How do I know if I'm born again?

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So what is to be the fate of those babies if they should die before they are able to be baptized?
She said that she doesn’t know. Which is understandable, since the man-made theology of “faith alone” leaves a huge logical gap regarding people who are incapable of faith (babies, toddlers, the mentally challenged, the senile).

Luckily, or should I say Providentially, God didn’t forget about them when He drew His plan for our salvation. He made provision for everybody. Praise God! 🙂
 
Read romans 3:9 through 8:17 for an explanation of being born of the spirit
I disagree with you interperation of these verses of Scripture. Where do we go from here?

If I were a Protestant i guess we would just both run off and form our own 'church" and each would teach diametrically opposed views. How would we determine who was right?

Therein lies the whole problem with you faith. When asked to validate your beliefs YOU say “go read so and so in Scripture” It doesnt matter if the verses have anything remotely to do with the subject at hand becuase YOU say they do and YOU say they support your beliefs.

It appears from reading your posts that you really have only one core belief-that Catholics are wrong. And that belief is not based on scripture so much on the fact YOU were once a nominal Catholic of little or no faith and that was not YOUR fault-it was the Church’s fault. So now you have formed the Church of ME where YOU are the sole arbitor of what Scripture means Accordingly YOU can never be wrong… YOU have went from rejecting the Pope to making YOURSELF the pope.
 
She said that she doesn’t know. Which is understandable, since the man-made theology of “faith alone” leaves a huge logical gap regarding people who are incapable of faith (babies, toddlers, the mentally challenged, the senile).

Luckily, or should I say Providentially, God didn’t forget about them when He drew His plan for our salvation. He made provision for everybody. Praise God! 🙂
Since her faith is totally fccused on herself it doesnt matter what happens to others. Such is the flaw when one relpaces faith with emotion.
 
Read romans 3:9 through 8:17 for an explanation of being born of the spirit
So Romans carries more weight with you than the very words of Christ?

Romans 3 - the words “born of the spirit” do not appear anywhere in that chapter.

Romans 4 - not there either

Romans 5 - nope

Romans 6 - not there

Romans 7 - still nothing…

Romans 8 - ah, here we have what someone who is already walking in the Spirit should be doing, but that means that being born of the Spirit is something that’s already happened to them - according to Jesus, at baptism. 👍

Thanks for giving me an opportunity to search the Scriptures to see if what you say is true. I feel more like a Berean every day. 🙂
 
Have you ever actually made the statement to God:
I turn my whole body, mind, and will over to you father?

Or something similar.
Are the words really the key, Miss?

Or does God look a little deeper than that?

After all, there are many who say, “Lord, Lord”…

But surely you have read the lives of the saints who have said this and much more to the Lord out of love for Him?

We are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses…
 
The catholics I know personally don’t do it.
So, on the basis of your small statistical sample, you feel free to judge ALL Catholics?

That’s what? 100? 200? 500 Catholics that you know personally?

Out of a billion?

And if I claim that there are just as many good little evangelical boys and girls who are rolling in the hay on Saturday night and singing in the choir on Sunday morning since they have “eternal security” and cannot lose their salvation after having said the sinner’s prayer, will you be convinced by my anecdotal evidence?

Are there no sinners in your congregation? Or have you found a home among REAL Christians who KNOW the truth, etc., etc.?
 
I never said no catholics do this.
It is pretty clear to me when a person doesn’t have the Holy Spirit guiding their life, or they are denying the Holy Spirit. The evidence is in their walk. It doesn’t matter what religion they follow.
So, if there are some Catholics who “do this” and seek to follow God with their whole being, why aren’t you among them?
 
Romans chap3 through 8 explains being born of the Spirit
I’ve just reviewed those chapters, and there is a lot there.

Perhaps you can be more precise and tell me exactly which verse in these chapters tells me how to be born again?

Assuming, of course, that you are suggesting that Paul is explaining here what Jesus meant in John 3. Is that your position?
 
YOU blamed the church for your sins not me.
As a matter of fact most if not all of my cohorts were also Catholics. I hung out with a catholic crowd in a catholic organization and no one was leading a Godly life.
Sure there was a FORM of Godliness.
people made their Easter duty, holy days of obligation,
communion breakfasts, etc. But then right back to getting drunk on the weekends, gambling, fornicating, and all those other lusts of the flesh. It wasn’t the church’s fault.
The problem was we didn’t have the Holy Spirit guiding our lives because we were not born again.
So you tend to judge a whole group of people because of a small group you hung out with? Does that seem particularly fair? From what I remember in my years of studying Sociology like people tend to conjugate together. So with that in mind does that mean just because YOU were not a good Catholic, YOU seem to have come to the conclusion in all of your greatness, to know that all Catholics are also not good Catholics.

Or how about this train of thought, if one member of your family decides to go on a killing spree. When he gets caught and is tried for his crimes. The court and all who are victims should also blame his whole family for his crimes. And so the whole family should also be sent to prison or even executed for the their brethren crime. I mean they are all after all part of the same family and therefor they are all the same and they are all serial killers right.:rolleyes:

I have said this to you before and I will say it again. You cannot judge a whole by looking at a fraction.
 
I am saying NO ONE should be baptized before they hear and accept the gospel.Not even babies.
This would be normative for adult converts but not for infants, and the scriptures and Church history bear witness to this.

Old Covenant

Genesis 17:9-14
9 Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. 10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. 13 Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”

Leviticus 12:3
3 On the eighth day the boy is to be circumcised.

These texts show the circumcision of eight-day-old babies as the way of entering into the Old Covenant.

Connection to New Covenant

Col 2:11-12
In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of flesh in the circumcision of Christ; 12and you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Baptism is the new “circumcision of Christ” for all people of the New Covenant.

Do Infants Need Baptism?

Job 14:1-4
1 "Man born of woman is of few days and full of trouble. 2 He springs up like a flower and withers away; like a fleeting shadow, he does not endure. 3 Do you fix your eye on such a one? Will you bring him before you for judgment? 4 Who can bring what is pure from the impure? No one!

Psalm 51:5
5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

We are conceived in the iniquity of sin. This shows the need for baptism from the moment of conception.

Jesus Extols Child-like Faith

Matthew 18:2-5
2 He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus says unless we become like children, we cannot enter into heaven. **So why would children be excluded from baptism? **

(cont.)
 
Jesus Receives Little Children and Infants

Matt 19:13-15
13Then little children were brought to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked those who brought them. 14 Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” 15 When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there.

Mark 10:13-16
13People were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” 16And he took the children in his arms, put his hands on them and blessed them.

**Jesus says to let the children come to Him for the kingdom of God also belongs to them. There is no age limit on entering the kingdom, and no age limit for being eligible for baptism. **

Luke 18:15-17
15People were also bringing babies to Jesus to have him touch them. When the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. 16But Jesus called the children to him and said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 17I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

The Church Begins to Preach Baptism

Acts 2:38-39
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

Peter did not say, “Every one of you adults”; he said, “Every one of you” without qualification and added “the promise (of the Holy Spirit) is for you and your children”. Baptism and the Holy Spirit are frequently connected throughout the Bible (cf. Ez. 36:25-27, Mt. 3:16, Jn. 3:5).

Acts 10:47-48
Then Peter said, 47"Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Peter baptized the entire house of Cornelius which probably included infants and young children. There is not one word in this passage (or any other in scripture) about baptism being limited to adults.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:
 
Are you born again?
If so how do you know?
  1. Sacrament of Baptism
  2. Sacrament of Confirmation
  3. Sacrament of Pennance
  4. Sacrament of Eucharist
Living out our faith daily

I like to look at two apostles that had their own unique conversion experience too, Peter denied Christ three times yet overcame that through only the Grace of God, this allowed him to overcome his fears and be the true leader of the Church. Also Thomas doubted Christ, I think this is key in our christian belief, I was raised in a christian home but if I never doubted Christ then would my faith be real?

My own personal conversion to the Catholic Church well for me it took a little time in hell.

My former Baptist preacher once said in a sermon that if each of us could spend just one nano second in hell then we would completly change our ways, well he was right I spent time in hell prior to my conversion to the Catholic Church.
 
I have said this to you before and I will say it again. You cannot judge a whole by looking at a fraction.
Surely Misslollipops won’t mind if we judge ALL of evangelicalism because of Ted Haggard, Jimmy Swaggart and Jim and Tammy Bakker.

Will she? 😛
 
Originally Posted by misslollipops
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                 [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=2759497#post2759497)
             *Have you ever actually made the statement to God:
I turn my whole body, mind, and will over to you father?

Or something similar.*I say the following prayers every morning and I’m sure millions and millions of Catholics say the exact same prayers every morning too.
I adore Thee O God and I love Thee with all my heart and soul. I thank Thee for having created me, made me a Christian, and for having kept me during this night. I offer Thee the actions of this day. Grant that they me be according to Thy Holy will for Thy greater Honor and Glory. May Thy Grace be always with me and all my beloved ones. Amen.

I renew my baptismal vows, I renounce Satan and all his works and all his pomps. I take Jesus Christ for my Model and my Guide and I promise to be faithful to Him until the end of my life. Amen.
Code:
                      O My God, I thank Thee for all Thy infinite Goodness in sending down upon my soul Thy Holy Ghost with His Gifts and Graces.  O, may He take full possession of me forever.  May His heavenly Wisdom reign in my heart; His Understanding enlighten my darkness; His Counsel guide me; His Fortitude strengthen me; His Knowledge instruct me; His Piety make me fervent; His Divine Fear keep me from all evil.  Give me grace to be Thy faithful soldier so that by fighting the good fight of faith, I may be brought to the crown of eternal life by the merits of Thy Son and our Savior Jesus Christ.  **Amen****.
**
I have said something like the following prayers and I’m sure millions upon millions of Catholics have said the same prayer.
Code:
 O Sacred Heart of Jesus, to Thee I consecrate and offer up my     person and my life, my actions, trials, and sufferings, that my entire being may     henceforth only be employed in loving, honoring and glorifying Thee. This is my     irrevocable will, to belong entirely to Thee, and to do all for Thy love, renouncing with     my whole heart all that can displease Thee.
 I take Thee, O Sacred Heart, for the sole object of my     love, the protection of my life, the pledge of my salvation, the remedy of my frailty and     inconstancy, the reparation for all the defects of my life, and my secure refuge at the     hour of my death. Be Thou, O Most Merciful Heart, my justification before God Thy Father,     and screen me from His anger which I have so justly merited. I fear all from my own     weakness and malice, but placing my entire confidence in Thee, O Heart of Love, I hope all     from Thine infinite Goodness. Annihilate in me all that can displease or resist Thee.     Imprint Thy pure love so deeply in my heart that I may never forget Thee or be separated     from Thee.
I beseech Thee, through Thine infinite Goodness, grant that my name be engraved upon Thy     Heart, for in this I place all my happiness and all my glory, to live and to die as one of     Thy devoted servants.
 Amen.
So does that mean that millions upon millions of Catholics are “guaranteed” salvation and indeed are “born again” and never ever have fleshy thoughts ever again simply by uttering these words?

Do these “statements” meet your criteria misslollipops?
 
Assuming, of course, that you are suggesting that Paul is explaining here what Jesus meant in John 3. Is that your position?
Paul is explaining Jn3:3

If anyone needs further explanation open a new thread.

I will go chapter by chapter if that is what you need
 
I say the following prayers every morning and I’m sure millions and millions of Catholics say the exact same prayers every morning too.
I adore Thee O God and I love Thee with all my heart and soul. I thank Thee for having created me, made me a Christian, and for having kept me during this night. I offer Thee the actions of this day. Grant that they me be according to Thy Holy will for Thy greater Honor and Glory. May Thy Grace be always with me and all my beloved ones. Amen.

I renew my baptismal vows, I renounce Satan and all his works and all his pomps. I take Jesus Christ for my Model and my Guide and I promise to be faithful to Him until the end of my life. Amen.
Code:
                      O My God, I thank Thee for all Thy infinite Goodness in sending down upon my soul Thy Holy Ghost with His Gifts and Graces.  O, may He take full possession of me forever.  May His heavenly Wisdom reign in my heart; His Understanding enlighten my darkness; His Counsel guide me; His Fortitude strengthen me; His Knowledge instruct me; His Piety make me fervent; His Divine Fear keep me from all evil.  Give me grace to be Thy faithful soldier so that by fighting the good fight of faith, I may be brought to the crown of eternal life by the merits of Thy Son and our Savior Jesus Christ.  **Amen****.
**
I have said something like the following prayers and I’m sure millions upon millions of Catholics have said the same prayer. So does that mean that millions upon millions of Catholics are “guaranteed” salvation and indeed are “born again” and never ever have fleshy thoughts ever again simply by uttering these words?

Do these “statements” meet your criteria misslollipops?
These are perfect.
 
Matt 19:13-15 “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
Hope this helps. :tiphat:

The whole point is: how can an infant repent?
 
The whole point is: how can an infant repent?
Yes. Exactly. Since an infant is incapable of repentance, then either (1) infants cannot be saved; or (2) there is a method of being born again which does not require repentance for those incapable of it — a method like baptism.
 
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