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Filioque
Guest
100% the Maronites are the only group that have never been out of communion with Rome. The other Eastern Catholics are members of Orthodox Churches that returned to communion with the Holy See after the Schism.
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Kyrillos_NY
Guest
The Maronite and Melkite Catholic Churches use Arabic extensively.I’m really confused about something because I keep getting different answers on this. I really like the Coptic because they speak Arabic and it makes me feel more connected to Turkey and the East than the Latin Church does but as I’ve said there’s no Coptic Church in my area that Catholic there’s only a Coptic Orthodox church. So I’ve been trying to figure out some sort of compromise like one of the things I really like about the Coptic Church is the liturgy of the hours but rather then do the Orthodox liturgy of the hours I do that Catholic liturgy of the hours instead. Are we allowed to watch other liturgies because I’ve been watching the Coptic Church liturgy? I would like to keep watching it because I really enjoy watching it But of course I will continue to attend my Latin Church because I want to remain Catholic. Also can somebody tell me if there are any other Eastern Catholic churches that speak Arabic that I could look into it?
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Filioque
Guest
The liturgical language of the Copts is actually Pharonic Egyptian, while there is a strong greek influence since many of the pharos were greek and not African, it is not really arabic. One of the important factors in archeologists learning how to pronounce hyroglyphs, aside from the Rosetta Stone was the preservation of the ancient Pharonic tounge by the Copts.
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Aydan
Guest
very interesting history I’m learning a lot most of the Coptic Orthodox liturgies have been in a combination of Coptic and Arabic or at least that’s what it says on their web sites.
The liturgical language of the Copts is actually Pharonic Egyptian, while there is a strong greek influence since many of the pharos were greek and not African, it is not really arabic. One of the important factors in archeologists learning how to pronounce hyroglyphs, aside from the Rosetta Stone was the preservation of the ancient Pharonic tounge by the Copts.
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Aydan
Guest
I was hoping to find broadcasts of the liturgies or at least the daily readings I can’t seem to find anything does anyone know any links?The Maronite and Melkite Catholic Churches use Arabic extensively.
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5Loaves
Guest
Eparchy of Newton Videos - Inspiration & NewsI was hoping to find broadcasts of the liturgies or at least the daily readings I can’t seem to find anything does anyone know any links?
You’ve probably already listened at Saint Antony Monastery.
You might be interested in the Orientale Lumen Conference Liturgies. EuroEast I are in Constantinople. I know there have been other *Orientale Lumen * Conferences in Constantinople but I’m not sure if other of the liturgies were filmed there. You’ll have to wade through the credits at the start to see where they were filmed.
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Aydan
Guest
no I hadn’t found two of these yet they are awesome I love the monastery and the Oriental web site already I’m so excited because now I can listen to Maronite and Coptic prayers on the weekdays and still go to my Latin Church on Saturday. When I was looking at how close the Maronite liturgy is to the Latin I was shocked. I’m a little disappointed because the Maronite church here is like really far away from me so it’s not practical for me to go all the time but I wouldn’t mind going and visiting once in awhile. Now that I know they are so close I feel much more comfortable in my Latin church as well because for the first time I’ve finally found something that allows me to enjoy my Turkish language roots without feeling guilty or feeling like I’m compromising my Catholic faith. This is awesome thank you guys for all your help I went from what I thought was hopeless to being hopeful.
Eparchy of Newton Videos - Inspiration & News
You’ve probably already listened at Saint Antony Monastery.
You might be interested in the Orientale Lumen Conference Liturgies. EuroEast I are in Constantinople. I know there have been other *Orientale Lumen * Conferences in Constantinople but I’m not sure if other of the liturgies were filmed there. You’ll have to wade through the credits at the start to see where they were filmed.
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Aramis
Guest
Wrong on two counts: the Maronites were out of communion by being completely isolated from Rome; the Italo-Albanians never lost contact nor left communion even involuntarily.100% the Maronites are the only group that have never been out of communion with Rome. The other Eastern Catholics are members of Orthodox Churches that returned to communion with the Holy See after the Schism.
The Italo-Albanians have never been out of communion. Ever. They have always been under the Pope as their Patriarch, despite use of the Byzantine Rite.
Further, the Maronites never broke communion, but that is not the same as being in communion. There is no Communion between two particular churches when one is cut off from all communication with the other, especially by a sea of others who are not. Communion was restored, which implies that it was lost. That they had lost communion is a known quantity. THat they recognized Rome as the center of the Church doesn’t mean that any practical communion existed.
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malphono
Guest
I have no interest in having yet another go-around on this same issue, but I have to make one (and only one) comment:Wrong on two counts: the Maronites were out of communion by being completely isolated from Rome; the Italo-Albanians never lost contact nor left communion even involuntarily.
The Italo-Albanians have never been out of communion. Ever. They have always been under the Pope as their Patriarch, despite use of the Byzantine Rite.
Further, the Maronites never broke communion, but that is not the same as being in communion. There is no Communion between two particular churches when one is cut off from all communication with the other, especially by a sea of others who are not. Communion was restored, which implies that it was lost. That they had lost communion is a known quantity. THat they recognized Rome as the center of the Church doesn’t mean that any practical communion existed.
The situation of the Maronites is less cut-and-dried than you would portray it: there are differences of opinion on the matter. So, no, it’s not a “known quantity” and there is no “implication” of anything. Whether or not “maintenance of activity” is necessary for the maintenance of communion ultimately remains an unanswered question.
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malphono
Guest
With the noted exception of the Italo-Greek (aka Italo-Albanian) Church.100% the Maronites are the only group that have never been out of communion with Rome. The other Eastern Catholics are members of Orthodox Churches that returned to communion with the Holy See after the Schism.
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Aramis
Guest
Considering the Maronite isolation appears to have been rooted in at least a portion of the clerics adhering to heresy…I have no interest in having yet another go-around on this same issue, but I have to make one (and only one) comment:
The situation of the Maronites is less cut-and-dried than you would portray it: there are differences of opinion on the matter. So, no, it’s not a “known quantity” and there is no “implication” of anything. Whether or not “maintenance of activity” is necessary for the maintenance of communion ultimately remains an unanswered question.
If one wants to be picayune, the Maronites having been riddled with heretics would therefore have broken communion during the 6th C.
One could also be extremely picayune and point out the Italo-Albanians were suppressed for about 5 years when some group came and took over rome, installing an anti-pope.
But the lack of any real contact, plus being surrounded other groups not in communion with them who were, themselves, still in communion with rome.
If that’s “unclear” then I’d hate to see “hazy”…
Pro-Maronite revisionism isn’t going to change the facts… while they never rejected Papal primacy, and given the chance, jumped at reunion, but that’s exactly what it was… RE-union. Restoration of union.
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5Loaves
Guest
Aydan-
Are you aware of the Melkite Readings of the Day subscriptions here? I have the Daily Readings of the day in English sent to my cell phone email. I imagine you can subscribe to both English and Arabic.Melkite Catholics, Maronite Catholics, and Chaldeans all speak Arabic, and incorporate it into the Liturgy.
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malphono
Guest
You are free to believe whatever you wish, but “riddled with heretics” is just a bit much. And speaking of heretics, one could here raise the specter of Honorius. I won’t.Considering the Maronite isolation appears to have been rooted in at least a portion of the clerics adhering to heresy…
If one wants to be picayune, the Maronites having been riddled with heretics would therefore have broken communion during the 6th C.
Re-union to your eye maybe.Pro-Maronite revisionism isn’t going to change the facts… while they never rejected Papal primacy, and given the chance, jumped at reunion, but that’s exactly what it was… RE-union. Restoration of union.
And, BTW, if you think I’m a pro-Rome “revisionist” you’re sadly mistaken.
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Hesychios
Guest
Waiting for what?Is China waiting?
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Aydan
Guest
no I wasn’t. What a great resource! Very cool. Thanks for sharing.
Aydan-
Are you aware of the Melkite Readings of the Day subscriptions here? I have the Daily Readings of the day in English sent to my cell phone email. I imagine you can subscribe to both English and Arabic.
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beloved1
Guest
Don’t be afraid of the maronite church.I am not maronite or Middle Eastern. There are only a few easterners that bash the maronites.The maronites are a simple, monastic church and maybe that is what scares some. May God bless you in your journey.
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beloved1
Guest
Please also remember that the Catholic Church is Universal and you are free to worship in any of the 22 churches that comprise the Catholic church without changing church sui juris:thumbsup:
God bless you!
God bless you!
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Aydan
Guest
very true but can someone tell me why is it so hard to officially change rites in the church is truly universa?l I just don’t get it I mean I just don’t understand why they make such a bureaucratic process out of itPlease also remember that the Catholic Church is Universal and you are free to worship in any of the 22 churches that comprise the Catholic church without changing church sui juris:thumbsup:
God bless you!
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Aramis
Guest
Going eastward isn’t hard… now… it’s write two bishops a letter, and state your intent before the pastor. (And the pastor notifies the place in charge of your records… the parish you were baptized in.)very true but can someone tell me why is it so hard to officially change rites in the church is truly universa?l I just don’t get it I mean I just don’t understand why they make such a bureaucratic process out of it
Going west is intentionally much harder now… because the Eastern Catholic Churches were depopulating due to a strong pressure in the 19th C to latinize; if not the person, then the liturgy.
The difficulty is specifically to reduce the numbers who actually formally go Latin.
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Aydan
Guest
but that is exactly my point why does it have to involve bishops and all of that for someone like me who doesn’t have a lot of Eastern churches near me I’ve got no option for getting out of the Latin rite and it’s just not fair I don’t mind staying at my Latin Church because it’s the only option I have that practical since the Maronite church is so far away. I just don’t wanna be Latin and I don’t see why I should be forced to remain that way. I just simply do not understand why the church makes it so difficult. I don’t speak Latin not even if we are saying it as part of the mass I will speak in English or Turkish instead because I do not consider myself nor do I have any desire to be a Latin Catholic. I just happen to go to a Latin Church but that does not make me a Latin Catholic because in my heart I’m not a just too bad that the church makes it so difficult for me to reflect that. It makes me wonder if the church really is one church. if that were true then why couldn’t I just consider myself a Coptic Catholic and continue to go to my Latin Church since there is not a Coptic Catholic church near me as long as I learned the Coptic liturgy so the church doesn’t seem very universal to me but that’s my opinion. I do know this the paper may say I’m Latin but my heart is not.
Going eastward isn’t hard… now… it’s write two bishops a letter, and state your intent before the pastor. (And the pastor notifies the place in charge of your records… the parish you were baptized in.)
Going west is intentionally much harder now… because the Eastern Catholic Churches were depopulating due to a strong pressure in the 19th C to latinize; if not the person, then the liturgy.
The difficulty is specifically to reduce the numbers who actually formally go Latin.
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