How do I know if I'm born again?

[Teflon93]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lak611 forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
Actually, the two thieves died after Jesus. The soldiers had to break their legs, but not Jesus’ legs because He had already died. From the NASB:

Hmm…just a thought. Was the “good thief” “baptized” by the water that flowed from Jesus’ side?

Chuck

I don’t think that was possible given the distance between crosses in a purely physical sense.

 

[clmowry]

There is no hint that the Twelve – or the 120 disciples, for that matter – were baptized by the Sacrament.

There are plenty of hints even if there are not explicit statements.

Let’s see:

Christ said it was fitting that He be baptized even though He didn’t need it and He was baptized.

He told his disciples to go forth and baptize.

We know explicitly that Paul was baptized.

And the conclusion is that none of the other disciples were baptized?

Chuck

 

[clmowry]

I’ve only read the original post, but I find it shocking that a topic that could be answered as simply as, “If you were properly Baptised, then you’ve been born again,” would have over 900 replies.

We need a new book. “Non-Catholics are from Venus, Catholics are from Mars” cause we just don’t speak the same language.

Chuck

 

[Teflon93]

We need a new book. “Non-Catholics are from Venus, Catholics are from Mars” cause we just don’t speak the same language.

Chuck

Maybe if we wait long enough they’ll develop criteria for Christianity which perfectly exclude Catholics by definition. That’s like the anti-Catholic Holy Grail. They just haven’t come up with a filter which captures most Protestants but no Catholics yet.

 

[FCEGM]

There are plenty of hints even if there are not explicit statements.

Let’s see:

Christ said it was fitting that He be baptized even though He didn’t need it and He was baptized.

Yes, it was fitting that Christ was baptized (which, of course, was not a Christian baptism), and this explains the why of it well:

“In presenting Himself to receive the baptism of John, Jesus submits to the will of His Father (Mt. 3:14f) and humbly placed Himself among sinners. He is the Lamb of God who thus takes upon Himself the sins of the world (Jn. 1:29, 36). The baptism of Jesus in the Jordan announces and prepares for His baptism ‘in death’ (Ll/ 12:50; Mk. 10:38), which indeed frames His public life between two baptisms. This is what John the Evangelist means when he reports that water and blood flowed from the pierced side of Jesus (Jn. 19:34f) and when he says that the Sprit, the water and the blood are intimately connected (1 Jn. 5:6-8),” Xavier Leon-Dufour, Dictionary of Biblical Theology.

What strikes me in the above is the imagery of Our Lord, the innocent Lamb of God, entering the water in which sinners have entered as a sign of repentance and comes out of the water bearing the weight of those sins - and also cleansing the water, the material that will be used to bring about sinners’ rebirth in Christian baptism (the Church Fathers speak of this).

All this, of course, is not something that the Apostles could accomplish through their own baptisms (for those who were baptized by John, which, again, was not a Christian baptism).

He told his disciples to go forth and baptize.

Yes, He did, because they were commissioned to bring others to the rebirth into His Kingdom through the baptism that is the Christian’s immersion in Christ’s death, burial and resurrection, as St. Paul makes clear. Since Pentecost, of course, everybody is normally to be baptized by the sacrament, even St. Paul.

We know explicitly that Paul was baptized.

Yes, he was. He required baptism because - unlike the Apostles and the close disciples - he wasn’t present as were the Apostles to all that Baptism signifies. The Twelve were baptized in the experience of the death and resurrection of Our Lord. Thomas was specifically reconciled to Christ the week after by faith in the experience of meeting the Risen Lord. At Pentecost the completion of this occurred for the Twelve gathered in prayer. Garrigou-Lagrange’s classic book, The Three Ways of the Spiritual Life, summarizes a whole tradition of understanding the development of the Twelve’s spirituality from beginners (during the earthly life), the purification of the senses (in the event of the Passion and Death), the infusion of contemplative prayer (in the 40 days of the Resurrection), the purification of the spirit (in the awaiting of the Counselor in the presence of the Blessed Mother drawing down the Holy Spirit), and Pentecost Day (the grace of union or the mystical life) that propels them to preach and incorporate new members from among the Jews through baptism and confirmation.

And the conclusion is that none of the other disciples were baptized?

Yes, it is.

 

[mgrfin]

Maybe if we wait long enough they’ll develop criteria for Christianity which perfectly exclude Catholics by definition. That’s like the anti-Catholic Holy Grail. They just haven’t come up with a filter which captures most Protestants but no Catholics yet.

You are right. Catholicism is the ‘gold standard’. Non-Catholics define themselves in proportion to how much of what we teach and believe.

peace

Today is the Feast of Guardian Angels:

(Prayer from my youth, from memory):

Angel of God, my Guardian dear
To whom His love commits me here
Ever this day, be at my side,
To light and guard, to rule and guide. Amen

 

[byoby]

Catholics believe every word of that verse!

That is Great!

Have you seen anything in actual authoritative Catholic teaching that leads you to think that we believe otherwise?

No, but I am concerned that some have added to this gospel by beleiving that we must also do certain things to gain salvation. I have this concern for people in general and am not entirely clear on what the Catholic Church teaches. It is a human problem that I beleive is insulting to God by proclaiming that his sacrifice is not sufficent for all of our sins therefore diminishing his work on the cross. I beleive that out of faith and because we beleive in God we will do what he commands out of a response to his love. To me this is an evidence of our faith “Faith without works is dead”. If this is what the Catholic Church teaches than we are in agreement. We all want to please and follow the commands of our master whomever or whatever that may be, sadly for some it is not Christ. I do not in any way sit in judgement of any persons heart and was just responding to the question. If you beleive the gospel, then praise God! we our brothers & sisters in Christ. It is my understanding that throughout the scriptures men & woman are saved despite thier religous attempts to somehow bring God into debt with them, but are saved because they beleive and out of a response to his love follow him. If my thinking is flawed, correct me! I am not above reproach. I only try to test all things and try to hold onto what is good.

I do sometimes wonder if the Catholic Church sits in judgement of me because I do not place my faith in the Catholic Church but in Christ alone. I have not personally researched this matter but have heard it 2nd hand through radio and other sources. Please correct me if this is not true.

In Christ,

Byoby

 

[nilofc]

Grace comes from faith. Eph2:8

Wrong.

Grace comes first before faith.

You can not obtain faith on your own? It was given to you first.

Just like infants where faith of the parents is passed down to the infant through baptism. And baptism washes away the original sin that was stained the infant.

 

[nilofc]

Judas could not be born again because the Holy spirit was not given till pentacost or when Jesus breather Him on to the other apostles.

Unless you don’t believe in the unity of the Trinity then I guess you’re may believe that the Holy Spirit is not in the Son, and the Father is not in the Son also.

Jesus was with them Himself. Think about it.

 

[HailMary]

I do sometimes wonder if the Catholic Church sits in judgment of me because I do not place my faith in the Catholic Church but in Christ alone.

Ill-posed statement. The Church IS the SPOUSE of CHRIST and they are ONE.

Ephesians 5:31-32
For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. This is a great mystery,** but I speak in reference to Christ and the church**.

Are you sure you place your faith in Christ ALONE? What about God the Father or the Holy Spirit?

Are you sure its ALONE?

 

[nilofc]

Hi,

My hubby was baptized and raised catholic. Let me tell you he is not a born again christian by any stretch of the imagination. He has only been to church a handful of times since he was 18 and he is 44 now. He shows very little fruit that Jesus speaks of.
He has very little knowledge of Christ and what He did for us on the cross. Thankfully he has me as his wife I do explain the gospel to him when the HS nudges me. Mostly I live by example:thumbsup:
Dont get me wrong I love my hubby and he is a good husband and father but he is not saved

Im sorry if Im coming across harsh but Im very passionate about the fact that being catholic is not the magic bullet for getting into heaven.
IT IS CHRIST and as soon as my hubby accepts that he will be joing me in heaven AMEN!!
His baptism did not save him at all. I can say that if my hubby were to die today(God forbid) he would not be going to heaven. That makes me very sad but it is true and my prayer for him and my son is that God not take them until He has saved them.

Myself and my daughter have accepted the gospel(Thanks be to God )

AMEN!!!

Sounds like that those who have not accepted CHRIST as their personal Lord and Savior is doomed to hell.

I don’t know with you, but this a sin to charity.

based on your logic…poor infants who died before the age of reason where they could have accepted from their hearts Jesus as their personal Lord and saviour. Well… that goes also for those people who have died even before the coming of the Messiah. And poor people who didn’t had the chance to know Jesus at all.

Wow…By your brand of theology, you are sending a lot to hell. By the way, salvation is God’s prerogative. Not yours.

One more thing, can you show me in the bible where it says the you have to accept Jesus as your personal Lord and savior? I just wanna see it.

I guess you can’t and you will not .Your formula is flawed. Why? because that formula will be condemning a lot of souls who did not have the chance to know Jesus at all. And I don’t think God thinks the way you do.

 

[nilofc]

Faith comes by hearing Rom10:17
Cannot happen as an infant.

That’s unfair. If faith can only come from what is heard then why did original sin passed unto us as infants?

You see…you are missing what Paul was saying…“Thus faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the word of Christ.”

He didn’t say that faith can ONLY be passed on by hearing it.
It can also be passed by proxy, just what our baptismal sponsors and parents did for us and this was completed when we came to the age of reason when we were able to profess and accept this faith as our own in Confirmation.

 

[nilofc]

I generally don’t look at links.
If you have something to say or a question in your post I will address it. But I don’t click on links.

That’s why you’re missing out. And poor catholics, who keeps on repeating themselves and pointing out the truth for your sake.

But I guess that’s part of the mission.

 

[nilofc]

It is a good example. Thanks
Jesus was offered to God as an infant lk2:22-24
But when did the Holy Spirit descend on Him?
Lk3:21-22 as an adult

So are you saying that there was a time in Jesus’s life that the Holy Spirit is not in Him?

I thought you believed in the oneness of the Trinity?

wow…this is dangerous theology. More like a heresy.

 

[mgrfin]

That’s unfair. If faith can only come from what is heard then why did original sin passed unto us as infants?

You see…you are missing what Paul was saying…“Thus faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the word of Christ.”

He didn’t say that faith can ONLY be passed on by hearing it.
It can also be passed by proxy, just what our baptismal sponsors and parents did for us and this was completed when we came to the age of reason when we were able to profess and accept this faith as our own in Confirmation.

Gee, that “ONLY” word. What other heretic did that word cause to fall into the abyss.

peace

 

[guanophore]

All this, of course, is not something that the Apostles could accomplish through their own baptisms (for those who were baptized by John, which, again, was not a Christian baptism).

Most of them were baptized by John. Why would you think that Jesus would have His Apostles Baptizing if they had not been baptized first?

 

[guanophore]

No, but I am concerned that some have added to this gospel by beleiving that we must also do certain things to gain salvation. I have this concern for people in general and am not entirely clear on what the Catholic Church teaches. It is a human problem that I beleive is insulting to God by proclaiming that his sacrifice is not sufficent for all of our sins therefore diminishing his work on the cross. I beleive that out of faith and because we beleive in God we will do what he commands out of a response to his love. To me this is an evidence of our faith “Faith without works is dead”. If this is what the Catholic Church teaches than we are in agreement. We all want to please and follow the commands of our master whomever or whatever that may be, sadly for some it is not Christ. I do not in any way sit in judgement of any persons heart and was just responding to the question. If you beleive the gospel, then praise God! we our brothers & sisters in Christ. It is my understanding that throughout the scriptures men & woman are saved despite thier religous attempts to somehow bring God into debt with them, but are saved because they beleive and out of a response to his love follow him. If my thinking is flawed, correct me! I am not above reproach. I only try to test all things and try to hold onto what is good.

I do sometimes wonder if the Catholic Church sits in judgement of me because I do not place my faith in the Catholic Church but in Christ alone. I have not personally researched this matter but have heard it 2nd hand through radio and other sources. Please correct me if this is not true.

In Christ,

Byoby

This is Catholic Teaching. We are saved by grace, through faith, and not of works, lest any should boast. Yet, saving faith expresses itself in obedience and performance of the good works which God has created for us before the beginning of time, that we should walk in them. The Catholic Church judges no one, but leaves the salvation of every soul to God.

However, there is no separation between Christ and His Church, so rejecting the Catholic Church is rejecting Christ, to greater or lesser extent.

 

[byoby]

Ill-posed statement. The Church IS the SPOUSE of CHRIST and they are ONE.

Thank you for affirming my belief that the Church and Christ are one, we have some common ground. However, I strongly disagree with your interpretation of what the church is. Jesus and the apostles through the oral traditions of the earliest Christian (Follower of the entire Godhead under the teachings of Christ) Church written down for us in the Bible spells out God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’s redemptive plan for mankind. The church here on earth had flaws from the beginning because it is made up of sinfull men who have been justified and saved through Christ. Read your Bible if you do not believe me. The church is made up of those who respond to the Gospel (Good News!) in spite of any man made denomination Catholic, Protestant, Lutheran, Eastern Catholic, or any other ism. The word “Church” when translated from its original language means I think “The called out ones”. I cannot remember if this was Greek, Hebrew, or whatever. I challenge you to find this out for yourself as I will do also. If I am proven wrong than so be it, that is why I am here. I personally believe that people of many denominations that present the Gospel of the Bible and respond to it will be saved. Do you beleive that Christ does not save outside of the Catholic Church? Can I presume that by the way that you define the word “Church” you believe that I am condemned? Be carefull, these are loaded questions.

Ephesians 5:31-32
For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. This is a great mystery,** but I speak in reference to Christ and the church**.

Are you sure you place your faith in Christ ALONE? What about God the Father or the Holy Spirit?

Are you sure its ALONE?

I assumed I was talking with people mature in their faith, therefore I did not feel compelled to make this qualification of one of the most fundamental truths of the Christian faith. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are indeed One God. I am starting to realize that Catholic Christians, although using the same words as Non-Catholic Christians sometimes have different meanings for the same word.

This may be the source of some of our misunderstandings.

 

[byoby]

Sorry I’m kinda new at this. My response in the above is both inside and outside of the Quote Section.

 

[guanophore]

Grace comes from faith. Eph2:8

Sorry I am so late in finding this. I just now read it. Grace comes THROUGH faith. Faith comes by hearing the word. Probably this is further in the thread, so I apologize for repeating if I do.

Faith is a quality of the human person built into us by God. His grace stretches forth to reach us, and this happens through the faculty of faith. It is the ability of persons, by the creation of God, to respond to His call.

One major difference between Catholicism and Reformed Theology is that Catholics believe humans are created in the image and likeness of God. That God looked upon His creation and called it “good”. This is the opposite of “total depravity” doctrine where it is taught that humans have nothing good in
them. Catholicism teaches that original sin has wounded us, but that we are still able to reflect the Glory He intended to transmit in creating us.

Another major difference is that Catholics believe that part of being made in the image and likeness of God means that we have freedom of choice. That means that we can choose whether we want to participate in God’s plan for our lives, or not. This flies in the face of the predestination theology of the reformers.