaration is made before the local hierarch or the proper pastor of the same Church or a priest delegated by either of them and two witnesses, unless the rescript of the Apostolic See provides otherwise.
A
Aydan
Guest
now I see why they discourage people from changing rites it’s not even worth it as long as I don’t have to ever speak Latin or attend another Latin Mass in my life I’m okay in a Latin Church as long as I can be Latin in name only because my heart is definitely not Latin.
M
mardukm
Guest
Dear sister Aydan,
You can contact the priest there at (323) 669-2822 - normal business hours.
It is wonderful that you feel very attracted to Coptic spirituality. The deeper you study your own Latin Traditions, you may find that the Coptic and Latin spiritualites have a lot in common. I should also mention that use of a headcovering is a cultural, not a ritual, phenomenon. You will find many Latin Catholics that still use a veil during Mass, depending on what country you live in. For example, in the Philippines, many use the veil regularly.
Blessings,
Marduk
The Coptic Catholic Church in L.A. (St. Mary’s Coptic Catholic Church) has Mass at 10:30 A.M. on Sundays. It is the Liturgy of St. Mark and is almost all in Arabic.
You can contact the priest there at (323) 669-2822 - normal business hours.
It is wonderful that you feel very attracted to Coptic spirituality. The deeper you study your own Latin Traditions, you may find that the Coptic and Latin spiritualites have a lot in common. I should also mention that use of a headcovering is a cultural, not a ritual, phenomenon. You will find many Latin Catholics that still use a veil during Mass, depending on what country you live in. For example, in the Philippines, many use the veil regularly.
Blessings,
Marduk
A
Aydan
Guest
thank you as much as I love the Coptic language and I really do identify more with that tradition because I speak Turkish I just don’t see any point anymore because I’m in Virginia and from what everyone said I wouldn’t be able to change rites anyway because I couldn’t attend the services. Of course I would have to learn Arabic which I’m willing to do. In my parish I don’t see any similarities whatsoever the women do not veil. Or at least most of them don’t. So I think it’s better to just give up now rather than getting my hopes up because everyone is right there’s no real chance of me ever be able to be Coptic no matter how much I identify with it. But thank you for trying to help.
N
Nowhere_Man
Guest
Have you looked into other Eastern Rites? Or the TLM?
A
Aydan
Guest
as I said earlier in the thread yes I have tried but we only have a Byzantine church here and yes I have been to the Latin mass I can’t stand it and I definitely don’t want to ever ever go to one again and I certainly don’t want to speak Latin I want nothing to do with Latin. That’s why I’m trying to get out of the rite I don’t even want to be called Latin. I thought I made that clear but maybe not.
B
brigantine
Guest
Why the anger? You may feel more in touch and comfortable with the Coptic Liturgy but why the anger you have for the Latin Mass? I feel much more spiritually connected to the East but I hold no anger to the TLM. In fact I think the TLM is beautiful!
I’m not trying to argue with you just get a feeling why your post seems angry!
M
malphono
Guest
This thread has, indeed, become very strange. Without going into the OP’s 180 change in tone, the thought of Copts in Turkey had me scratching my head. When I looked around a bit, (admittedly today), I found no reference to any Coptic presence (CC or OC) in that country whatsoever, which agrees with my initial skepticism. Perhaps someone (mardukm?) has more info on it.
N
Nowhere_Man
Guest
Ok, thank you. When you referred to Latin earlier, I assumed you were referring to the right, not the language, and I must have missed the post about the Byzantine Churches. So, Mea Culpa.
- Status