How do I talk to a priest about a problem he created?

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HelenMary

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I went to our associate pastor a few months ago and asked for some guidance in how to be a good Catholic especially in light of the fact that I was - at the time - expecting our first child and I wanted to have some help to become a good mother. I was asking him for spiritual guidance to be a responsible Catholic mother, but I don’t think he understood my request. (He is originally from India and there is some difficulty with English sometimes.)

He gave me the following books to read:

Why I am a Catholic by Garry Willis
Mary’s Message of Hope by Annie Kirkwood
Mary’s Message to the World by Annie Kirkwood
Psalms for All Seasons by John F Craghan

I started to read each of these in turn but I had to stop because the book on the psalms was so heavily immersed in scholarship it was not easily read and understood; Mr Willis sounded rather angry and even defiant of the Church and Her teachings; Mrs. Kirkwood is a Protestant who claims to have received messages from Our Lady and she says at one point that Our Lady told her, “Now Joseph had already been studying in the different Temples of knowledge, light, and wisdom. … There is no time or space here and so we do not have the time conception you do on Earth. My next lifetime was as a nun in the Middle Ages. … In one lifetime, Joseph and I returned as nuns together and were close friends in this service, but Joseph did not like life as a female and has since returned as a man.” :eek: (Of course, this is a laughable passage too in its way.) Mary’s Message to the World , Kirkwood, pp 82-83]

I had been reading the book until things started sounding questionable. Then I skimmed it. At the point I read that Mary and Joseph had had multiple lives not to mention been nuns together, my jaw dropped, my eyes bugged out, and I slammed it shut. Immediately, I thought, ‘How can I discuss this with our priest?! If these are his personal books - as I think they are - has he read them and does he believe this?! How can I say that I found this material heretical without giving offense?’

I am in a terrible dilemma - from my standpoint - as I do want to show him that there is error here, but I do not want to upset him as he is a good priest in all other respects and gives beautiful sermons on service to God. Please tell me how I can approach him with this, as I have had other people tell me everything from throwing the books away to just give them back and thank him but don’t ask him for any more. :confused:
 
I would ask him if he read the books and if he believed they were true. If his answer was yes I would head straight for the Bishops office to report him.
 
If this is an Associate pastor, I would make an appointment with the Senior Pastor and discuss these “mary message” books with him.

If he is your senior Pastor, then, go to the Bishop’s office. These books are problematic, and perhaps the Priest needs some guidance.
 
You should definately return the books. Ask him if he’s read them and why he recommended them. It is possible that he hasn’t read them. If he hasn’t, then you can share your knowledge. If he has and says they are wonderful, then make an appointment with the Senior Pastor at your parish and tell him the whole story. Don’t expect to be briefed on the results of any conversations the two priests have. After you pass it to the Pastor, assume that it is handled and put the whole thing out of your mind.

In the meantime, look at the EWTN library or someplace similar for other reading suggestions.
 
kage_ar said:
If this is an Associate pastor, I would make an appointment with the Senior Pastor and discuss these “mary message” books with him.

If he is your senior Pastor, then, go to the Bishop’s office. These books are problematic, and perhaps the Priest needs some guidance.
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I suppose I should go the the pastor but he is a very old priest, on the verge of retirement, and he seems indifferent to all goings on in the parish. As my mom says, he’s “just waiting to retire.”

I simply need a way to speak with the associate pastor without hurting his feelings. I don’t think he’s read the books. They seem quite new. Maybe I’m worried for nothing. I guess I’m something of a wimp who fears what *may *happen. I have been praying and praying about this but maybe the fear is obscuring what God is asking me to do.
 
Sr_Sally said:
You should definately return the books. Ask him if he’s read them and why he recommended them. It is possible that he hasn’t read them. If he hasn’t, then you can share your knowledge. If he has and says they are wonderful, then make an appointment with the Senior Pastor at your parish and tell him the whole story. Don’t expect to be briefed on the results of any conversations the two priests have. After you pass it to the Pastor, assume that it is handled and put the whole thing out of your mind.

In the meantime, look at the EWTN library or someplace similar for other reading suggestions.
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Thank you so much. I will say a rosary specifically for this, set a meeting, and go from there.

As for other reading material, a Catholic Women’s book club has started in our parish. We meet regularly twice a month and have been reading deWohl, Newman, and other Catholic writers. Our discussions have given me great insights and I hope to continue to attend in the new year with books by Lewis, Sheen, Chesterton, etc. I will also check out the EWTN library though.
 
In my opinion the best approach is the suggestion that you return the books to him and ask him if he has read them. If he hasn’t it would be a kindness to enlighten him as to their content. If he has read them, a simple statement that they don’t seem to be in accord with what in your opinion the Church teaches would be appropriate. If you get an argument or brushoff, I think it wise to let your Bishop know what is going on over your signature. Unsigned letters are usually round filed by those in authority. Whether the priest is naive or rebellious he needs correction.
 
HelenMary said:
I I had been reading the book until things started sounding questionable. Then I skimmed it. At the point I read that Mary and Joseph had had multiple lives not to mention been nuns together, my jaw dropped, my eyes bugged out, and I slammed it shut. Immediately, I thought, ‘How can I discuss this with our priest?! If these are his personal books - as I think they are - has he read them and does he believe this?! How can I say that I found this material heretical without giving offense?’
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is he the pastor? if not, bring these books to the attention of the pastor, or the man’s superior if he is in a religious order. If he is the pastor, brink them to the attention of his bishop. Without looking at the books I can’t comment, but the quote you give is certainly out and out rank heresy, and the man cannot be teaching and preaching in a Catholic Church setting. before that, in charity, you probably owe him one more meeting explaining exactly why you were shocked at this book, and asking if he knows what it contains. It is barely possible (although not likely, most priests from India are highly educated) he is not familiar with the contents himself but took them as recommended by someone else.

for the record to respond to thread title if there is a complaint about a priest, who is the pastor, in most dioceses you should make a formal written complaint to the vicar general. If the priest is the VG, make the complain directly to the bishop. I am talking about a serious allegation of somethings such as sexual abuse, real substantive liturgical abuse, financial irregularity etc. the complaint should be in writing, with detail, dates, and any supporting evidence, signed, and include your contact info.
 
You cant’ convert every guy who is nuttier than a snickers. Ignore him and get some spiritual direction from an orthodox minded Priest.
 
He should definitely NOT be ignored. Talk to him with kindness and see how he stands on this matter. If he believes those books he should be reported to his superior or Bishop. There is already enough misinformation about our church without a priest teaching it!
 
rwoehmke said:
In my opinion the best approach is the suggestion that you return the books to him and ask him if he has read them. If he hasn’t it would be a kindness to enlighten him as to their content. If he has read them, a simple statement that they don’t seem to be in accord with what in your opinion the Church teaches would be appropriate. If you get an argument or brushoff, I think it wise to let your Bishop know what is going on over your signature. Unsigned letters are usually round filed by those in authority. Whether the priest is naive or rebellious he needs correction.
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I agree with this, as it is consistent with my understanding of Matthew 18:15-17. The priest (or pastor) should be given the right to defend himself to you, before you bring a “superior” of his into it. If, however, he has read the books and insists that they are correct, THEN let the Bishop know.
 
Thank you all very much for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I will speak with him soon and let you know what happens.
 
I love priests. They give up so much to aspire us. It is truly a gift.

The priest did nothing wrong. He is following correctly the teachings of the Nazarene in using gentiles as prime examples of righteousness. In doing so he negated to site and interpret sacred text of the Torah, our and His Old Testament In truth, the Nazarene is tellings us that goodness exists where it is least expected.

In the Nazarene’s time it was, among other examples, the good samaritan and the roman centurion.

Treasure such a priest. It takes a strong willed person to stand on a ledge with nothing but the bible to keep balanced.
 
HelenMary said:
I went to our associate pastor a few months ago and asked for some guidance in how to be a good Catholic especially in light of the fact that I was - at the time - expecting our first child and I wanted to have some help to become a good mother. I was asking him for spiritual guidance to be a responsible Catholic mother, but I don’t think he understood my request. (He is originally from India and there is some difficulty with English sometimes.)

He gave me the following books to read:

Why I am a Catholic by Garry Willis
Mary’s Message of Hope by Annie Kirkwood
Mary’s Message to the World by Annie Kirkwood
Psalms for All Seasons by John F Craghan

I started to read each of these in turn but I had to stop because the book on the psalms was so heavily immersed in scholarship it was not easily read and understood; Mr Willis sounded rather angry and even defiant of the Church and Her teachings; Mrs. Kirkwood is a Protestant who claims to have received messages from Our Lady and she says at one point that Our Lady told her, “Now Joseph had already been studying in the different Temples of knowledge, light, and wisdom. … There is no time or space here and so we do not have the time conception you do on Earth. My next lifetime was as a nun in the Middle Ages. … In one lifetime, Joseph and I returned as nuns together and were close friends in this service, but Joseph did not like life as a female and has since returned as a man.” :eek: (Of course, this is a laughable passage too in its way.) Mary’s Message to the World , Kirkwood, pp 82-83]

I had been reading the book until things started sounding questionable. Then I skimmed it. At the point I read that Mary and Joseph had had multiple lives not to mention been nuns together, my jaw dropped, my eyes bugged out, and I slammed it shut. Immediately, I thought, ‘How can I discuss this with our priest?! If these are his personal books - as I think they are - has he read them and does he believe this?! How can I say that I found this material heretical without giving offense?’

I am in a terrible dilemma - from my standpoint - as I do want to show him that there is error here, but I do not want to upset him as he is a good priest in all other respects and gives beautiful sermons on service to God. Please tell me how I can approach him with this, as I have had other people tell me everything from throwing the books away to just give them back and thank him but don’t ask him for any more. :confused:
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These books are a big red flag that your priest is a bit off the beam. Gary Willis is a known dissident. Give him the opportunity to defend his choices and then point out your concerns visa vie the true teachings of the Church…but if necessary, contact his superior.
 
joseph_virgen said:
I love priests. They give up so much to aspire us. It is truly a gift.

The priest did nothing wrong. He is following correctly the teachings of the Nazarene in using gentiles as prime examples of righteousness. In doing so he negated to site and interpret sacred text of the Torah, our and His Old Testament In truth, the Nazarene is tellings us that goodness exists where it is least expected.

In the Nazarene’s time it was, among other examples, the good samaritan and the roman centurion.

Treasure such a priest. It takes a strong willed person to stand on a ledge with nothing but the bible to keep balanced.
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Jesus never gave His blessing on spreading lies. And there’s more to Christ’s teachings than the Bible…He also established a Church so we don’t end up divided as Protestantism is.

If the priest simply recommended books that were recommended to him (and he is unaware of the contents) then there’s no sin, simply bad judgment. Take the issue up with him first. If he’s aware of what’s inside the books and insists upon their truth, go to the Bishop. God Bless.
 
HelenMary said:
I suppose I should go the the pastor but he is a very old priest, on the verge of retirement, and he seems indifferent to all goings on in the parish. As my mom says, he’s “just waiting to retire.”

I simply need a way to speak with the associate pastor without hurting his feelings. I don’t think he’s read the books. They seem quite new. Maybe I’m worried for nothing. I guess I’m something of a wimp who fears what *may *happen. I have been praying and praying about this but maybe the fear is obscuring what God is asking me to do.
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He is a priest, all the more reason to confront him with these titles; and do you think that he is that thinned skinned that he cannot take some reaction to the books HE recommended. Write the Bishop if you think the other priest is too old to handle it. Don’t be afraid to say something. Afterall he’s the one that recommended the books so you are not out of line in telling him how you found them. I’ve never read those books…they sound strange. I hope you continue to seek out other titles that may be of help to you.
 
As in any discussion of righteousness, one must go to the source. In this case all source of righteousness is the bible. Now. having established such, who should we aligne our selves with?The Nazarene, whom is without sin, or the church, who continually spents millions of dollars in litigation, oftentimes admitting wrongdoing?

If you are stilll not convinced, just do a search on the history of the church and its popes.

I leave it to you to answer.
 
It might be possible that he received the books as gifts and really didn’t read them, although why he would recommend a book he hadn’t read nonplusses me. The titles sound safe enough- maybe he honestly never read them and just assumed they were in line with the Church’s teachings. My pastor often received books as gifts- many from non-Catholics. He would put each book on his bookshelf, possibly reading them, probably not. They were gifts and he was thankful for them, so he displayed them. One day I borrowed and read one called ‘Martin Luther’. It was obviously, blatantly, and unapologetically anti-Catholic! One passage really just brought it home, when the author spoke about Luther’s monastery days. It said something to the effect of: ‘the fat monks would not allow Luther to eat until they had their fill, and by then there were little more than scraps left for him…’ !! I asked my pastor why he had it; he said because it was a gift and he would feel bad not accepting it. Also he got a laugh out of the exaggerations and many times outright lies in the book. But, once again, he certainly would never have recommended it to anyone with questions of faith!
 
joseph_virgen said:
As in any discussion of righteousness, one must go to the source. In this case all source of righteousness is the bible. Now. having established such, who should we aligne our selves with?The Nazarene, whom is without sin, or the church, who continually spents millions of dollars in litigation, oftentimes admitting wrongdoing?

If you are stilll not convinced, just do a search on the history of the church and its popes.

I leave it to you to answer.
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You mean, the Church is made of sinners! Who would’ve thought? Bad popes prove nothing except that the Pope isn’t God, which every Catholic with half a brain knows. Bad priests prove nothing except that they are still men with weaknesses.

Jesus makes reference to the Church, St. Paul does also. In obedience to “the Nazarene,” where does He make mention of the Bible or faithfulness to the Scriptures over the Church? Your argument can never stand using only the Bible, because your interpretation would be as good as anybody else’s…essentially, “Christian” anarchy is the only result.

You talk about following Jesus and yet you have the nerve to make the “Bible argument?” Jesus says “…if he will not hear the church: let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.” Who did Jesus, the Almighty God, choose to head His Church in the beginning: Peter (first Pope) who denied Christ three times - after being warned he would do it! He also tried to get Jesus to not suffer the Passion, and Jesus called him, what? Satan! Do you remember what Jesus did after that? He still told St. Peter (NOT all the Apostles, not the disciples) to feed His sheep.
Judas, who allowed Satan to enter his heart, betrayed Him.

Why did He choose sinners? Because Jesus, knowing everything, knew that we would have more Peters and Judases, but that we shouldn’t worry, because that will not thwart His plan.

If you research the actual teachings of the Catholic Church and don’t rely on false opinion, you will understand what “infallibility” (of the Church and Pope) really is…it’s not what you’re thinking.
 
latinmasslover said:
You mean, the Church is made of sinners! Who would’ve thought? Bad popes prove nothing except that the Pope isn’t God, which every Catholic with half a brain knows. Bad priests prove nothing except that they are still men with weaknesses.

Jesus makes reference to the Church, St. Paul does also. In obedience to “the Nazarene,” where does He make mention of the Bible or faithfulness to the Scriptures over the Church? Your argument can never stand using only the Bible, because your interpretation would be as good as anybody else’s…essentially, “Christian” anarchy is the only result.

You talk about following Jesus and yet you have the nerve to make the “Bible argument?” Jesus says “…if he will not hear the church: let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.” Who did Jesus, the Almighty God, choose to head His Church in the beginning: Peter (first Pope) who denied Christ three times - after being warned he would do it! He also tried to get Jesus to not suffer the Passion, and Jesus called him, what? Satan! Do you remember what Jesus did after that? He still told St. Peter (NOT all the Apostles, not the disciples) to feed His sheep.
Judas, who allowed Satan to enter his heart, betrayed Him.

Why did He choose sinners? Because Jesus, knowing everything, knew that we would have more Peters and Judases, but that we shouldn’t worry, because that will not thwart His plan.

If you research the actual teachings of the Catholic Church and don’t rely on false opinion, you will understand what “infallibility” (of the Church and Pope) really is…it’s not what you’re thinking.
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Well said! I’m glad there were people to put it like that when I was trying on the protestant church. brought me right back to where i belong!
 
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