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Lucky10279
Guest
But what if she what she keeps coming up with redeculous and frustrating arguments and won’t listen to reason? (And please don’t just say to give up and ignore her.)
How do I respond to someone (on CAF) who thinks that there should be no rules or laws
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Edward_H
Guest
Tell her that you are her friend,that you value greatly her friendship. Tell her you need a friend not a debating partner. Tell her, with a confident twinkle in your eye that one day we’ll pull the books out and go through some of her objections.
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Lucky10279
Guest
But she isn’t my friend. I just met her on this site. I don’t know her personally.
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Edward_H
Guest
Well, leave her alone. You can’t evangelize someone who is not your friend. Pray for her. Befriend her, but don’t evangelize her. That’s a waste of God’s time, yes?
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Lucky10279
Guest
How is that a wast of time?
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RebeccaJ
Guest
You can explain what you believe. CCC 1731-1738 is a good place to start.
1731 Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one’s own responsibility. By free will one shapes one’s own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude.
1732 As long as freedom has not bound itself definitively to its ultimate good which is God, there is the possibility of choosing between good and evil, and thus of growing in perfection or of failing and sinning. This freedom characterizes properly human acts. It is the basis of praise or blame, merit or reproach.
1733 The more one does what is good, the freer one becomes. There is no true freedom except in the service of what is good and just. The choice to disobey and do evil is an abuse of freedom and leads to “the slavery of sin.”
1734 Freedom makes man responsible for his acts to the extent that they are voluntary. Progress in virtue, knowledge of the good, and ascesis enhance the mastery of the will over its acts.
1735 Imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or even nullified by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors.
1736 Every act directly willed is imputable to its author:
Thus the Lord asked Eve after the sin in the garden: “What is this that you have done?” He asked Cain the same question. The prophet Nathan questioned David in the same way after he committed adultery with the wife of Uriah and had him murdered.
An action can be indirectly voluntary when it results from negligence regarding something one should have known or done: for example, an accident arising from ignorance of traffic laws.
1737 An effect can be tolerated without being willed by its agent; for instance, a mother’s exhaustion from tending her sick child. A bad effect is not imputable if it was not willed either as an end or as a means of an action, e.g., a death a person incurs in aiding someone in danger. For a bad effect to be imputable it must be foreseeable and the agent must have the possibility of avoiding it, as in the case of manslaughter caused by a drunken driver.
1738 Freedom is exercised in relationships between human beings. Every human person, created in the image of God, has the natural right to be recognized as a free and responsible being. All owe to each other this duty of respect. The right to the exercise of freedom, especially in moral and religious matters, is an inalienable requirement of the dignity of the human person. This right must be recognized and protected by civil authority within the limits of the common good and public order.
1731 Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one’s own responsibility. By free will one shapes one’s own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude.
1732 As long as freedom has not bound itself definitively to its ultimate good which is God, there is the possibility of choosing between good and evil, and thus of growing in perfection or of failing and sinning. This freedom characterizes properly human acts. It is the basis of praise or blame, merit or reproach.
1733 The more one does what is good, the freer one becomes. There is no true freedom except in the service of what is good and just. The choice to disobey and do evil is an abuse of freedom and leads to “the slavery of sin.”
1734 Freedom makes man responsible for his acts to the extent that they are voluntary. Progress in virtue, knowledge of the good, and ascesis enhance the mastery of the will over its acts.
1735 Imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or even nullified by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors.
1736 Every act directly willed is imputable to its author:
Thus the Lord asked Eve after the sin in the garden: “What is this that you have done?” He asked Cain the same question. The prophet Nathan questioned David in the same way after he committed adultery with the wife of Uriah and had him murdered.
An action can be indirectly voluntary when it results from negligence regarding something one should have known or done: for example, an accident arising from ignorance of traffic laws.
1737 An effect can be tolerated without being willed by its agent; for instance, a mother’s exhaustion from tending her sick child. A bad effect is not imputable if it was not willed either as an end or as a means of an action, e.g., a death a person incurs in aiding someone in danger. For a bad effect to be imputable it must be foreseeable and the agent must have the possibility of avoiding it, as in the case of manslaughter caused by a drunken driver.
1738 Freedom is exercised in relationships between human beings. Every human person, created in the image of God, has the natural right to be recognized as a free and responsible being. All owe to each other this duty of respect. The right to the exercise of freedom, especially in moral and religious matters, is an inalienable requirement of the dignity of the human person. This right must be recognized and protected by civil authority within the limits of the common good and public order.
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AntalKalnoky
Guest
Nice that the Ten Commandments are based on Basic Common Sense of what is right/Wrong. And All Laws are now Based on the Ten Commandments principles, including Perjury: Lying under Oath.
- Would that “No Rules” person mind her Car Stolen, or her Home burned down? What about people going around Lying about Her?
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Nec5
Guest
If a person thinks there should be no rules or laws, then that person just made a contradiction. He or she has set up the rule or law that “there should be no rules or laws”.
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AntalKalnoky
Guest
:clapping::dancing::extrahappy:
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Big_Dummy
Guest
The claim that there should be no laws or rules is itself a law or rule unto them.
Let’s say we are in Nazi Germany and they are Jewish. I am a German guard holding a gun to their head. Why should I not pull the tigger?
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
I think befriending someone is the best way to evangelize. Once you have their trust and they feel you are listening to them, they will be more likely to listen to something you might have to offer.
To the OP, I’m thinking I might start by seeing just how “absolute” their feelings are. Are they talking about civil law in addition to morality? If so, then I might offer some thoughts about the freedom the U.S. Constitution gave us. Never mind the current state of law enforcement. Force on the part of the government is supposed to protect us from having our freedoms infringed on by others. Do they think that there should be no law against murder, robbery, or arson? If so, then you have broken the “absoluteness” of their claim and now it’s just a matter of setting boundaries and specifics.
Oh, and yes, I loved the idea that saying, “there should be no rules,” is in itself a rule.
I don’t know if you can really address that directly, unless maybe in Monty Python fashion if they have that sort of sense of humor. “Argument Clinic” comes to mind. 
Alan
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