How do I defend the catholic stand agaisnt masturbation?

[Bob_Byrnes]

Masturbation is the satisfaction of a human appetite for pure pleasure. If it is wrong, so is a chocolate sundae which is also the satisfaction of a human appetite for pure pleasure.

It’s just another offshoot of the sexual ethic of the Church. It’s what you get when you give old celibate males the authority to make rules about sex and marriage. Would you let non-drivers make all the traffic rules???

 

[william51]

move on this one is boring

 

[suppliant]

Perhaps it’s boring to you because you do not struggle with this problem. I find this to be a very enlightening discourse and am encouraged to see that no topics are taboo and can be dealt with and discussed intelligently.

 

[katy]

Masturbation is the satisfaction of a human appetite for pure pleasure. If it is wrong, so is a chocolate sundae which is also the satisfaction of a human appetite for pure pleasure.

It’s just another offshoot of the sexual ethic of the Church. It’s what you get when you give old celibate males the authority to make rules about sex and marriage. Would you let non-drivers make all the traffic rules???

Why not? People without cancer discover the treatments. These are human problems which other humans can understand quite well, thank you.

 

[turnorburn]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Do you feel like this when your engaged in it, everyone has done it, did I say that, I said everyone has done it. When your in Christ your a new creation the old things are past, this only works for those that have fellowship with Jesus.

 

[Harmony1988]

A thought can’t hurt anybody either. That’s the whole point. People may think of killing somebody…but if they don’t do it. there is no victim.

Where did you get the notion that for something to be wrong it has to ‘hurt’ someone. Then there is the case of physical hurt, mental hurt, verbal abuse, and then within that the degrees of hurt.

I specifically brought this out, because the OP mentioned “sin”.
Leaving aside the religious connotations, the secular society generally sees “sins” in public, even though they aren’t of a religious nature. Admitting to paedophilic thoughts is one of them, that will immediately send warning signals throughout society.

No one can be prosecuted for it, as it hasn’t gone into action, however the concept of sin still exists, which is deemed wrong.
For something to be wrong, it doesn’t have to be killing.

There is also the fact that excessively thinking of certain things and scenarios may eventually lead you to end up doing it, this has some basis to it. Such as thinking of depressing thoughts all the time will no doubt lead you to live a depressed life, having murderous thoughts may lead you to end up losing control at some point whilst in an angry mood. Though whilst in thoughts you aren’t inflicting damage, you are setting up a pretty good pre-requisite for trouble should a scenario arrive.
Whilst in the masturbation/thoughts scenario, this may not apply, your reasoning is faulty that if it doesn’t affect anyone else then it isn’t wrong.

What if it affects the individual doing it, in a mental sense, and he doesn’t realize it, and suffers over time, is it still wrong then? Or does it depend on realization? Perhaps it’s subjective? Then maybe actions aren’t wrong either then, infact who is to say I’m wrong to say…kill someone with no reason at all? Would it be society? and where did they get this idea of “wrong”, the law? Where did the law get it from? I could be here all day, but you see the point.

What is wrong with masturbation is, not only can it become an addiction, it reduces another human into an object solely of pleasure, you may not be physically hurting them, but what we can be sure of is it ultimately reduces the individual’s thoughts to look for people who can generate the most amount of lust in them which can be a failing point for marriage later on as one’s standards for a woman has been distorted into a purely sexual sense.

 

[Harmony1988]

Masturbation is the satisfaction of a human appetite for pure pleasure. If it is wrong, so is a chocolate sundae which is also the satisfaction of a human appetite for pure pleasure.

It’s just another offshoot of the sexual ethic of the Church. It’s what you get when you give old celibate males the authority to make rules about sex and marriage. Would you let non-drivers make all the traffic rules???

So who determines what is wrong with regards to pure pleasure? Why have any ethics if it impedes my want for “pure pleasure” - what if two people want to mutually mutilate themselves in public? They aren’t ‘hurting’ anyone, and it’s upto the public to watch what they want to. So they could walk right by without watching anything.

In either case, there are infinitely many scenarios we could come up with about ‘pure pleasure’ that will definitely displease one class of people or the other, and we can get around that by arguing about relativistic ethics.

This can then be further expanded to doing anything I want without repercussions.

 

[benkim]

What is wrong with masturbation is, not only can it become an addiction, it reduces another human into an object solely of pleasure, you may not be physically hurting them, but what we can be sure of is it ultimately reduces the individual’s thoughts to look for people who can generate the most amount of lust in them which can be a failing point for marriage later on as one’s standards for a woman has been distorted into a purely sexual sense.

I’ve even said in a post before: masturbation does not require lust, dwelling of sexual fantasies, etc. It does not generate lust, it doesn’t have to have anything to do with lust.
Most Catholic theologians don’t believe that masturbation is even a sin until one becomes so obsessed with it such that he or she actually starts ruining relationships and such. That’s when you actually start hurting yourself.

 

[sancte_joseph]

Im recovering from a masturbation addiction…and I have learned that it is a sin because it makes you (name removed by moderator)ure and you abuse the pleasure that God gave you so babies can be made.

saying that it doesn’t hurt people just means that you don’t see how much it hurts you and God because he doesn’t want any of his Children to be hurt.

To end I’ll say a story about Saint Dominic Savio

One day, a fellow brought a magazine full of bad pictures to school. A group of boys gathered around.

“What’s up?” wondered Dominic, and he, too, went to look. Just one peek was enough for him. He grabbed the magazine and tore it to pieces! “Poor us!” he cried in the meantime, “Did God give us eyes to look at such things as this? Aren’t you ashamed?”

“Oh, we were just looking at these pictures for the fun of it,” said one boy.
“Sure, for fun,” answered Dominic, “and in the meantime you’re preparing yourselves to go to hell!”

“Oh, what’s so wrong about looking at these pictures anyway?” another fellow demanded.

Dominic had a ready answer. “If you don’t see anything wrong,” he said sadly, “this is even worse.” It means you’re used to looking at shameful things!"

 

[dessert]

You can’t defend the stance that masturbation is a sin because it is indicated nowhere in any of the Scriptures. Onan was

**Masturbation is against the natural law. Natural law is in the bible. Onan was going against the natural law. **

 

[thomfra]

What is wrong with masturbation is, not only can it become an addiction, it reduces another human into an object solely of pleasure, you may not be physically hurting them, but what we can be sure of is it ultimately reduces the individual’s thoughts to look for people who can generate the most amount of lust in them which can be a failing point for marriage later on as one’s standards for a woman has been distorted into a purely sexual sense.

Anything can “become an addiction”. It takes more than masturbation to objectify women.

I don’t know where you got this one from.

I’m still wating for the evidence (hard scientific facts) that masturbation (i.e. normal - a couple of times a week - or day for teenagers he he has a detrimental effect on the person doing it, or those around them. I think I’ll be waiting a while.

 

[thomfra]

…masturbation can possibly lead to sex with animals…

And here’s me thinking I’d heard everything…

 

[thomfra]

Im recovering from a masturbation addiction…and I have learned that it is a sin because it makes you (name removed by moderator)ure and you abuse the pleasure that God gave you so babies can be made.

saying that it doesn’t hurt people just means that you don’t see how much it hurts you and God because he doesn’t want any of his Children to be hurt.

To end I’ll say a story about Saint Dominic Savio

One day, a fellow brought a magazine full of bad pictures to school. A group of boys gathered around.

“What’s up?” wondered Dominic, and he, too, went to look. Just one peek was enough for him. He grabbed the magazine and tore it to pieces! “Poor us!” he cried in the meantime, “Did God give us eyes to look at such things as this? Aren’t you ashamed?”

“Oh, we were just looking at these pictures for the fun of it,” said one boy.
“Sure, for fun,” answered Dominic, “and in the meantime you’re preparing yourselves to go to hell!”

“Oh, what’s so wrong about looking at these pictures anyway?” another fellow demanded.

Dominic had a ready answer. “If you don’t see anything wrong,” he said sadly, “this is even worse.” It means you’re used to looking at shameful things!"

How exaclty do you define a masturbation addiction? were you diagnosed by a doctor, a priest, or is this a self diagnosis?

 

[benkim]

Anything can “become an addiction”

Exactly. Watching television can be an addiction as well as going on the internet. Saying that masturbation is a sin because it can be addictive isn’t a valid point to make. I’m not supporting masturbation or saying that it’s a sin. I’m just pointing out that a lot of these arguments against masturbation just don’t work.

 

[GraceDK]

If I accept masturbation, I must also accept homosexual acts. For me those two things are one of a kind.

 

[teachccd]

** …And masturbation can possibly lead to sex with animals… **

Thank goodness my beagle can’t talk… :bigyikes:

 

[ForwardProgress]

Comments like those by Dessert are why I no longer truly trust the moral theology ‘advice’ given here on this board. I will completely trust my priests and other confessors that I run into. This is a great board for apologetics, but for moral theology and how it relates to real-life, I’ll pass. It is entertaining, though!

 

[teachccd]

Comments like those by Dessert are why I no longer truly trust the moral theology ‘advice’ given here on this board. I will completely trust my priests and other confessors that I run into. This is a great board for apologetics, but for moral theology and how it relates to real-life, I’ll pass. It is entertaining, though!

Nor should you. While the many responses are in good faith and represent official Church teachings they are still subject to error. This is a discussion forum and not an official resource of the Church. Kept in that light, discern and learn…teachccd

 

[Ruthie]

Leaving Catholic teaching and the question of sin and hell out of it, masturbation is still harmful, because it is purely self-pleasuring.

This can lead to selfish sex, where the whole point is my pleasure, and the other person is just an object through which that pleasure is obtained. That’s abusive. It’s strengthened when one uses fantasy or pornography as an aid.

It can also lead to preferring masturbation to sex with one’s spouse, because that other person’s needs might interfere with my pleasure.

For those who say the point of masturbation is not pleasure, substitute the word “orgasm.”

Ruthie

 

[Calliso]

Leaving Catholic teaching and the question of sin and hell out of it, masturbation is still harmful, because it is purely self-pleasuring.

This can lead to selfish sex, where the whole point is my pleasure, and the other person is just an object through which that pleasure is obtained. That’s abusive. It’s strengthened when one uses fantasy or pornography as an aid.

It can also lead to preferring masturbation to sex with one’s spouse, because that other person’s needs might interfere with my pleasure.

For those who say the point of masturbation is not pleasure, substitute the word “orgasm.”

Ruthie

It can lead to all this…but it can also help sex with ones spouse. Really if you leave out the Catholic teaching masturbation is one of those things that can either help or hurt/