How do I lovingly let people know that cohabitating is wrong?

[crenfro]

Hello.

I think it’s getting closer to the moment when I will buy a necklace of a little silver or pewter foot on a chain so it can be handy to put in my mouth.

Lately I’ve started telling people who are cohabiting to “get married” or “you guys should get married.” Then I’m told by a close relative that that’s not my business and to quit, or something else that I fear, that somebody’s eventually going to get angry at me - perhaps even physically.

Just told the dad and brother of a fellow that he should marry his live-in girlfriend - I tried to be gracious about it.

And when I think about it, it sort of is my business because all sin brings down society a notch or so.

But then I think I should just concentrate on all my failings and sins and not say anything when I see something amiss. And then I think, well, if I see something and it’s wrong and I’ve done nothing to stop it, I’m cooperating in that sin.

I just don’t know any more sometimes. Feel like I should completely remove myself from the company of people (my husband excluded → he likes me around ) so I won’t bother anybody any more.

So, back to Confession this Saturday as one of the usual suspects I go.

How does a person ever get to the point of when they’re perfect as their Heavenly Father is perfect and get to the point of when they’re always doing things ONLY out of the motive of love for others and God?

Any constructive and kindly, well-meant comments appreciated. Thanks for listening and please pray for me.

 

[CatholicRaven]

Just told the dad and brother of a fellow that he should marry his live-in girlfriend - I tried to be gracious about it.

If you had been speaking to the fellow himself about his situation, and this subject had come up, it may be different. But to discuss the fellow’s personal affairs and/or sins *with others *is… well, gossip.

Speaking about an action in general as being sinful or wrong is fine. Gently reprimanding a sinner directly or correcting an incorrect statement or assumption about sin is fine. Even saying, in a loving way that “you guys should get married” can be fine. But when they already know how you feel, and especially when pushing the issue would likely only make them defensive and/or push them further away from God, it’s probably best to hold your tongue.

Moments will come up when you will know that you should or should not say something, even though it might be tempting to do the opposite; and moments will come up when you’re not sure whether you should say something or not. That happens to all of us! Pray for help from the Holy Spirit for discernment, and be sure to apologize when you do say something you shouldn’t.

I will for you, too.

 

[MaryT777]

If you had been speaking to the fellow himself about his situation, and this subject had come up, it may be different. But to discuss the fellow’s personal affairs and/or sins *with others *is… well, gossip.

Speaking about an action in general as being sinful or wrong is fine. Gently reprimanding a sinner directly or correcting an incorrect statement or assumption about sin is fine. Even saying, in a loving way that “you guys should get married” can be fine. But when they already know how you feel, and especially when pushing the issue would likely only make them defensive and/or push them further away from God, it’s probably best to hold your tongue.

Moments will come up when you will know that you should or should not say something, even though it might be tempting to do the opposite; and moments will come up when you’re not sure whether you should say something or not. That happens to all of us! Pray for help from the Holy Spirit for discernment, and be sure to apologize when you do say something you shouldn’t.

I will for you, too.

Well said.
I concur

 

[Joe_5859]

Here are some guidelines from the Old Catholic Encyclopedia for when to offer fraternal correction:

• the delinquency to be corrected or prevented is a grievous one;
• there is no good reason to believe that the sinner will adequately provide for himself;
• there is a well-founded expectation that the admonition will be heeded;
• there is no one else just as well fitted for this work of Christian charity and likely to undertake it;
• there is no special trouble or disadvantage accruing to the reformer as a result of his zeal.

It further adds that:

Practically, however, individuals without any official capacity are seldom impeachable as having seriously transgressed the law in this matter because it is but rarely one finds the coalition of circumstances just enumerated.

In other words, if you’re not a religious superior of some type, the chances are slim that you will find yourself in a situation under which all of these criteria are met where you would be obligated under penality of sin to say something. And even then, you would need to take care to go about it the right way.

Not to discourage you from preaching the Gospel to others, but calling them out and telling them they need to get married is (in most cases) stepping over the line. And, as you are experiencing, it’s not leading to success.

Even if you were to say something, I would think it would be better to ask them to stop the sin (cohabitation) rather that presuming to tell them whom to marry.

 

[Allegra]

I feel your pain. It sounds like you were talking to the wrong people anyway. You should discuss this with the person commiting the sin, not his father and brother. One the other hand, I got zapped this past weekend while visiting my husband’s family. Everyone was going on about his cousin’s live-in girlfriend of five years getting pregnant. (As if she did it herself with no help whatsoever.) Apparently, the resounding opinion of the relations is that the sneaky little slut did this on purpose to “trick him” into staying with her.
After hearing a third person state this sentiment, I pointed out that it was my understanding was that he had been “tricking her” for the better part of five years and if he’d paid attention in health class he’d know where babies come from. I got some glares, though fortunately the subject changed quickly and no arguement ensued. It’s hard to know when to say something.

 

[Joe_5859]

I feel your pain. It sounds like you were talking to the wrong people anyway. You should discuss this with the person commiting the sin, not his father and brother. One the other hand, I got zapped this past weekend while visiting my husband’s family. Everyone was going on about his cousin’s live-in girlfriend of five years getting pregnant. (As if she did it herself with no help whatsoever.) Apparently, the resounding opinion of the relations is that the sneaky little slut did this on purpose to “trick him” into staying with her.
After hearing a third person state this sentiment, I pointed out that it was my understanding was that he had been “tricking her” for the better part of five years and if he’d paid attention in health class he’d know where babies come from. I got some glares, though fortunately the subject changed quickly and no arguement ensued. It’s hard to know when to say something.

In that case, I’d say you responded very well considering that others were sitting around gossipping and saying bad things about the girl.

 

[crazydaisy1234]

This is a slightly spurious argument, but I remember being taught at school (Catholic school) that the word for “fornication” in the gospels, especially Mark’s derives from a more specific meaning relating to prostitution. It was a very specific derivative. So while I am not saying the church has got it wrong, I do wonder how well we have interpreted fornication, and whether our understanding is entirely right. Having said that I am sure Biblical scholars, theologians and Popes are more knowledgeable than my RE teacher!

As for being as perfect as our Heavenly Father, ain’t never gonna happen! We just keep on striving

 

[Allegra]

In that case, I’d say you responded very well considering that others were sitting around gossipping and saying bad things about the girl.

I don’t even like the girl, but it was the principle of the thing. Why is it okay for my husband’s cousin to string this girl along for five years and objectify her for his own pleasure but as soon as she turns up pregnant she’s a slut and a sneaky trick trying to trap a man?

 

[stephe1987]

It’s narcissism, plain and simple. People feel like they have a “right” to sex, and who is anyone to “judge” them for using another person? They move in together without getting married, and that’s okay because they are entitled to have sex on demand. Didn’t you know, having sex when and how one wants is a “human right”? A woman getting pregnant infringes on the rights of the man because now he has to actually become a responsible adult. He is forced to view the woman and their baby as people rather than as objects, and that’s not cool because it crimps his style.

Narcissists are very angry individuals who do not like their judgment or motives to be questioned. Their hearts and minds are closed to God. The only thing we can do is pray for them. Even if we are gentle with them, they will not listen and will become even more angry. The anger will lead them even further from God. It’s a lose-lose situation to do anything.

 

[crenfro]

I feel your pain. It sounds like you were talking to the wrong people anyway. You should discuss this with the person commiting the sin, not his father and brother. …

… I got some glares, though fortunately the subject changed quickly and no arguement ensued. It’s hard to know when to say something.

Thank you very much for your comments Allegra, especially the ones above.

 

[fred_conty]

Hello.

I think it’s getting closer to the moment when I will buy a necklace of a little silver or pewter foot on a chain so it can be handy to put in my mouth.

Lately I’ve started telling people who are cohabiting to “get married” or “you guys should get married.” Then I’m told by a close relative that that’s not my business and to quit, or something else that I fear, that somebody’s eventually going to get angry at me - perhaps even physically.

Just told the dad and brother of a fellow that he should marry his live-in girlfriend - I tried to be gracious about it.

And when I think about it, it sort of is my business because all sin brings down society a notch or so.

But then I think I should just concentrate on all my failings and sins and not say anything when I see something amiss. And then I think, well, if I see something and it’s wrong and I’ve done nothing to stop it, I’m cooperating in that sin.

I just don’t know any more sometimes. Feel like I should completely remove myself from the company of people (my husband excluded → he likes me around ) so I won’t bother anybody any more.

So, back to Confession this Saturday as one of the usual suspects I go.

How does a person ever get to the point of when they’re perfect as their Heavenly Father is perfect and get to the point of when they’re always doing things ONLY out of the motive of love for others and God?

Any constructive and kindly, well-meant comments appreciated. Thanks for listening and please pray for me.

I just could be that it is good for them to be upset. At least they won’t ignore the situation any longer. And in time they may start thinking the right way. If nobody says anything, they may just think it is ok forever…and too late.

But you will be out there all alone because today it is thought that any kind of sex anywhere is none of anyone’s buisness, not your’s nor God’s. So prepare for the chill after you say it.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.

 

[JimG]

I don’t even like the girl, but it was the principle of the thing. Why is it okay for my husband’s cousin to string this girl along for five years and objectify her for his own pleasure but as soon as she turns up pregnant she’s a slut and a sneaky trick trying to trap a man?

Well, I thought your comment was okay, given that everyone seemed to be blaming the girl alone for her pregnancy.

The problem is that cohabitation / fornication, which in the past was usually subject to social disapproval, now is looked upon with equanimity. Now, it is not longer socially disapproved. Indeed, it Is often accepted at face value, as if shacking up were just as good as marriage. But it isn’t. However, anyone who says publicly that it isn’t is now the one who is subject to social disapproval.

 

[Allegra]

Well, I thought your comment was okay, given that everyone seemed to be blaming the girl alone for her pregnancy.

The problem is that cohabitation / fornication, which in the past was usually subject to social disapproval, now is looked upon with equanimity. Now, it is not longer socially disapproved. Indeed, it Is often accepted at face value, as if shacking up were just as good as marriage. But it isn’t. However, anyone who says publicly that it isn’t is now the one who is subject to social disapproval.

And yet the natural product of sex is looked upon with disgust and contempt. (Just the woman though, since it is all her fault.) Fortunately in this case, that doesn’t seem to be how my husband’s cousin sees it.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

I wish I had a good answer for the OP. We decided to quit condoning our cohabiting, fornicating relations a while back. We’re the ones in the wrong, of course. We were chewed out for no longer including my cousin’s girlfriend’s name on his Christmas card. When it was pointed out to me that they were getting married, I said that I’d include her name again if that day ever came (still hasn’t). When I declined on the offer to go in on a housewarming gift for another couple, I was told how rude and selfish we were. Someone then mentioned how thrilled my extremely devout grandmother would have been at the news of them shacking up. When I said I didn’t think she approved of cohabitation and premarital sex, I was lambasted for suggesting such a thing. Granted, that wasn’t quite as diplomatic as I’d been in other instances, but if they’re not going to respect our wishes to not support fornication, I felt I owed it to them to point out the error of their assumptions about my grandmother. They didn’t appreciate it, of course, but I don’t appreciate them promoting cohabitation in front of our kids, or even worse, the expectation that our kids should refer to them as Cousin This or Aunt That simply because they’re sleeping with a relative.

 

[Allegra]

They didn’t appreciate it, of course, but I don’t appreciate them promoting cohabitation in front of our kids, or even worse, the expectation that our kids should refer to them as Cousin This or Aunt That simply because they’re sleeping with a relative.

This annoys me so much! It’s one thing if so-and-so is a long-time friend of the family but casual sex does not an aunty make. My sisters teaches her two-year-old to call my brothers’ girlfriends “aunt” (assuming she likes them) and I think it’s very damaging. In five years, we’ll all be calling her “what-was-her-name”. Why confuse a little girl? Oddly enough, when my husband and I were engaged and the wedding date was planned and booked, all he got was “almost-uncle”.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

This annoys me so much! It’s one thing if so-and-so is a long-time friend of the family but casual sex does not an aunty make. My sisters teaches her two-year-old to call my brothers’ girlfriends “aunt” (assuming she likes them) and I think it’s very damaging. In five years, we’ll all be calling her “what-was-her-name”. Why confuse a little girl? Oddly enough, when my husband and I were engaged and the wedding date was planned and booked, all he got was “almost-uncle”.

I think that’s just one of the problems with the casual sex/cohabiting culture. I know mine and my wife’s families don’t share our view on it, but I think if they’d look at some of the effects they might rethink things. My wife’s single-mom cousin, anytime she sleeps with a guy for more than a month, has her kids call him dad. That’s half a dozen or so guys over the last few years. The idea of a father has become virtually meaningless to them. For a while, the one was calling just about any older male he saw on a regular basis “Dad.” It’s really pretty sad. After dealing with that, I’m not going to turn around and tell my kids to refer to my relatives’ sex-buddies as family members.

 

[Allegra]

I think that’s just one of the problems with the casual sex/cohabiting culture. I know mine and my wife’s families don’t share our view on it, but I think if they’d look at some of the effects they might rethink things. My wife’s single-mom cousin, anytime she sleeps with a guy for more than a month, has her kids call him dad. That’s half a dozen or so guys over the last few years. The idea of a father has become virtually meaningless to them. For a while, the one was calling just about any older male he saw on a regular basis “Dad.” It’s really pretty sad. After dealing with that, I’m not going to turn around and tell my kids to refer to my relatives’ sex-buddies as family members.

I’ve had students whose mothers have legally changed their childs name based on a new boyfriend.

 

[JimG]

I wish I had a good answer for the OP. We decided to quit condoning our cohabiting, fornicating relations a while back. We’re the ones in the wrong, of course. We were chewed out for no longer including my cousin’s girlfriend’s name on his Christmas card. When it was pointed out to me that they were getting married, I said that I’d include her name again if that day ever came (still hasn’t). When I declined on the offer to go in on a housewarming gift for another couple, I was told how rude and selfish we were. Someone then mentioned how thrilled my extremely devout grandmother would have been at the news of them shacking up. When I said I didn’t think she approved of cohabitation and premarital sex, I was lambasted for suggesting such a thing. Granted, that wasn’t quite as diplomatic as I’d been in other instances, but if they’re not going to respect our wishes to not support fornication, I felt I owed it to them to point out the error of their assumptions about my grandmother. They didn’t appreciate it, of course, but I don’t appreciate them promoting cohabitation in front of our kids, or even worse, the expectation that our kids should refer to them as Cousin This or Aunt That simply because they’re sleeping with a relative.

This is sad, but it seems to be where we are as a society. I notice that ‘Dear Abby’ now seems to approve of shacking up in recent columns. If a guy or girl is shacking up with their girl or boy friend, approval of all the relatives is almost a given. Anyone who expresses disapproval is being ‘judgmental,’ the most serious sin of all.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

I’ve had students whose mothers have legally changed their childs name based on a new boyfriend.

We’ve seen that happen in our girls’ classes a few times. I always feel bad for the kid when the new faux-dad disappears a couple months later.

JimG:

This is sad, but it seems to be where we are as a society. I notice that ‘Dear Abby’ now seems to approve of shacking up in recent columns. If a guy or girl is shacking up with their girl or boy friend, approval of all the relatives is almost a given. Anyone who expresses disapproval is being ‘judgmental,’ the most serious sin of all.

This is another of those areas where we now always hear the accusations of hypocrisy. Family members have pointed to a couple of my close friends who cohabited before they were married. I still associate with them so I must be a hypocrite. However, I wasn’t a real active Catholic back then, each of my friends was engaged at the time and they’ve been married to that same person ever since. I’m not going to condemn them now over something for which they’ve confessed and made amends. My wife and I have also been called hypocrites because some people we know still cling to the myth that we were sexually active before we got married. We’ve refuted this numerous times, even though it’s not their business, but they still repeat the claims whenever this topic comes up.

 

[Misplaced_Book]

“It is better to pray devoutly for your neighbor than to rebuke him every time he sins.”

-----St. Mark the Ascetic

Fraternal Correction is a very narrow tightrope to walk…more often than not (I indict myself in this) we end up as the Pharisee and cloak our Pride in our Faith.

Are these people friends? relatives? People close to you? Discernment and Humility are key…

“Mind your own business”…while this statement may come off as rude, is actually one of the most profound spiritual insights I have come across in my journey…

“Acquire a peaceful spirit, and around you thousands will be saved.”—St. Seraphim of Sarov

Living the Gospel to those around you bears fruit…it just may not be apparent on the surface, and it is a slow process. Pray fervently, and let God take care of those you love.