How do I defend the catholic stand agaisnt masturbation?

[PennitentMan]

Like I say, I struggle with this issue. I believe in the Church’s view in theory, but it is in practice that I find it difficult, and I am extremely frustrated.

I’m sorry to hear about your situation.

And even though we are not all in your shoes, I think there are loads of men struggling with this issue.

I think you hit it on the head here…there is a big dfference between theroy and practice in some cases.

I strive to obey the Church in all things, even if I disagree, but I do see a lot of men struggling with this link between lack of intimacy and masturbation, and there are benefits to it such as:
a reduced risk of prostate cancer, releifs stress, depression, lower blood pressure and to quote: “Masturbation can also be particularly useful in relationships where one partner wants more sex than the other — in which case masturbation provides a balancing effect and thus a more harmonious relationship”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masturbation#Benefits
I though Wikipedia was a good neutral source.

So, having said all of this, I know that there is a risk of forming a habbit, and it may open the door to lust, but one can definately keep things in context.

I know I’m not going to change the stance of the Catholic Church with this statement, and I will still submit to her teachigns, but aren’t we doing this to the detrement of our own health?

PM

 

[PennitentMan]

So, to answer the OP simply, it’s very very tough…

 

[petri]

I’m sorry to hear about your situation.

And even though we are not all in your shoes, I think there are loads of men struggling with this issue.

I think you hit it on the head here…there is a big dfference between theroy and practice in some cases.

I strive to obey the Church in all things, even if I disagree, but I do see a lot of men struggling with this link between lack of intimacy and masturbation, and there are benefits to it such as:
a reduced risk of prostate cancer, releifs stress, depression, lower blood pressure and to quote: “Masturbation can also be particularly useful in relationships where one partner wants more sex than the other — in which case masturbation provides a balancing effect and thus a more harmonious relationship”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masturbation#Benefits
I though Wikipedia was a good neutral source.

So, having said all of this, I know that there is a risk of forming a habbit, and it may open the door to lust, but one can definately keep things in context.

I know I’m not going to change the stance of the Catholic Church with this statement, and I will still submit to her teachigns, but aren’t we doing this to the detrement of our own health?

PM

taken from www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/112720157/abstract :
“To investigate the possible role of celibate lifestyles in the etiology of prostate cancer, analyses of mortality from cancers of the prostate and other sites among an average annual cohort of 6,226 Roman Catholic clergymen in New York State from 1965 through 1977 were conducted. The death certificates of 1006 (95%) priests were reviewed. Of these 156 deaths were attributable to malignant neoplasms. Clerics experienced mortality ratios of 15% less for all causes of death and 30% less for cancer mortality, given mortality patterns among New York State white males of comparable ages. Twelve deaths from prostatic cancer were observed while 19.8 were expected. This represents a mortality experience significantly less than that of the general noncelibate population. Lower mortality ratios were found also for cancers of the lung, colo-rectum, and stomach. Higher mortality ratios were found for malignant melanoma and unspecified respiratory organs.”

I don’t say it says the opposite of the study mentioned by you;

still, I wonder whether your study should be a reason for us to masturbate… cancer is quite a complicated process…
just a theoretical question: couldn’t God spare us of it (with connection to masturbation) when we try to follow Church’s teaching? it would be interesting to see, whether the frequency would be higher among the Catholics who don’t masturbate

about problems in marriage - I am not married, so I don’t know - how do people solve it? any other catholic suggestions for solving that? do they really masturbate or do they have a different solution?

 

[Ruthie]

I’d like to address the statement that there is no Biblical prohibition of masturbation.

In the story of Onan (Gen 38:8-10), he is supposed to give his late brother an heir by procreating (so to speak) with the widow. He does this, but “spills his seed on the ground” instead of honestly trying to make a baby.

There is already a punishment laid down for this: “then his brother’s wife shall go up to him in the presence of the elders, and pull his sandal off his foot, and spit in his face; and she shall answer and say, `So shall it be done to the man who does not build up his brother’s house.’” (The whole passage is DT 25:5-10; I’m quoting v. 9.)

Why would the Lord kill Onan, when He had already given a punishment for failing to provide an heir? The only other thing Onan did was to spill his seed on the ground. Thus…

Ruthie

 

[thomfra]

This is a pretty tough one to discuss in Protestant circles. I have seen websites that basically say that almost anything goes in the marriage bed (and these are from very Christian types). Including oral sex, anal sex, masturbation.

They claim that there are no direct prohibitions against any of these things in the bible so as long as everyone is accepting of them, they can do them with no moral problem!!!

This sounds like more sensible attitude to me.

 

[thomfra]

I’d like to address the statement that there is no Biblical prohibition of masturbation.

In the story of Onan (Gen 38:8-10), he is supposed to give his late brother an heir by procreating (so to speak) with the widow. He does this, but “spills his seed on the ground” instead of honestly trying to make a baby.

There is already a punishment laid down for this: “then his brother’s wife shall go up to him in the presence of the elders, and pull his sandal off his foot, and spit in his face; and she shall answer and say, `So shall it be done to the man who does not build up his brother’s house.’” (The whole passage is DT 25:5-10; I’m quoting v. 9.)

Why would the Lord kill Onan, when He had already given a punishment for failing to provide an heir? The only other thing Onan did was to spill his seed on the ground. Thus…

Ruthie

That’s good one ruthie. But unless it was Jesus doing the sandal slapping you’ll have a hard time convincing me that there is anything wrong with it.

It’s normal. Healthy.

 

[thomfra]

about problems in marriage - I am not married, so I don’t know - how do people solve it? any other catholic suggestions for solving that? do they really masturbate or do they have a different solution?

You will find most Catholics masturbate when they feel like they need to. Most will not give it a second thought I should imagine.

 

[thomfra]

I am discussing this subject with a person. This person doesn’t consider this a sin. He claims that since it doesn’t hurt anyone, it isn’t a sin. That it doesn’t take away from sex. and that it isnt even sex. I know that this is a sin, but i don’t know how to convey it in a way that this person could understand. This person claims that the view of a masturbation as a sin isn’t biblical. Im a poor apologist. Please help.

Forget it. You will never convince him it’s a sin. There is no victim.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

It’s normal. Healthy.

Ah ah, thomfra, in moral theology – as in math class – you have to show your work.

VC

 

[Verbum_Caro]

You will find most Catholics masturbate when they feel like they need to. Most will not give it a second thought I should imagine.

i.e. “But moooooooooooom, everyone’s doing it!”

(What’s your reponse when your kids pull this one on you, thomfra?)

VC

 

[Verbum_Caro]

There is no victim.

Ah, a classic argument (one of the first!): “You will surely not die!”

VC

 

[Janet_S]

“The abandonment of the reproductive function is the common feature of all sexual perversions. We actually describe a sexual activity as perverse if it has given up the aim of reproduction and pursues the attainment of pleasure as an aim independent of it.”

books.google.com/books?id=Sfz0l6WSqFgC&pg=PA392&lpg=PA392&dq=The+abandonment+of+the+reproductive+function+is+the+common+feature+of+all+sexual+perversions.+We+actually+describe+a+sexual+activity+as+perverse+if+it+has+given+up+the+aim+of+reproduction+and+pursues+the+attainment+of+pleasure+as+an+aim+independent+of+it.%E2%80%93Sigmund+Freud&source=web&ots=xP4Ra9SaEd&sig=cHJTd5VPnSGTU1bHDDY7x-fM55U&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

You’ll be surprised where this quote came from.

Hint: it’s not a pope; or even a Catholic for that matter.

 

[Cordelil]

From what I gather it’s against Catholic law (“Catechism of the Catholic Church” - page 564) to masturbate. I am sure it’s violated by many lay and clergy. I don’t think it’s a big deal per se unless it’s an obsession and becomes mentally or physically unhealthy. Frankly, I think as far as sin is concerned there are much “bigger fish to fry” and making a fuss about masturbating is a waste of time.

John

 

[davidv]

From what I gather it’s against Catholic law (“Catechism of the Catholic Church” - page 564) to masturbate.

Since “Catholic law” is God’s law, I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss it

I am sure it’s violated by many lay and clergy.

.
So what? Murders happens everyday. Does that make it OK?

I don’t think it’s a big deal per se unless it’s an obsession and becomes mentally or physically unhealthy. Frankly, I think as far as sin is concerned there are much “bigger fish to fry” and making a fuss about masturbating is a waste of time.

John

Sin is sin and a “fuss” must be made of it. It is not a waste of time to get someone to heaven.

 

[Cordelil]

Since “Catholic law” is God’s law, I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss it
.
So what? Murders happens everyday. Does that make it OK?

Sin is sin and a “fuss” must be made of it. It is not a waste of time to get someone to heaven.

Equating masturbation to murder is “way over the top.” This cannot be taken seriously. Now, go outside and smell the fresh air and be happy for all that God has given you.

John

 

[davidv]

Equating masturbation to murder is “way over the top.”

How can a gravely disordered act against the wishes of our Creator be considered “over the top”. And since you missed it, I was not equating the two. I was applying the same principle (“it being done so it is OK”) to both

This cannot be taken seriously.

.
So? Many don’t taken serious things seriously.

Now, go outside and smell the fresh air and be happy for all that God has given you.

John

I am already happy and greatful for what God has given me. And I don’t have to go outside and smell the fresh air to do so. I also don’t have to pretend that mastrubation is not a sin.

 

[Pete_1]

Forget it. You will never convince him it’s a sin. There is no victim.

God is the one offended by masturbation.

 

[Muzhik]

First off, to deal with the “sin of Onan”:

Onan’s sin wasn’t masturbation. (You can find this story in Genesis 38.) Judah was the father of Er and Onan. Tamar married Er, who died. Onan’s sin was to practice a form of birth control, what we call today “pull and pray”, i.e., withdrawing before ejaculation. He did this because as long as Tamar didn’t have a male child, Er’s property (livestock, etc.) belonged to him. G_D, on the other hand, had plans for this child, which is why after Onan died, Tamar had twins with Judah. This is the same Judah that is listed in the biblical genealogies for Jesus.

As for masturbation, you can understand why it’s sinful because of basketball. When psychologists were first investigating what we now call “visualization”, one experiment involved having one group of subjects practiced free throws for 30 minutes a day, a second group did math for 30 minutes a day, and the third group “visualized” throwing free throws for 30 minutes a day. After 30 days, the math group had no improvement in throwing free throws; the free throw group had a large improvement, and the visualization group had almost as good an improvement as those who had actually thrown free throws. This proves that it’s possible to train the body to react in a specific way to stimuli that you are just imagining.

Now consider masturbation. It frequently involves visualizing women with whom you may or may not be involved. This means you are training your body to react in specific ways to imagined stimuli. Ask yourself if you’re training your body to react to the woman you are married to, and to react in a romantic and loving way? If not, just what are you training your body to do? This is why Jesus said that if you look at a woman with lust you have sinned against her.

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[UndertheRadar]

You will find most Catholics masturbate when they feel like they need to. Most will not give it a second thought I should imagine.

Most? What did you take a poll? Or is it what you want to believe because you see nothing wrong with it?

 

[ComputerGeek25]

First off, to deal with the “sin of Onan”:

Onan’s sin wasn’t masturbation. (You can find this story in Genesis 38.) Judah was the father of Er and Onan. Tamar married Er, who died. Onan’s sin was to practice a form of birth control, what we call today “pull and pray”, i.e., withdrawing before ejaculation. He did this because as long as Tamar didn’t have a male child, Er’s property (livestock, etc.) belonged to him. G_D, on the other hand, had plans for this child, which is why after Onan died, Tamar had twins with Judah. This is the same Judah that is listed in the biblical genealogies for Jesus.

As for masturbation, you can understand why it’s sinful because of basketball. When psychologists were first investigating what we now call “visualization”, one experiment involved having one group of subjects practiced free throws for 30 minutes a day, a second group did math for 30 minutes a day, and the third group “visualized” throwing free throws for 30 minutes a day. After 30 days, the math group had no improvement in throwing free throws; the free throw group had a large improvement, and the visualization group had almost as good an improvement as those who had actually thrown free throws. This proves that it’s possible to train the body to react in a specific way to stimuli that you are just imagining.

Now consider masturbation. It frequently involves visualizing women with whom you may or may not be involved. This means you are training your body to react in specific ways to imagined stimuli. Ask yourself if you’re training your body to react to the woman you are married to, and to react in a romantic and loving way? If not, just what are you training your body to do? This is why Jesus said that if you look at a woman with lust you have sinned against her.

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