How do I explain to someone being 90% naked is immoral

[BobObob]

I think you should read further along, see definition of a “Swim suit” I don’t use the word bikini, it’s not really a word that used in adult conversation, once again, when I say swim suit the reference is “Sports illustrated Swimsuit edition swimsuit” Victoria’s secret “Swim suit”.

Would you see the mother of our savior in this type of swimming attire? As a male, I can say that the attire those women ages 18-25 have taken on these day’s is overtly sexual.

Society badgers men about what “pigs” they are, what about what women are, rather than your own opinion why not look of that what our lord had to say? If men are “pigs” what are the women that lead them to be that way? Sin must come into this world but woe to those who the occasion comes through.

Google Swimsuit without filter and look at the images, that is what society defines as a swimsuit.

I think it is good to keep in perspective the fact that not only modesty changes in various ages and in various cultures, but also generally the areas of the body that are typically socially acceptable to expose in a given culture is usually “de-sexualized”. For example, in some places in Africa it is normal for women to be topless in public. In those cultures, doing so would not incite lust in the local men, because that part of the body isn’t sexualized, but it likely would for a visitor from America.

It seems to me that the type of swimsuit wearing you are referring to is immoral because it is intended to arouse others. A woman who is wearing a scanty swimsuit for the purpose of arousing other men would be sinning, while women walking nude in an African culture where nudity is acceptable wouldn’t.

Regarding what we would imagine Mary wearing is subjective. Personally, being from America where nudity is rarely socially acceptable, I would have a hard time imagining that she would wear anything less than she is depicted as wearing. On the other hand, I’m sure she would do whatever is appropriate for the situation.

 

[MikiBee]

if you want us to respond to what you mean, state it in your OP we don’t read minds, we just go by what you say. you said swimsuit most us would not be caught dead in public with suits as revealing as those in SI, and have no intention of visiting that website and being caught in occasion of sin. Bikini is a perfectly acceptable word, it is an island in the Pacific. If any man, personally, has so little self-control that he cannot avoid be aroused to sinful thoughts at the sight of a woman in a normal, modest swimsuit he needs to stay off the beach

I completely agree with this. People need to learn to take responsibility for themselves. If men can’t look at a woman in a bikini without thinking lustfully about her, he is the one that has the problem. He is the one that should stay away from the beaches. That’s like saying I shouldn’t go to a restaurant and have a glass of wine because I could be seated next to a recovering alcoholic.

 

[ALLGIRLS]

“From my particular point of view , the only thing that you can do, is make an ugly woman your wife.”

“*If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife, so from my personal point of view, get an ugly girl to marry you.” *



I haven’t thought about that song in YEARS! It was on an album I had when I was a kid (I’m 39 now) called “Dumb Ditties.” “Monster Mash” and “My ding-a-ling” (kind of a dirty song, now that I think of those lyrics ), and “I’m getting nothing for Christmas.” were also on it. Thanks for “walk down memory lane”. LOL.

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[RosaryFan]

What I am trying to get at is wearing a swimsuit in public. My significant onther sees this different than I do. She was raised with it being a suitable practice, I on the other hand am utterly opposed to the practice of being immodest to get in return thats “cute” . One of her favorite activites to do is to go out to the lake and as much as I would like to, I never go because how uncomfortable I would be.

I am currently at a university and I see what girls wear these days and I guess I can see why one would think “Whats the big deal with a swimsuit?”. Girls at my university hardly wear clothes any more for that matter and so when girls see other girls dressed in this fashion and see how people give them attention they want the same attention too. How do I even begin the process of getting her to see the parradox of wearing a swimsuit, and so that she stop wearing one because she see’s how it is immoral and hurts her innerself, v.s being scared of my reaction?

I understand where you are coming from, I really do. But what do you wear when you go swimming? I wear a bathing suit to the pool or the beach, but I wouldn’t wear one to the supermarket or to Church. There is an appropriate place to wear a swimsuit, i.e. swimming. It would be quite difficult to do the breast stroke while wearing a wool coat.

 

[dusza]

Perhaps you could explain to her what an average guy thinks when he gives immodestly dressed female his “attention”. I think girls like that are incredibly naive if they think they’ll be more respected. The attention they get is the exact opposite of respect. Not to mention that women who cause men to sin even in their thoughts will be held to account for their causing scandal.

A word of warning: after you’re done explaining, you just might be labeled the lone pervert in the world. Yeah, that naive.

 

[PaulinVA]

… One of her favorite activities to do is to go out to the lake and as much as I would like to, I never go because how uncomfortable I would be.

— How do I even begin the process of getting her to see the paradox of wearing a swimsuit, and so that she stop wearing one because she see’s how it is immoral and hurts her innerself, v.s being scared of my reaction?

Uhm, this is all about you and your attitudes.

This is a subject that people don’t agree on. To try to push your view on your “significant other” says that you know what’s best for her, and she does not.

One can be manipulative and overbearing even if one’s reasons seem right.

 

[1ke]

I think you should read further along, see definition of a “Swim suit” I don’t use the word bikini, it’s not really a word that used in adult conversation, once again, when I say swim suit the reference is “Sports illustrated Swimsuit edition swimsuit” Victoria’s secret “Swim suit”.

What, in your opinion, would proper lake/beach/pool attire be for a woman and a man? In what type of swimwear would you feel comfortable yourself and in what type of swimwear would you approve of your girlfriend and go out in public with her?

 

[Steave]

What, in your opinion, would proper lake/beach/pool attire be for a woman and a man? In what type of swimwear would you feel comfortable yourself and in what type of swimwear would you approve of your girlfriend and go out in public with her?

Something modest, I do not go to the pool alot, but growing up in an immeadiate family of about 30-40 the women would usually wear shorts, and something that would cover more than a bra on top, I do not know if this is common practice, but something along those lines. The point is to be comfortable, while still be respectful of others around you.

 

[MariaTS]

Something modest, I do not go to the pool alot, but growing up in an immeadiate family of about 30-40 the women would usually wear shorts, and something that would cover more than a bra on top, I do not know if this is common practice, but something along those lines. The point is to be comfortable, while still be respectful of others around you.

I hope you realize that, in late spring/early summer, it is simply too hot and impractical to wear shorts and a shirt to a beach. Also, covering more of your body than everyone else there would make others uncomfortable. Just a word of advice.

 

[JohnCS]

I hope you realize that, in late spring/early summer, it is simply too hot and impractical to wear shorts and a shirt to a beach. Also, covering more of your body than everyone else there would make others uncomfortable. Just a word of advice.

Go to the middle east some time if you want to see hot… they are not walking around in bikini’s because of it. I was there and had to wear pants, boots, long sleeves and about 80 lbs of gear and it was a lot hotter than it ever gets on any beach. Using the heat as an excuse to walk around half naked is silly. I guarentee if you ask all the woman at the beach why they are wearing the bikini that they are, they will not say because it is to hot. Most are proud of their body and want to show it off and be admired in a silly attempt to boost their confidence. It really isn’t a fine line between modest and scandalous, it is usually pretty obvious. Praying in public makes some people uncomfortable too, should we all stop doing that? Wait, many of us already have

 

[MariaTS]

Go to the middle east some time if you want to see hot… they are not walking around in bikini’s because of it. I was there and had to wear pants, boots, long sleeves and about 80 lbs of gear and it was a lot hotter than it ever gets on any beach. Using the heat as an excuse to walk around half naked is silly. I guarentee if you ask all the woman at the beach why they are wearing the bikini that they are, they will not say because it is to hot. Most are proud of their body and want to show it off and be admired in a silly attempt to boost their confidence. It really isn’t a fine line between modest and scandalous, it is usually pretty obvious. Praying in public makes some people uncomfortable too, should we all stop doing that? Wait, many of us already have

The reason why so many people wear so much clothing in the middle east is due to a twisted sense of morals. Forcing women to wear black gowns that cover their entire bodies, including their heads, is simply oppression and abuse. Using a culture as an excuse to walk around fully clothed is silly. Also, what do you define as a bikini? All are not immodest. Further, men can go half naked in the middle east but women cannot, what’s up with that?

 

[MikiBee]

Bikini’s are just a type of bathing suit. Yes, some of them cross the line into being immodest, but as long as everything is fully covered, I see no harm in it. It really is a shame that so many people here (U.S) are so sexually charged they can’t look at a woman without lusting after her. God made our bodies in the image of Himself, we should not be ashamed of them and keep them completely covered for the sake of some who cannot control their thoughts. Like I said before, where does it stop? Should we not eat in public so we don’t tempt those that are prone to gluttony? Or drink in a restaurant so we don’t tempt the alcoholic? It is up to the individual with the problem to avoid such situations. We are all prone to different sins, it is up to us to avoid that near occasion of sin.

Sure, I wouldn’t have a glass of wine at dinner in the company of someone I knew was an alcoholic out of respect and consideration for that person. I wouldn’t want to tempt them. However, at a public beach, it is not up to me to go around to each person asking them if they have problems with lust as to whether I will go swimming or not. Ridiculous.

 

[RachelKH]

i think it is just stupid for so many women to go around saying ‘i’ll wear as little as i want, flaunt my body as much as i please, wear whatever styles i want – push-up bras, mini-skirts, low-cut tops, bra strap showing tops, etc – and if i catch your eye and cause you to look and get caught in sexual thoughts and urges, well fella you have the problem and need to control yourself better.’ that is so naive and imposing and wrong. no, we don’t need to wear burkas, but look around – you know how the styles are designed to show off women’s bodies just to get that attention and cause that reaction in the males. men need to learn to respect and think of women as more than just sexual playthings – but, good grief, give them a fighting chance! pants that fit close to the skin don’t leave anything to the imagination – men see you butt and have to look elsewhere. tops that fit tight to your body leave nothing to the imagination – men have to look elsewhere or ‘see’ your body. have some respect for the male tendency to be attracted to bodies in a sexual way and help them not just see your body! i have a husband that sees only bodies when he looks around (much to the ruin of our relationship) because women dress to incite lust. and those of us who dress modestly but attractively are diminished in the eyes of these men because they think of women as only sexual and then see us and don’t get that buzz so they just dismiss us as worthless. and my husband sees no reason to try to stop lusting because it would an impossible mountain to climb, both because he would have to be blind not to see women dressed to incite lust and also because he sees no way to relate to women but as sex objects because that is how his life experiences has formed his view of women.
unfortunately, women often don’t see how men think of women, how lustfully they view us, and need to know so they can make better choices in dressing. i wish i had understood back when i wore a bikini and mini-skirts that i was getting attention that diminished me instead of catching a guy’s eye and leading him to get to know all of me. we women need to attract, but not incite lust. it can be so hard, but it is do-able. but give the OP a break – his gf needs to not think dressing provocatively is ok, and he might be the one to help her see it.

 

[MikiBee]

his gf needs to not think dressing provocatively is ok, and he might be the one to help her see it.

So, what should she wear to the beach then? Baggy pants and an oversized, high necked t-shirt? ALL bathing suits for women are form fitting, even if they aren’t bikinis. They all reveal legs, they all cling to the curves. Should she not go to the beach?

 

[RachelKH]

no – but there are many suits that are made to cover and conceal rather than to draw attention to the private or sexual parts. you know the suits that are appropriate for family excursions to the public beach and you know the suits that are good only for a couple in a private hot tub concealed from the world. a swim suit is not appropriate for wearing to the store or library, but some are not appropriate for other than a private pool with only your spouse! we must dress appropriately for where we are, but still show respect for ourselves and our private parts by covering them properly and not causing others’ eyes to be drawn to those parts. there are suits that are very nice looking and attractive, with ruffles or other decoration that make the suit ‘pretty’ not ‘sleazy’ and no one can find fault with them, except those from other cultures that say all women must be covered head to toe. here in America we can show a lot of skin and still be comfortably modest, if we try.

 

[Ponyguy]

I’m a man, so my viewpoint is different from many others here…

A woman uses her physical “assets,” whatever they may be, to attract a man to begin with. Men are biologically programmed to follow their hormonal responses, but of course those responses ought to be harnessed by human reasoning.

Perhaps Rachel could help her situation if she DID “perk up” her wardrobe a bit to bring her husband’s eyes back home. Perhaps she ought to drag him with her to help select clothes that both of them would like. Men can be terribly frustrated when they simply stroll through a shopping mall, or down the street in town, or anywhere else where the female landscape is ripe, but his wife dresses like a 1950’s nun. There are extremes both ways… a woman ought not look like a harlot, but wearing the western equivalent of a burka is equally ridiculous.

Out own daughter swims competitively, in the Special Olympics; (her recent Gold medal at the regional competition got her an invitation to compete at the State’s summer competition next month!) she tells us that the physical freedom to move her body granted by a two-piece swim suit makes it a better suit than a one-piece tank suit. Of course, there are limits to such a 2-piece suit… a string bikini is “showy” but not a good choice…

 

[Ignatius]

Girls at my university hardly wear clothes any more

Lust is gravely immoral, whatever incites lust is also gravely immoral. Don’t think you’re going to convince a bunch of college age people of that though. They have been brought up to think that there is nothing wrong with lust or following it to the logical conclusion.

 

[RachelKH]

i do not dress like a nun!!! i have a great body and dress attractively, but see no sense in showing cleavage or upper thighs to men that ought not to be thinking about my body in ways that showing those parts would cause! my husband has much wrong with him, and at this time we are separated because he cannot control his eyes when our beautiful teen daughters are near him – his eyes go to their breasts and bottoms out of habit of getting his sexual buzz from all women even his own children. his is a sick perversion of taking the beauty of the human body and separating it from the rest of the person. he is not normal, but his attitude is partly caused by the preoccupation of our culture with sex and dressing sexually. i have 6 children, but am constantly told i don’t look old enough to have children in college and to have so many – so, don’t think my husband had to go looking for ‘greener pastures’ due to my out-of-shape overweight body – he didn’t. and don’t think i don’t like sex either – i’m usually quite ready and willing! i just have enough self respect to not dress so that i am nothing but body – i have a good mind, lots of interests, a loving heart, and a deep love of God. if i dress like a slut, that’s all i am to men. but if i dress modestly, then i am all of me, except to those who only want a sexy body with no mind or heart attached to it. and those people are not worth my attention, because i certainly don’t want theirs.

 

[CatholicWifeMom]

I agree with RachelKH

Isn’t our jobs as Christians on earth to help ourselves and our fellow brothers get to Heaven? To save our soul and the souls of others? How are the women who do not cover up very much helping anyone? Even if their intentions are not to do anything else but be comfortable and swim? We are called to serve Our Lord everyday and in everyway…We can be humble servants by the simple task of dressing modestly.

In my opinion I would much rather cover up, even at the beach or pool, then to encourage another to sin… That is our responsibility and it would be ON US if we didn’t. I actually haven’t always seen it like this… I too have conformed to society many times in the past. Thank you Lord for your constant forgiveness.

I personally like to use the Examination of Conscience at fatima.org fatima.org/essentials/requests/examconc.asp Asking myself under the
6th/9th commandment:

“Have I been an occasion of sin for others by wearing tight or otherwise revealing and immodest clothing?”

“Have I done anything to provoke or occasion impure thoughts or desires in others deliberately or through carelessness?”

I know its hard… first hand… because society has MUCH different views… But we all need to really keep Heaven in mind!
We can take the time to humbly ask ourselves if our dress “would” be harmful to another’s soul in any way shape or form…or we can carelessly ask “should” it be harmful…
Well if we lived in a perfect world with no temptations then of course it shouldn’t be! If it were perfect then all men and woman would control their lustfulness and ignore all the skin showing at a beach/pool/lake. But unfortunately, we are weak! Some of us sin right??
Then we can act compassionately instead of entitled and help our brothers/sisters who are weak, by dressing more modestly.

Tee shirts, longer shorts, cover-ups… I guess we can all come up with ideas to show less skin but still be comfortable. I’m not advocating for everything covered but the eyes either! lol I’m talking about covering up excess skin, personal areas and parts of the body that are tempting to others. Remember that we are serving Our Lord by this…Heaven will be our reward, not the prideful praise from our friends.

I understand where the OP is coming from with his question and concern. My advice is that you remember Jesus and His love, patience and persistence. Use it as your guide. Talk with your g/f lovingly and patiently. It is very easy to be defensive about this topic. She may not want to accept any of your thoughts at this time… but she may eventually if you to not push too hard…loving persistence! Maybe show her some alternate ideas for modesty…cover-ups, tee shirts etc… could be a start. Be open to her thoughts and validate her feelings although you may not agree. Be honest with yourself too…if you are the one being tempted then avoid those situations at all costs.
Remember that we can help to guide others but we can only change ourselves…not them.

I will pray for you both that you may listen to each other well and she may see the love you have for her soul and the souls of others.

God Bless

 

[BobObob]

i have a great body and dress attractively, but see no sense in showing cleavage or upper thighs to men that ought not to be thinking about my body in ways that showing those parts would cause!

I’m sure I already at least mentioned this on this thread (or perhaps it was the public nudity thread), but what parts of the body are sexualized depends on the culture. Women in various parts of Africa walk around topless, and the men their who grew up seeing women topless aren’t turned on by it.

I do think that if nudity (or partial nudity) was less taboo, we would actually have less problems with lust and pornography in our country. One priest, who is from Europe, who my brother knew at Ave Maria, thought that Americans treated mere nudity (or partial nudity) as too taboo and thus over-sexualize a picture of the human body. He thought that this lead Americans to have more problems with pornography than the rest of the world. As of recently, I’d say I agree with him.

Some psychologists hold that sexual responses are learned, meaning the the association between a certain thing (for example, breasts) and sex is an association often influenced by culture.