How do I respond to this ABC argument?

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Mrs_V

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I have a Catholic friend who is married. We were talking about ABC and both agreed that the pill is evil because it is an abortificant and kills babies. She however doesn’t see why there should be a problem with condoms.

Her argument is that they don’t kill babies like the pill does, and that it is the same as wearing a seatbelt. (That she trusts God not to allow her to get into a car accident, but that she still wears a seatbelt.) So she doesn’t agree that condoms show a distrust in God.

I know the Church is 100% right about this but I don’t know how to respond to that argument.
 
I’m sure someone can explain this better, but a condom separates the unitive and procreative aspects of the martial embrace–it interferes with the act itself, creating an actual barrier between the man and the woman. The marital embrace should be seen as sacramental–renewing the marital vows, it’s a holy act that should be both procreative (ordered to life, not neccesarily naturally fertile) and unitive (for the good of the spouses). To change either or both aspects is to cease it having a sacramental nature. Hope I made sense, lol
 
Well, she’s arguing backwards. She’s acting like condoms and seatbelts are the same because you trust God not to get in an accident but you protect yourself just the same. That’s arguing from your motives to protect yourself, not from God’s motives, which should always be supreme.

God does not desire our deaths. But we will all die. That’s completely unavoidable. Seatbelts just postpone the inevitable plan God has for us, for our soul to join Him for eternity. We are not playing God when we wear a seatbelt. We are preventing ourselves from suffering from someone else’s bad driving or our own.

Condoms, on the other hand, are an attempt to thwart God’s desire to create a new soul. Our choice to not be a part of that plan is when we choose to have intercourse or not. THAT is the real choice. Once we have made that decision, it is not our choice anymore. Condoms are just an attempt to play God and control His creation.

A better simile would be that if the roads outside were icy, a seatbelt may or may not save us. Our real choice is choosing to drive right now, or waiting until the ice melted.

Or maybe a comparison between using a condom and drunk driving is better. The drunk driver may make it home in one piece without killing anyone else, but the law of averages is against him. And even if he did make it home in one piece, driving drunk was still wrong.
 
To compare a child to a car wreck is the worst comparison I can imagine. Children are blessings from God.

Wonder how she would feel if her husband wound only kiss her if she put some saran wrap over her mouth because he was afraid of catching her germs.

Bottom line, the Church teaches that this is wrong. She should read her catechism and speak to her Priest for assistance in understanding.
 
Wonder how she would feel if her husband wound only kiss her if she put some saran wrap over her mouth because he was afraid of catching her germs.
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That says it all! Wonderful!! 👍
 
Then there’s that whole “the man shall leave his father and mother and the two shall become one flesh” thingie that God mandated. Kinda sorta hard to become one flesh when you’re doing your darndest to stick a latex barrier in between.
 
Mrs_V said:
…it is the same as wearing a seatbelt. (That she trusts God not to allow her to get into a car accident, but that she still wears a seatbelt.) So she doesn’t agree that condoms show a distrust in God…
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There is something wrong with her view of children when she equates conception of a child with a car accident. The Church and the Bible regard children as blessings.

Married couples may have serious reasons for not desiring a baby in nine months, but if/when the time comes that a couple wants a baby, planning a baby is not like planning a car accident. Children are not “accidents”–they are blessings.

“Children too are a gift from the Lord, the fruit of the womb, a reward. Like arrows in the hand of the warrior are the children born in one’s youth. Blessed are they whose quivers are full.” Psalm 127:3
 
Thank you very much for your responses.👍 😃 I knew I could get the answer I needed here.
 
Mrs_V said:
I have a Catholic friend who is married. We were talking about ABC and both agreed that the pill is evil because it is an abortificant and kills babies. She however doesn’t see why there should be a problem with condoms.

Her argument is that they don’t kill babies like the pill does, and that it is the same as wearing a seatbelt. (That she trusts God not to allow her to get into a car accident, but that she still wears a seatbelt.) So she doesn’t agree that condoms show a distrust in God.
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Echoing kage and GWK. Having a baby should not be equated with going through the windshield.

Using a condom is like telling your spouse “I give you everything but my sexuality, that most powerful part of me. I’m not sure I trust you to have my baby.”
 
This is the first time that I have ever heard that the pill kills babies…I didn’t know that an egg and sperm when not combined make up a baby. :rolleyes:

Do you even know how birth control pills work…Here is a very basic explanation that I hope you have the ability to understand through your clouded rhetoric of believing that sperms and eggs standing alone somehow make a baby. 🤷

Most birth control pills are “combination pills” containing a combination of the hormones estrogen and progesterone to prevent ovulation (the release of an egg during the monthly cycle). **A woman cannot get pregnant if she doesn’t ovulate **because there is no egg to be fertilized. The Pill also works by thickening the mucus around the cervix, which makes it difficult for sperm to enter the uterus and reach any eggs that may have been released. The hormones in the Pill can also sometimes affect the lining of the uterus, making it difficult for an egg to attach to the wall of the uterus.
 
onetimeposter said:
The hormones in the Pill can also sometimes affect the lining of the uterus, making it difficult for an egg to attach to the wall of the uterus.
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Wrong. The hormones in the Pill also (not SOMETIMES- every time) affect the lining of the uterus, making it difficult for a newly formed human being to attach to the wall of the uterus. Without implantation, the human being dies.
(though I find it curious that this little bit of info isn’t helpfully highlighted like the previous two)

Good grief. Even my pro-“choice” OB/GYN will tell you this much.
 
Feedmysheep said:
Wrong. The hormones in the Pill also (not SOMETIMES- every time) affect the lining of the uterus, making it difficult for a newly formed human being to attach to the wall of the uterus. Without implantation, the human being dies.
(though I find it curious that this little bit of info isn’t helpfully highlighted like the previous two)

Good grief. Even my pro-“choice” OB/GYN will tell you this much.
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A fertilized sperm and egg is a human being? News to me…I thought it was a fertilized egg.

Thanks for the clarification.

Does the Church hold funerals for fertilized eggs that are aborted due to natural causes immediately after conception?
 
onetimeposter said:
A fertilized sperm and egg is a human being? News to me…I thought it was a fertilized egg.
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Not just a fertilized egg–a fertilized human egg containing genetic material from both the father and the mother to create a unique human being. But we’re getting off topic. The original poster asked about barrier methods.
 
onetimeposter said:
Do you even know how birth control pills work…
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Yes I do, thank you. I have a BS and had to take several courses in biology. This thread, however, is not to argue how abortificant ABC pills work. I created it to ask fellow Catholics how to best respond to a friend’s erroneous line of thinking.

Please keep on topic. Thank you again.
 
Mrs_V said:
Yes I do, thank you. I have a BS and had to take several courses in biology. This thread, however, is not to argue how abortificant ABC pills work. I created it to ask fellow Catholics how to best respond to a friend’s erroneous line of thinking.

Please keep on topic. Thank you again.
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How about…MYOB. 👍
 
The Church teaches us to act differently than that. Perhaps you would be more welcome in one of CA’s many debate forums?
 
You don’t need to stick your nose in someone else’s business.

…that is my final answer.
 
onetimeposter said:
The hormones in the Pill can also sometimes affect the lining of the uterus, making it difficult for an egg to attach to the wall of the uterus.
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When the “egg” (actually, the zygote) is wanting to attach itself to the wall of the uterus, it has already been a human person for three to five days.

Fertilization happens in the fallopian tube - not in the uterus. After fertilization, the zygote purposefully and independently (because at this point, it is a living being with independent movement) travels down the fallopian tube (a process that takes a few days) and attempts to attach to the uterine wall, to get food.

If it fails to do so, it starves to death.
 
onetimeposter said:
You don’t need to stick your nose in someone else’s business.

…that is my final answer.
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Talk about sticking someone’s nose in business…you are the one who came here and tried to take over the thread with your pro-choice rhetoric…poor form I say…

For the OP, your friend is basically taking out ALL parts of the marital relation that make it good and holy.
1st they are putting up a barrier to the procreative aspect and essentially playing God.
2nd they are taking out the unitive aspect by putting a barrier between each other.
3rd they are basically saying to one another that I want all of you except your fertility / I want to give you all of me except my fertility.

This is one of many reasons why marriages are having so many problems.
 
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