How do I choose a Church?

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Through His ministers. Just like David actually did. The written words of the Psalm he wrote don’t change the reality of what David actually did, simply because he omits to mention God’s minister.
God reveals to us in His written word that David said the following;

“I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” Psalm 32:5

jmcrae reveals to us in his fallible human intellect that David meant following even though he didn’t say it;

I will confess my transgressions to the LORD through Nathan, jmcrae 10:5

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God reveals to us in His written word that David said the following;

“I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” Psalm 32:5
Actually David reveals to us in David’s written word that he confessed his sin to the Lord. He does not mention how he did this. Someone else records the “how” for us in II Samuel 12.
jmcrae reveals to us in his fallible human intellect that David meant following even though he didn’t say it;
I will confess my transgressions to the LORD through Nathan, jmcrae 10:5
jmcrae is using her common sense and looking at what actually happened, in order to intelligently interpret what was said. 🙂
 
Actually David reveals to us in David’s written word that he confessed his sin to the Lord. He does not mention how he did this. Someone else records the “how” for us in II Samuel 12.
Actually you are wrong again as the following statement from Psalm 32:5 clearly says that David will confess his transgressions to the LORD.

“I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” Psalm 32:5
jmcrae is using her common sense and looking at what actually happened, in order to intelligently interpret what was said.
Please post the biblical evidence for what actually happen in order to prove to me that all the times that David confessed his sins to the LORD he did it through Nathan or someone else.

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Yes it’s plainly obvious that if a person said “they went to confession and confessed their sins to God”, that people would know this person meant they confessed their sins to God through a man who calls himself a priest.

However it’s also plainly obvious that if a person said “they confessed their sins to God”, that this meant they confessed their sins directly to God.
It’s also plainly obvious that if I left out the info about going to a confessional (even though that’s what I did) and merely said, “I confessed my sins to God” I would be telling the truth.
There’s no need to assume when the following statement in Psalm 32:5 so obviously means what its says; “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” and just like “Sing to Him a new song;” Psalm 33:3, so obviously means sing directly to God and not sing to God through so and so.

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The comparison doesn’t hold. Nowhere in the definition of “sing” do we find anything about going to a priest.

However, “confess” can have that meaning. From Webster’s Dictionary:

confess *v.t. *1. to acknowledge or avow (a fault, crime, misdeed, or weakness) by way of revelation. 2. to own or admit as true; concede; *I must confess that I haven’t read it. *3. to declare or acknowledge (one’s sins) esp. to God or a priest. *v.i. *4. to make confession; plead guilty; own; *to confess to a crime. *5. to make a confession of sins, esp. to a priest.

Numbers 1, 2, and 4 don’t deal with sins (at least not in a spiritual sense). But numbers 3 and 5, which do deal with sins, have in their definitions confessing to a priest.

Now, if you want to point out that #3 also says it means confessing to God, I have never denied that. What I take issue with is your idea that the definition of “confess” in the verse you quoted *must mean confessing directly to God *when *nothing in that verse eliminates the other definition of confessing to a priest. *That has been my point all along.

If you want to argue that the verse says “to the Lord” instead of “to a priest” I argue that confessing to a priest has always had within it the meaning of confessing to God through the priest, never the meaning of confessing just to the priest. You admitted this youself when you said, “Yes it’s plainly obvious that if a person said ‘they went to confession and confessed their sins to God’, that people would know this person meant they confessed their sins to God through a man who calls himself a priest.” And I have further demonstrated that even if all I said was “I confessed my sins to God” that doesn’t eliminate the method of doing it through a priest.

So, if you want to argue that it means confessing directly, you’ll have to go to the context of the verse, including its historical context. However, since jmcrae is more knowledgable in this area, I’ll let the two of you slug that out.

But I would think at this point I’ve demonstrated that “confess” in that verse doesn’t automatically mean confessing directly to God, unless, of course, you want to argue with the dictionary.

In other words, that verse cannot be used to show that God desires us to confess to Him directly, since confessing through a priest is completely compatible with it.
 
When i was trying to choose a church, I went to over 18 churches claiming scripture alone as their authority. i then asked each pastor what baptism was, if it was necessary for salvation and if it removed the stain of original sin, and what manner it was to be performed(immersion, pouring, sprinkling)…

I received a different answer from every one of them.

This then proved that scripture alone is insufficient and that none of these churches were truly led by the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit, being God Himself, does not err. They all gave me contradicting acswers to a seemingly simple question and a main tenet of the Christian faith. It was chaotic and divisive in the answers i received, yet they all claimed they were correct and being led by the Holy Spirit in their answers.

I then wnet and searched Church History and early writings from the church and found only catholic doctrine for the most part in the first 1500 years of christendom. i was shocked and even offended by this, as i was very anti catholic.

I studied and fought God for three years and then joined RCIA and was Catholic 9 months later.
 
The Catholic Church is a bible believing church. Why do you think we read 2 readings from the Old Testament and 2 readings from the New Testament each Sunday. Then, the priest gives a homily on it. You should go with what God tells you and what makes you feel more comfortable. I’m happy with the Catholic Church. But, go with what you like. And don’t let anyone tell you different.

May the Lord guide you on your decision & God Bless! +
They only read 3 different passages each Sunday.
 
They only read 3 different passages each Sunday.
Plus two, every day of the week, for a total of 15 Scripture passages read out at Mass every week. Plus the five each day that we pray in the Rosary, and the two each morning and two each evening that we pray in the Breviary.

This is not counting the many Psalms that are used in the Mass and in the Breviary, as well. 🙂
 
Plus two, every day of the week, for a total of 15 Scripture passages read out at Mass every week. Plus the five each day that we pray in the Rosary, and the two each morning and two each evening that we pray in the Breviary.

This is not counting the many Psalms that are used in the Mass and in the Breviary, as well. 🙂
Maybe so, but the post I was replying to only mentioned Sunday mass readings.
 
When i was trying to choose a church, I went to over 18 churches claiming scripture alone as their authority. i then asked each pastor what baptism was, if it was necessary for salvation and if it removed the stain of original sin, and what manner it was to be performed(immersion, pouring, sprinkling)…

I received a different answer from every one of them.

This then proved that scripture alone is insufficient and that none of these churches were truly led by the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit, being God Himself, does not err. They all gave me contradicting acswers to a seemingly simple question and a main tenet of the Christian faith. It was chaotic and divisive in the answers i received, yet they all claimed they were correct and being led by the Holy Spirit in their answers.

I then wnet and searched Church History and early writings from the church and found only catholic doctrine for the most part in the first 1500 years of christendom. i was shocked and even offended by this, as i was very anti catholic.

I studied and fought God for three years and then joined RCIA and was Catholic 9 months later.
Wow, sounds familiar. I’m pretty much we you were. Finding out about real presence in the eucharist then studying the anglican and their ‘holy presence’ then the ‘symbolism’ of the other protestant faiths. Real presence just makes so much sense to me.

I currently go to a charismatic methodist church and the theme last sunday was ‘Holy Communion’ (which is normally called the Lord’s Supper). The minister went through the different words for communion and what they mean etc and then went through the different faiths and their interpretation of what ‘holy communion’ is. He ended saying God see’s our hearts it doesn’t matter about traditions and doctrine as long as we come to the communion with a clean heart that is all that matters!!!?

🤷
 
Real presence just makes so much sense to me.
You should start coming to Mass. 🙂
I currently go to a charismatic methodist church and the theme last sunday was ‘Holy Communion’ (which is normally called the Lord’s Supper). The minister went through the different words for communion and what they mean etc and then went through the different faiths and their interpretation of what ‘holy communion’ is. He ended saying God see’s our hearts it doesn’t matter about traditions and doctrine as long as we come to the communion with a clean heart that is all that matters!!!?
Um - so, if you are required to approach with a pure heart, do they provide you with some means of cleansing and purifying your heart beforehand - such as going to Confession, or something? 🤷
 
It’s also plainly obvious that if I left out the info about going to a confessional (even though that’s what I did) and merely said, “I confessed my sins to God” I would be telling the truth.
It’s plainly obvious that if you said "“I went to confession and confessed my sins to God” that it meant you confessed your sin to a man who calls himself a priest.

However if you said “I confessed my sins to God”, then it would be plainly obvious that you meant you confessed your sin to God.

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The comparison doesn’t hold. Nowhere in the definition of “sing” do we find anything about going to a priest.
So now you get it, I hope. The point I have made all along is that the statement in Psalm 32:5 from David very clearly tells us that he confessed his transgressions to LORD.

Do you have problem with that fact that people in the Old Testament could speak directly to the LORD? Please read the following verses, which clearly show us that people in the Old Testament spoke directly to the LORD. Confessing is speaking and in the context of Psalm 32:5 it is speaking directly to the LORD.

And Cain said to the LORD, Genesis 4:13

And he (Abraham) said, “Indeed now, I have taken it upon myself to speak to the Lord: Genesis 18:31

Then Moses spoke to the LORD, Numbers 27:15
However, “confess” can have that meaning. From Webster’s Dictionary:
  1. to declare or acknowledge (one’s sins) esp. to God or a priest.
So the little words to and or mean that a person is confessing their sin to God or to the man who calls himself a priest. Now the following statement from David clearly tells us that he will confess his transgressions to the LORD.

“I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” Psalm 32:5
So, if you want to argue that it means confessing directly, you’ll have to go to the context of the verse, including its historical context.
I’ve already said that this verse is in the context of Psalm 32 and this Psalm is addressing Davids relationship with God and not his relationship with Nathan the prophet(he wasn’t a priest) or anyone else.

Also the historical context of this verse is the fact that David was the king of Israel and he sinned like all the rest of humanity and that the king of Israel confessed his sins to the God of Israel.

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They only read 3 different passages each Sunday.
We are the 3 also., 1 old, 1 new and 1 gospel.

On week days 1 old or new and 1 gospel.

On some feast and special occasions we read more.
 
He ended saying God see’s our hearts it doesn’t matter about traditions and doctrine as long as we come to the communion with a clean heart that is all that matters!!!?
Amen,
one of the great things Catholics always do is is begin mass by naming their sins, admitting the fall and asking forgiveness.

Before bringing your gifts to Allah you should do your up most to make peace with your brethren so you do not bring any ill will with your offering.

ill will is not Allah’s will
 
It’s plainly obvious that if you said "“I went to confession and confessed my sins to God” that it meant you confessed your sin to a man who calls himself a priest.

However if you said “I confessed my sins to God”, then it would be plainly obvious that you meant you confessed your sin to God.

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And I could have confessed my sin to God by going through a priest. Nothing in “I confessed my sin to God” means I didn’t do it through a priest.

Why can you not see that? “I confessed to God” says ***absolutely nothing whatsoever ***about the method, either direct or indirect!!!
 
So now you get it, I hope. The point I have made all along is that the statement in Psalm 32:5 from David very clearly tells us that he confessed his transgressions to LORD.

Do you have problem with that fact that people in the Old Testament could speak directly to the LORD? Please read the following verses, which clearly show us that people in the Old Testament spoke directly to the LORD. Confessing is speaking and in the context of Psalm 32:5 it is speaking directly to the LORD.

And Cain said to the LORD, Genesis 4:13

And he (Abraham) said, “Indeed now, I have taken it upon myself to speak to the Lord: Genesis 18:31

Then Moses spoke to the LORD, Numbers 27:15

So the little words to and or mean that a person is confessing their sin to God or to the man who calls himself a priest. Now the following statement from David clearly tells us that he will confess his transgressions to the LORD.

“I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” Psalm 32:5

I’ve already said that this verse is in the context of Psalm 32 and this Psalm is addressing Davids relationship with God and not his relationship with Nathan the prophet(he wasn’t a priest) or anyone else.

Also the historical context of this verse is the fact that David was the king of Israel and he sinned like all the rest of humanity and that the king of Israel confessed his sins to the God of Israel.

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No, you still don’t get it. I very much feel like I’m :banghead: !

My point is that when someone (whether David or anyone else) says, “I confessed my sins to God”, it says nothing about the method under which that was done.

Did you not read anything I wrote? The dictionary definition of “confess” has within it the method of confessing via a priest. You cannot eliminate that definition just because you want to. I have demonstrated over and over that the dictionary definition of confessing via a priest is equally valid for the quote you gave.

And I also said if you wanted to argue context, you would have to do that with jmcrae, not me. Apparently you didn’t pay any attention to that, either.

It bothers me immensely that you think, “So now you get it, I hope.” I have been consistently arguing the same point all along, and I have not changed my position.

Now, one more time, just to be clear: You cannot eliminate the idea of going to a priest from the definition of “confess” in the verse you quoted. The definition of “confess” that includes going to a priest is 100% compatible with the verse. Going by the verse alone, anyone can choose that definition because absolutely nothing in the verse bans that definition.

I never said the verse supports either definition. I basically said it is **unclear **which definition David intended–**which is why you cannot demand that it supports only your definition of going directly to God. **

That has been my position all along. Personally, I wouldn’t have used this verse because of its ambiguity. However, you are the one who brought it up and declared it supported your position. I was merely pointing that isn’t necessarily so, that it can support the other position equally well.

So, now do **you **get it?
 
if it’s acceptable to you, then the Old Testament traditions are ok, but if it’s not, then they’re not ok because Jesus did away with it lol. honestly…

authority rules!
😦 Jesus did not “do away with” the OT ways. He came to make them perfect. We have to keep in mind the OT for us to understand the NT. If we throw away the OT then we are throwing away our Jewish roots. We need them to stay alive. If we cut off our roots we could stand a chance of dying without our roots. They are our foundation on which we build our faith.
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets;
I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Mt 5:17

Authority certainly rules. They had authority in the OT also. And we need authority right now. That is the way Jesus established His Church. He gave that authority to Peter when He gave him the Keys to the Kingdom.
 
I’m addressing the fact that God has revealed to us in Psalm 32 that a person can confess their sins to Him.

I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I have not hidden. I said, **“I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” **and You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Psalm 32:5
Do you think that we Catholics do not confess our sins to God before we go to Confession?
Of course we do. We Catholics do believe in God you know.
 
No, you still don’t get it. I very much feel like I’m :banghead: !

My point is that when someone (whether David or anyone else) says, “I confessed my sins to God”, it says nothing about the method under which that was done.

Did you not read anything I wrote? The dictionary definition of “confess” has within it the method of confessing via a priest. You cannot eliminate that definition just because you want to. I have demonstrated over and over that the dictionary definition of confessing via a priest is equally valid for the quote you gave.

And I also said if you wanted to argue context, you would have to do that with jmcrae, not me. Apparently you didn’t pay any attention to that, either.

It bothers me immensely that you think, “So now you get it, I hope.” I have been consistently arguing the same point all along, and I have not changed my position.

Now, one more time, just to be clear: **You cannot **eliminate the idea of going to a priest from the definition of “confess” in the verse you quoted. The definition of “confess” that includes going to a priest is 100% compatible with the verse. Going by the verse alone, anyone can choose that definition because absolutely nothing in the verse bans that definition.

I never said the verse supports either definition. I basically said it is **unclear **which definition David intended–which is why you cannot demand that it supports only your definition of going directly to God.

That has been my position all along. Personally, I wouldn’t have used this verse because of its ambiguity. However, you are the one who brought it up and declared it supported your position. I was merely pointing that isn’t necessarily so, that it can support the other position equally well.

So, now do **you **get it?
I hope emeraldisle gets it this time. But who knows. Perhaps emeraldisle’s pride is getting in the way of “getting it.” Or perhaps emeraldisle gets it but does not want to admit that we are right. I would never use that passage to prove that confession should be through a priest after you confess to God.

It’s a good thing that the passage used by emeraldisle is not the only passage in the bible. We Catholics read the bible as a whole and we do not rely on only one passage to prove a belief that we have.
 
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