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Silyosha
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That’s true. And as far as I know Horus was also locked in a coffin or something and then had his body cut into pieces and thrown into the Nile (rather than being crucified). I fail to see the parallel.
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Andrew1983
Guest
Yeah, I hear you. I just find it difficult to heed the Holy Spirit when I see others, especially fellow Gen X’ers buying into this trash. If it was one person, fine, he or she’s a fool, and everyone else is the wiser. The problem is that it’s not just one person, but a whole multitude that’s been brainwashed into taking this as Eternal Truth.
Even in my own rebellion against some of the Church’s teachings, I never once tried to paint Christ as just some other pagan deity or even outright deny the existence of God. I may have been confused about the Trinity in terms of not truly understanding how 3 could be 1, but I realize I just wasn’t at that tier of philosophical reasoning and abstract thinking.
The only thing Zeitgeist ever did was tick me off in such a manner that I began to start researching as much into religion and philosophy so I am more than able to defend and debunk such propaganda at a moment’s notice.
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Bob4BVM
Guest
Right on.
There is more evidence than all those people realize (or want to realize ? )
Not only history, but also logical thought, weighing the facts around Christ’s life.
But how many today will even read a book or do any critical thinking on their own.
Sadly, damn few. Too easy to have it all spoon-fed into their brains by the media and ‘entertainment’ industry.
We exist in this absolutely incredible, beautiful, boundless universe, with a potential for freedom and satisfaction that few have imagined. So big that only something as big as God could fill the void, but we settle for so little. So little.
Someone once said;
What a pity that a race so broadly conceived,
Should end with most lives so narrowly confined.
I ache for those who dread the idea of God so much, that they will never experience the incredible FREEDOM that comes with truly knowing His presence in your life.
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Tony9712262
Guest
This is what I have also heard…But what if the Egyptians had the religion for the true coming of Christ. In other words, Their religion may have predicted the true Lord.Today, while I was in art, some guys at my table, who are very anti-religious, started talking about how Christianity apparently has roots in all these other religions and how Jesus is a “copy” of “sun gods” from other religions, such as in Egyptology. (According to them, this sun god called Horus was born of a virgin, was crucified, etc. Whatever.) They mentioned how Christ’s resurrection is related to the cycle of the sun and all this stuff. Of course, I know this to be completely false, but what would be a good way to respond to this? Can someone explain this away for me? Thanks.
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FightingFat
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There are some decent articles on this right here on Catholic Answers if you dig around with different searches. You might find this one usefulToday, while I was in art, some guys at my table, who are very anti-religious, started talking about how Christianity apparently has roots in all these other religions and how Jesus is a “copy” of “sun gods” from other religions, such as in Egyptology. (According to them, this sun god called Horus was born of a virgin, was crucified, etc. Whatever.
catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9911chap.asp
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Silyosha
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Excellent article. Thank you very much for posting it.
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Bob4BVM
Guest
Here is a FUN way to handle them tactfully and maybe even get them thinking…
Answer them with these 3 questions:
A What do you mean by that ? (…Listen)
B How did you come to that conclusion ? (…Listen)
This will very gently put them on the defensive, which is quite fair since you have a right to ask them to support whatever ideas or understanding they may have of God or your faith. These simple questions might get them to explain their thoughts and help you see where the holes are; Those ‘holes’ are the openings you need to spot, and lead them through, into the light ! ). Remember Jesus asks us to be His light to a world in darkness.
C Have you ever considered …. ? (If you have listened carefully, you can offer them alternative viewpoints to consider, based on your faith in Christ)
What happens next is where it can get interesting, and exciting ! If you are somewhat prepared to discuss the issue, you will find no more stimulating topic, finding answers to questions which have haunted hearts and minds throughout human history. What is amazing is that you don’t need to have all the answers, and how fast your own knowledge of your faith will grow when you engage in these discussions. Someone once said, “if you really want to learn something, try teaching it to others”.
That said , remember who you are in God’s eyes, and that rather than just winning an argument, it is better to engage in a spirit of love and charity to your challenger, with the ultimate goal of opening their eyes to the full truth of the Christian faith as taught by that divine organization founded by Jesus Christ, …the Catholic Church.
Answer them with these 3 questions:
A What do you mean by that ? (…Listen)
B How did you come to that conclusion ? (…Listen)
This will very gently put them on the defensive, which is quite fair since you have a right to ask them to support whatever ideas or understanding they may have of God or your faith. These simple questions might get them to explain their thoughts and help you see where the holes are; Those ‘holes’ are the openings you need to spot, and lead them through, into the light ! ). Remember Jesus asks us to be His light to a world in darkness.
C Have you ever considered …. ? (If you have listened carefully, you can offer them alternative viewpoints to consider, based on your faith in Christ)
What happens next is where it can get interesting, and exciting ! If you are somewhat prepared to discuss the issue, you will find no more stimulating topic, finding answers to questions which have haunted hearts and minds throughout human history. What is amazing is that you don’t need to have all the answers, and how fast your own knowledge of your faith will grow when you engage in these discussions. Someone once said, “if you really want to learn something, try teaching it to others”.
That said , remember who you are in God’s eyes, and that rather than just winning an argument, it is better to engage in a spirit of love and charity to your challenger, with the ultimate goal of opening their eyes to the full truth of the Christian faith as taught by that divine organization founded by Jesus Christ, …the Catholic Church.
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judechild
Guest
You may be a tiny bit confused here, though it really makes no huge difference. To my knowledge, it was Osiris who was chopped into pieces by his brother (Seth or Set depending on your source). Isis put his body back together, with the exception of a single piece that was destroyed, thus Osiris became the god of the dead; because he was dead.
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Bluegoat
Guest
THis is really the other side of an argument one often sees within Christianity though, often among fundamentalists, including Catholic ones. It tends to go “we Christians/Catholics cannot celebrate Halloween” or “all things that come from paganism are evil”.I am always astonished to read and hear so often denunciations of the Judeo-Christian tradition because of parallels to ancient Near-Eastern myths.
For example:
The story of Noah is very similar to the Babylonian epic of Gilgamesh.
Obviously Christianity is wrong.
What!? That is a logical leap that has nothing on the other side. You can very easily say that because of the two being similar, the Babylonians must be wrong.
The better answer is that much of the Old Testament stories and Old Testament prophecies, nay, ALL OF THEM did not exist in a vacuum. The Canaanites, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Hittites, the Greeks, the Phoenicians, the Egyptians, the Nubians, etc. etc. etc. all existed in (relatively) the same era of human history. Stories were shared, as most of these people for quite a long time were predominantly illiterate and therefor relied extensively on oral tradition. What happens when a really good story is told around a campfire? You take it back to your people and recount it and it eventually finds its way into your literary tradition. Distortions are common in order to make it more accessible to one’s people, and to ensure that it, being a really really good story, is maintained.
Prophesies would likewise have been repeated over and over again as a form of “future story telling” in lands outside Israel where local iconography and symbolism would have been incorporated. Naturally, this argument extends to Israel as well, where stories and prophesies originating outside Israel found their way into the spiritual canon of the Israelites. Does this mean that these prophecies are false? Absolutely not. God works by providence, and I refuse to believe that God would have restricted entirely prophecies concerning the Messiah as savior of all mankind to the Israelites alone. As such, stories necessary to ensure that Christ’s Church could establish itself outside the nation of Israel would have been inspired in non-Israelite cultures and would of course been heard by Israelite merchants and brought back to the home fire. Few anthropologists and theologians believe that such figures as Abraham, Noah, Isaac, etc. were actual people in the sense that their stories are contemporaneous accounts of those people. But it is important to remember that, just as Odysseus may not have actually existed, there is truth behind the story and the embellishment, and the morals and purposes of the stories are not diminished but enhanced.
Anthropology is your friend in such conversations, Silyosha, where the virulent anti-Christians try to play off their anti-stance as “intelligence,” especially when there are tons of National Geographics available that discuss this very phenomenon.
Since we actually find Christians making such arguments, I guess it should be no surprise that non-Christians think that the relationships and similarities Christianity has with pagan religion invalidates it.
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Jotobo
Guest
These people are regurgitating a film available on youtube called “Zeitgeist”. It attempts to discredit Christianity, America, and other stuff. Some guys I worked with about 3 years ago came with the same argument.
There are websites that were started or that dealt specifically with this video. I remember a big one was that the scripture references in it were incorrect and misquoted. Dates and timelines were waaay off, etc…A lot of people saw it. I tried to watch it for the purpose of an informed debate with the hope of explaining the truth to them. I got about 35 min in and had to turn it off it was so ridiculous.
The beginning is like an attempt at hypnotism. Its just so far out there I cant believe people actually bought it. But they did.
There is now also a 2nd video that I hear does more of the same.
There are websites that were started or that dealt specifically with this video. I remember a big one was that the scripture references in it were incorrect and misquoted. Dates and timelines were waaay off, etc…A lot of people saw it. I tried to watch it for the purpose of an informed debate with the hope of explaining the truth to them. I got about 35 min in and had to turn it off it was so ridiculous.
The beginning is like an attempt at hypnotism. Its just so far out there I cant believe people actually bought it. But they did.
There is now also a 2nd video that I hear does more of the same.
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latin_rite
Guest
kingdavid8.com/Copycat/JesusHorus.htmlToday, while I was in art, some guys at my table, who are very anti-religious, started talking about how Christianity apparently has roots in all these other religions and how Jesus is a “copy” of “sun gods” from other religions, such as in Egyptology. (According to them, this sun god called Horus was born of a virgin, was crucified, etc. Whatever.
Read that.
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Silyosha
Guest
Yes, the people I’m referring to seem to like this video (or videos) a lot. They reference it quite often. I doubt I’ll ever even attempt to watch it.
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Ockham
Guest
Pray for them.Today, while I was in art, some guys at my table, who are very anti-religious, started talking about how Christianity apparently has roots in all these other religions and how Jesus is a “copy” of “sun gods” from other religions, such as in Egyptology. (According to them, this sun god called Horus was born of a virgin, was crucified, etc. Whatever.
We are currently seeing a new wave of atheism, but it’s all based on old thought. After two thousand years I’m not sure anyone has a new angle on Christian bashing. There have always been these ideas, there probably always will. Some people will keep making them long after entering Satan’s den.
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Silyosha
Guest
That is very helpful. Thanks for posting!
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Bob4BVM
Guest
I know, I hear that argument alot too.
What they do not understand is that you can do all things for the glory of God, when Christ is at the center of all you do.
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Bob4BVM
Guest
Yes, pray for them. Far from a futile request, we generally cannot even begin to comprehend how important that is !]
Hell is Truth Seen Too Late. (Thomas Hobbes)
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GrahamAPhone
Guest
Funny how it seems acceptable to reference a source that (as far as I know) does not reference primary sources… huh
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PaulAndrew83
Guest
to that guy IHeartAquinas.
Noah + Abraham etc were real people and the Bible is accurate in its depiction of them. To believe otherwise is incorrect.
The rest of your post is quite good however.
Noah + Abraham etc were real people and the Bible is accurate in its depiction of them. To believe otherwise is incorrect.
The rest of your post is quite good however.
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GrahamAPhone
Guest
So most of the people cited as sorces in Zeitgeist are like poets and stuff, I think ONE was an AMITURE Egiptologist
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Silyosha
Guest
What a ridiculous video.
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