How do I know if I'm born again?

[misslollipops]

Please be aware that time does not permit me to answer each of the preceding 50 or so posts.
However I am not evading any questions.
If I fail to satisfy your query please ask it again.
Or refer to post number

 

[djrakowski]

Repentance before circumcision is not a requirement under that covenant.

Understood… however, scripture says that the New Covenant is better than the Old. Why, then, is the New Covenant more restrictive in how one becomes a part of it?

 

[djrakowski]

Notice how it doesn’t say repent **then **be baptized. It says repent AND be baptized. There isn’t a “then” in Acts 2:38. You changed the word from “and” to “then”.

I’ve often seen the same imposition of already-held theology on Mark 16:16, which says simply that the person who is believes and is baptized will be saved, not that such a person must be believed and then be baptized*.* It’s simply not there.

 

[deanarrca]

Notice in your very own quote that you sent me it says you must REPENT then be baptized.

A person must repent before being baptized. I have been saying this since the beginning.
An infant cannot repent because they cannot understand sin. So they cannot be baptized.
It is clear that you are not grasping this concept.
So I will keep repeating it.
Maybe through repetition it will sink in.
Repentence comes first.

You could make your argument if this were the only verse in the bible about baptism. However it is not. We have shown you through many scriptures that Baptism is what is known as the new birth or being Born Again. We have also shown through scripture how baptism is to the new covenant what circumcision was to the old. We have shown through scripture how it applies to infants in this way.

You can only make your argument if you ignore all the other verses in the bible that talk about baptism. And do to redundancy, I do not wish to repost them all.

Also everyone has a Biblical authority - no one I have ever met Protestant or Catholic reads just the Bible. They Learn from their Church, they learn form their Pastor. Most Pastors have gone to a theological school. That school would hold to a certain interprertation. I will bet in your home library you have Bible commentary books that help you with understanding the Bible. If you don’t, I am sure your Pastor does. For Example, I can pretty much tell from your posts, like most evangelicals, your theological interpretations come through theologians like Calvin, have you heard of Moody or the Moody Bible institute, Dallas theological Seminary, Scoffield (who was not a biblical scholar by the way) The Scoffield Study Bible etc. etc.

The Bible is the inerrant word of God, but unless you can read ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek and know a lot of the culture and history when the different parts of the Bible were written, you are relying on translation that can be fallible, interpretations that can be fallible. So in the end it does come down to Authority.

 We Catholics chose to trust what was handed down by the Apostles. We will go to what the Early Church had to say and how they interprreted scripure. Those who got it from the horses mouth ie: directly from Jesus, the Apostles, those taught by the Apostles. Not Scoffield or Moody. it can be proven that your concept of being born again was unknown to early Christians for almost 1500 years. Although our interpretation "could" be fallible we very much believe it is not because we believe God had a plan for his Church from the beginning and can protect it from doctrinal error. The Gates of hell shall not prevail against it.  The doctrines of the Catholic Church can be traced all the way back to the beginning. A document called the Didache (written around I think 90 ad, Correct me if I'm wrong guys) really opened my eyes. The Catholic Church is supported by history. If I abandon her who will I trust, myself to interpret scripture, my pastor, my denomination, Scoffield, Moody?

The Bible gives me the answer
2Tim 3:14
14You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them,

 

[misslollipops]

Notice how it doesn’t say repent then be baptized. It says repent AND be baptized. There isn’t a “then” in Acts 2:38. You changed the word from “and” to “then”.

Ok, I wasn’t quoting verbatim.
You can take ‘then’ out of my post.
But your position is Get Baptized then at some future date repent of your sins. It that accurate?

Christianity is not a birthrite like Judaism.
You must make a choice to be a Christian.
A parent cannot do that for you.
And you cannot make that choice as an infant

 

[misslollipops]

So basically you “stand behind” your own contradictory statements? How is that possible?

They are opinions and they are not contradictory. You don’t have to accept them.
The only fact is ‘all have sinned’ Rom3:23

The bible is silent on where babies go, so I offered my opinion.
Do you see the difference?

 

[misslollipops]

2Tim 3:14

I tend to lean on2tim3:16-17

 

[djrakowski]

I tend to lean on2tim3:16-17

Catholics love that passage, too, but realize that it says not that scripture is the *only *word of God, or that it is the *ultimate *word of God. We believe the entirety of the Bible, including those passages that refer positively to the obligation of Christians to follow the apostolic teachings, whether delivered by word of mouth or epistle. We also believe the scriptures when it says that the Church, not the Bible, is the pillar and ground of truth.

We don’t lean on any one passage or set of passages. We lean on the entirety of the Word of God.

 

[davidv]

Ok, I wasn’t quoting verbatim.
You can take ‘then’ out of my post.
But your position is Get Baptized then at some future date repent of your sins. It that accurate?

Only if you are an infant. As previously posted, adults repent and then are baptised.

Christianity is not a birthrite like Judaism.

Agreed

You must make a choice to be a Christian.

Agreed. Each day, every day, every minute we must submit to God’s will.

A parent cannot do that for you.
And you cannot make that choice as an infant

Absolutely incorrect. Not only can we, but we must. In my marriage vows I promised that if I were blessed with children, I would accept them lovingly and raise them Catholic (which includes infant baptism)

 

[Mickey]

A parent cannot do that for you.

Sure they can. The baby is born into a Christian household. They are baptized and receive the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not shun a little baby because they cannot speak or rationalize yet! The parents are responsible to teach their children solid Christian Apostolic teaching as they grow up. When the child is capable of committing actual sin, they repent by participating in the holy Sacrament of Reconciliation. It is a very old Tradition—something like, uh–2000 years old.

God is infinitely merciful. Our Lord does not hold back the Holy Spirit from His most pure infants because they cannot verbalize some sort of sinners pray! They are very close to our Lord and Savior. They converse with the angels!

“Let the little children come to me”

 

[JoeyWarren]

Christianity is not a birthrite like Judaism.
You must make a choice to be a Christian.
A parent cannot do that for you.
And you cannot make that choice as an infant

Judaism is a birthrite?

Oh yes a parent can. Some call it exposure. Some call it brainwashing.

If you have children and make them go to Sunday School and Church, you are conditioning and programming them instead of letting them make the decision to start going to church and sunday school at your preconcieved “Age of Reason”.

Catholics do this as well. We send them to CCD for this conditioning and programming.

Some may be offended at the above comment, but when you cut away the fat and grizzle, what do you have left?

 

[rlg94086]

Ok, I wasn’t quoting verbatim.
You can take ‘then’ out of my post.
But your position is Get Baptized then at some future date repent of your sins. It that accurate?

For babies, yes. For adults, yes. It is possible to be baptized and then repent (first confession) and then be confirmed. However, for most adult converts these all are done at the same time.

For a baby who has been baptized, there is nothing to repent. Therefore, for most of the Catholic Rites, they go through their first confession and receive fist communion when they are old enough to understand. For my 7-year-old, that will be this coming year. Confirmation comes later - typically in Junior High or High School.

You do realize that repentance is not a one time act, right?

 

[Mickey]

Therefore, for most of the Catholic Rites, they go through their first confession and receive fist communion when they are old enough to understand. For my 7-year-old, that will be this coming year. Confirmation comes later - typically in Junior High or High School.

For the Orthodox and most Eastern Catholic rites, the baby is Baptized, Chrismated (Confirmed), and receives Holy Communion all at the same time.

 

[rlg94086]

For the Orthodox and most Eastern Catholic rites, the baby is Baptized, Chrismated (Confirmed), and receives Holy Communion all at the same time.

Thus my “most of the Catholic” comment. I’m very aware the Eastern Rites do it different. There are also some in the Latin Rite receive Holy Communion and Confirmation at a young age. There is not a set rule.

 

[maurin]

They are opinions and they are not contradictory. You don’t have to accept them.
The only fact is ‘all have sinned’ Rom3:23

The bible is silent on where babies go, so I offered my opinion.
Do you see the difference?

So let’s see, “all have sinned”, babies are holy until the age of reason…not contradictory? ok, if you say so.

All have sinned? Jesus hasn’t sinned, has He? Have children who have not yet reached the age of reason sinned?

Your interpretation of Rom 3:23 seems to be lacking.

 

[Mickey]

Thus my “most of the Catholic” comment.

I’m not being argumentative, but I think it is the other way around. Though the Latin Catholic Church is the largest “rite”, the majority of the other “rites” practice all three Sacraments of initiation as an infant.

Peace,
Mickey

 

[rlg94086]

I’m not being argumentative, but I think it is the other way around. Though the Latin Catholic Church is the largest “rite”, the majority of the other “rites” practice all three Sacraments of initiation as an infant.

Peace,
Mickey

Sure. I should have said Catholics and not Catholic Rites. My apologies. No offense was meant.

 

[misslollipops]

So let’s see, “all have sinned”, babies are holy until the age of reason…not contradictory? ok, if you say so.

All have sinned? Jesus hasn’t sinned, has He? Have children who have not yet reached the age of reason sinned?

Your interpretation of Rom 3:23 seems to be lacking.

Holy means set apart not sinless.

 

[Mickey]

Sure. I should have said Catholics and not Catholic Rites. My apologies. No offense was meant.

 

[davidv]

Holy means set apart not sinless.

This may one source of problems in our discussion. For most Catholics, “Holy” means “like God”. Therefore to be holy one is sinless.