How do Jews disagree with Jesus as the messiah?

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I’ve often found with jews that since Christ has not as of yet fulfilled every single prophecy he is not to be believed to the jew so I think there is a better way to convince someone who is jewish that Christ has fulfilled the prophecies, not by the prophecies themselves but by his greatest action which affirms his divinity and that he is truely from God. His ressurection.

The ressurection I think there is good evidence for historically, but I think even the Jew who rejects Christ has to admit if Christ had the experience of ressurection as found in Daniel 12 and believed by the apostles, as a physically incorrupt body they would have to admit that Christ is true. If he were risen to glory before anyone else it is hard for me to imagine any jew saying well that doesn’t matter as we must beg the question. What is God doing raising a false prophet from the dead into that glorified state?

This is ultimately what I think the apostles Based their teaching on that Christ has fulfilled the prophecies, in the ressurection which is the main reason we believe in him. That this ensures everything he has said will come to pass and all future prophecies and past prophecies to be fulfilled are met and defended within the context of ressurection.
This is a false statement. If it was somehow proven without a doubt that Jesus was indeed resurrected this would not have Jews flocking to claim him as the messiah. It is a moot point though to begin with. Jesus being or not being resurrected is not why Jews reject him. They can point to a host of reasons for that.
 
This is a false statement. If it was somehow proven without a doubt that Jesus was indeed resurrected this would not have Jews flocking to claim him as the messiah. It is a moot point though to begin with. Jesus being or not being resurrected is not why Jews reject him. They can point to a host of reasons for that.
Your quite right, they probably wouldn’t flock to the church, much like the pharisees and saducees who saw the miracles of the apostles and Christ did not flock to him. The point is that a ressurection of the sense that Daniel in his 12th chapter narrates, if this were to happen to Christ. That is the distinguished ressurection, the glorified ressurection as opposoed to the ressurection to damnation (paraphrasing) that its difficult to see a jew say that Christ still is not of God.

Lets put it this way.

If Christ was risen to the glorified ressurection which will happen for all believers at the end of time would this not be God vindicating him? Why is God going to raise a false prophet in such a way? Quite simply I would suggest he doesn’t and wouldn’t based on the promises of the Tanakh about ressurection of glory being for Israel and the righteous, which obviously cannot include false prophets.

I think if the jew wants to be honest they would have to say well thats only IF he rose from the dead in that way, you still can’t prove that. To which the real discussion begins. But I know why the jews reject him. Did you not read what I said? Thats why I’m rooting it in an area I feel more free and able to talk about, ressurection and asking that the jew follow the logic here. I would ask you to as well.
 
Your quite right, they probably wouldn’t flock to the church, much like the pharisees and saducees who saw the miracles of the apostles and Christ did not flock to him. The point is that a ressurection of the sense that Daniel in his 12th chapter narrates, if this were to happen to Christ. That is the distinguished ressurection, the glorified ressurection as opposoed to the ressurection to damnation (paraphrasing) that its difficult to see a jew say that Christ still is not of God.

Lets put it this way.

If Christ was risen to the glorified ressurection which will happen for all believers at the end of time would this not be God vindicating him? Why is God going to raise a false prophet in such a way? Quite simply I would suggest he doesn’t and wouldn’t based on the promises of the Tanakh about ressurection of glory being for Israel and the righteous, which obviously cannot include false prophets.

I think if the jew wants to be honest they would have to say well thats only IF he rose from the dead in that way, you still can’t prove that. To which the real discussion begins. But I know why the jews reject him. Did you not read what I said? Thats why I’m rooting it in an area I feel more free and able to talk about, ressurection and asking that the jew follow the logic here. I would ask you to as well.
There is no logic here but your own personal warped version. God resurrected some bones quite famously in the Hebrew Bible, maybe you’ve heard of that play out? Does that mean Jews think that passage points to the messiah? Again, resurrection proves nothing and it has been done before in the Hebrew Bible.
 
There is no logic here but your own personal warped version. God resurrected some bones quite famously in the Hebrew Bible, maybe you’ve heard of that play out? Does that mean Jews think that passage points to the messiah? Again, resurrection proves nothing and it has been done before in the Hebrew Bible.
You don’t understand the concept of ressurection do you? And the fundamental distinction between those acts? Do you think the Jewish writers of the new testament though Lazurus’s ressurection was on the same level? Clearly it was not. Christ’s was a glorified body, Lazurus would die again one day, as did those in the Old testament whom were raised temporarily. Now contrast this to Daniel 12.

1 But at that time shall Michael rise up, the great prince, who stands for the children of your people: and a time shall come, such as never was from the time that nations began, even until that time. And at that time shall your people be saved, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of those that sleep in the dust of the earth, shall awake: some unto life everlasting, and others unto reproach, to see it always.

Life ever lasting, to glory, as contrasted tot hat of damnation. This is the pharasaic view of ressurection which saint Paul and the apostles were in the same tradition of. They did not think of the ultimate ressurection, the final destination as it were as some temporary ressurection. This is something which would be for all believers at the end of time of which Christ’s is the example and the first fruits of the ressurection to borrow that Pauline Language.

Jews who actually know this, will understand what I’m talking about, and many i have discussed with have understood and the implications and have not outright dismissed as you seem to. Jews to this day are pharisees and are in the same pharisaical tradition on the view of ressurection. That it is a permenant state of glory.

I’m not talking to a saducee who actually doesn’t believe in ressurection, I’m talking to Jews here who do. And obviously you do not understand these things.

So the inherent logic is this there despite you rather ignorant dismissal of it.
  1. Ressurection is defined as ressurection to the glorified form, an ever lasting existence of the real body.
  2. Ressurection of the body and the glorified existence is believed by Most Jews to this day.
  3. If Jesus rose in this manner, God is vindicating him because only the just will be raised in this manner.
The logic of the premises follows.
 
Might I suggest that newcomers consult the many, many ‘why don’t Jews believe in Jesus’ threads we’ve had on CAF as I suggested in my post on page 1?

Google can be your friend here, “Catholic Answers” plus things like ‘why don’t Jews believe in Jesus’ or ‘Jews Messiah’ should bring a few up.

One thing, old threads should not be ‘resurrected’ (:)), it’s against board policy.
 
The six authentic Jewish Messianic criteria are:
  1. have the correct genealogy by being descended from King David and king Solomon
  2. be anointed King of Israel
  3. return the Jewish people to Israel
  4. rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem
  5. bring peace to the world and end all war
  6. bring knowledge of God to the world
No where in the bible will you find this list, this list you mentioned where established later on in history
 
No where in the bible will you find this list, this list you mentioned where established later on in history
The list may have been compiled later on in history, but it was established as the part of the Talmud referred to as the Mishnah, which constitutes the Oral Law. Orthodox Jews believe that both the Written Law (Torah) and the Oral Law were given to Moses and passed down in oral tradition from one generation to the next. Thus the Torah may not specify the requirements of the Messiah, but the Oral Law does.
 
Just yesterday I was thinking to myself “What if Jesus is not the Prophet?” I was thinking that what if He is the Son of G-d but not the Prophet that everyone’s waiting for, and that maybe Jesus will come back as the Prophet like it was written in the revelation at a later time? So I was thinking about that all day long, and I decided to look for this thread when I would get back home.
When I got home I (what seemed to be) randomly opened my bible, and - out of all chapters - in one chapter in the Gospel of John, I was reading how Jesus said something like “I am the Prophet” 😃 So now I’m indeed back here to this thread, but for another reason: no way that this was coincidence, but Christ lead me to that passage. Case closed… at least in my book 🙂

Edit: Didn’t want to be disrespectful or anything, I know that this thread is about how Jews disagree with Jesus as the messiah and I didn’t intend to argue but I do totally and fullheartedly respect that of course. I just wanted to say what happened to me yesterday
 
The list may have been compiled later on in history, but it was established as the part of the Talmud referred to as the Mishnah, which constitutes the Oral Law. Orthodox Jews believe that both the Written Law (Torah) and the Oral Law were given to Moses and passed down in oral tradition from one generation to the next. Thus the Torah may not specify the requirements of the Messiah, but the Oral Law does.
I was not aware that even the Talmud contains a list necessary of the Messiah

Traditional Judaism has taken some of the things Messiah will do in his return such as the rebuilding of the temple etc… and said these are all the things he will do

Although Jesus didn’t complete all the essential things but he at least completed some of the promises as the Messiah and when he returns he will complete the rest
 
The Messiah ben David is by definition that man who fulfills all six of the criterion in the Jewish scriptures. From a Jewish perspective what makes Christian claims that Jesus was the Messiah ben David so remarkable, is that he did not fulfill a single one of the six criterion.

On the other hand, there is no concept in Judaism that faith in the Messiah ben David leads to personal salvation. There is not a single verse in the Torah or prophets that states or implies that belief in the Messiah ben David is required for or related to personal salvation. The salvation program for Jews is to love God, fear God and keep His commandments.

The six authentic Jewish Messianic criteria are:
  1. have the correct genealogy by being descended from King David and king Solomon
  2. be anointed King of Israel
  3. return the Jewish people to Israel
  4. rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem
  5. bring peace to the world and end all war
  6. bring knowledge of God to the world
We see that each of the six Jewish messianic criteria is empirically verifiable and therefore faith is not required to determine the identity of the Jewish Messiah ben David. We can see if the Temple has been rebuilt, if all the Jews have returned to Israel, if the entire world believes in God and follows Torah, if the entire world is at peace.

Christianity couldn’t overcome the defect of their leader not fulfilling a single one of the six criteria, so they created the concept of “faith” in the Christian leader to overcome this defect. Of course, they were still stuck with the non fulfillment of the criteria for the Jewish Messiah ben David, so they also came up with the concept, which has no basis in Jewish scripture, of the “second coming”. So Christians say, Jesus didn’t have to fulfill the six criterion of the Jewish Messiah ben David ( (which ironically are the way to identify the Messiah ben David), and they say you can put off the fulfillment of these criterion, until Jesus comes back to life on earth a second time. However, if this is true, can’t anyone claim that a beloved deceased relative was a good and righteous man and is in fact the Messiah ben David?. Of course, They’ll have to wait until he returns to know if they are correct in their assumption, however they can claim to have “faith” that they are in fact correct.

That left Christianity with two problems. If the Christian leader didn’t bring about the state of things as stated in the six criteria, what did he do and under what other criteria can they claim that he was the Messiah ben David?

If we read the Christian scriptures, we see that the Christian leader made a couple of egregious misquotes of the Jewish scriptures. None the less, he did say a few really worthwhile things. However, it turns out that these things were lifted from the Jewish scriptures and presented as if original to Jesus in the Christian scriptures.

Here are just a few of many concrete examples:
Psalms 37;11
'but the humble shall inherit the earth, and delight in abundant peace"

becomes in Matthew 5:5 (the sermon on the mount)
‘Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth’

Psalms 24:3-4
“Who may ascend the mountain of Hashem and who may stand in the place of sanctity?One with clean hand and pure heart;”

becomes in Matthew 5:8
“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God”

Lamentations 3:30
“Let one offer his cheek to the smiter, let him be filled with disgrace”

becomes in Matthew 5;39

“…but if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also…”

So Christianity found itself rejected by Jews, since from a Jewish perspective it was clear that Jesus did not fulfill the criteria of the Messiah ben David. In as much as he was rehashing Jewish scriptures, that too was not impressive to the Jews.

In this regard, it should be mentioned that Jesus is mentioned in the Torah as a test of the Jewish people’s faith to God and the eternal covenant:

Devarim - Deuteronomy - Chapter 13

א אֵת כָּל-הַדָּבָר, אֲשֶׁר אָנֹכִי מְצַוֶּה אֶתְכֶם–אֹתוֹ תִשְׁמְרוּ, לַעֲשׂוֹת: לֹא-תֹסֵף עָלָיו, וְלֹא תִגְרַע מִמֶּנּוּ. {פ}

ב כִּי-יָקוּם בְּקִרְבְּךָ נָבִיא, אוֹ חֹלֵם חֲלוֹם; וְנָתַן אֵלֶיךָ אוֹת, אוֹ מוֹפֵת. ג וּבָא הָאוֹת וְהַמּוֹפֵת, אֲשֶׁר-דִּבֶּר אֵלֶיךָ לֵאמֹר: נֵלְכָה אַחֲרֵי אֱלֹהִים אֲחֵרִים, אֲשֶׁר לֹא-יְדַעְתָּם–וְנָעָבְדֵם. ד לֹא תִשְׁמַע, אֶל-דִּבְרֵי הַנָּבִיא הַהוּא, אוֹ אֶל-חוֹלֵם הַחֲלוֹם, הַהוּא: כִּי מְנַסֶּה יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵיכֶם, אֶתְכֶם, לָדַעַת הֲיִשְׁכֶם אֹהֲבִים אֶת-יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵיכֶם, בְּכָל-לְבַבְכֶם וּבְכָל-נַפְשְׁכֶם. ה אַחֲרֵי יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵיכֶם תֵּלֵכוּ, וְאֹתוֹ תִירָאוּ; וְאֶת-מִצְו‍ֹתָיו תִּשְׁמֹרוּ וּבְקֹלוֹ תִשְׁמָעוּ, וְאֹתוֹ תַעֲבֹדוּ וּבוֹ תִדְבָּקוּן.
  1. Everything I command you that you shall be careful to do it. You shall neither add to it, nor subtract from it.
  2. If there will arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of a dream, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,
  3. and the sign or the wonder of which he spoke to you happens, [and he] says, “Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us worship them,”
  4. you shall not heed the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream; for the Lord, your God, is testing you, to know whether you really love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul.
  5. You shall follow the Lord, your God, fear Him, keep His commandments, heed His voice, worship Him, and cleave to Him.
Jesus is presented in the Christian scriptures as a prophet who performed signs, wonders and miracles. The concept of the son of God and the trinity are gods that the Jewish people did not know.

God tests the Jews to keep the eternal covenant between Him and the Jewish people. From a Jewish perspective, for a Jew to “believe” in Jesus is a failure of God’s test. While Judaism teaches that it is easier for the Gentile than for the Jew to get into the World to Come as the Gentile has only to uphold the seven Noahide commandments, the penalty of failing God’s test for a Jew is to be separated forever from God in the World to Come.

Matthew,Mark;Luke and John are the putative authors of their respective Gospels, only Matthew and John are mentioned as disciples and witnesses to to events in the life of Jesus. Mark and Luke did not claim to be eyewitnesses to events in Jesus’ life.

Now we know that the Gospel of Mark (who was not an eyewitness) was the first synoptic Gospel since Matthew copied about 90% of the Gospel of Mark (600 out of 660 verses) and Luke copied over 50% of the Gospel of Mark. Now if Matthew really was a disciple and a witness to events why would he need to copy Mark and rely so heavily of Marks version of events ? (why would he refer to himself in the third person in Matthew 9:9?). Which leaves us with John which contains material not found in Mark, contradicts events reported in Matthew and Luke and contains none of the" historical material" contained only in Matthew and Luke such as infancy and childhood.To make matters even more complicated, whenever they reported "historical material"l not found in Mark (on whose Gospel they obviously relied) and although they were not eyewitnesses, they contradict each other and make alterations and additions to Mark’s Jesus story.

The Epistles make no mention of the Gospels which strongly suggest that the Gospels did not exist until after the Epistles were written. Although this earliest Christian document was written much closer to the alleged lifetime of Jesus, the Epistles speak of a divine being with virtually no reference to physical events on earth or in history. There are no sayings of Jesus, or parables, or miracles or details about his life. There is no crucifixion mentioned, no empty tomb, no alleged rising from the tomb.

Although Christian scholars put forward that the Gospels existed in some form by the late first century of the common era, the first time there is a written reference to a Gospel is a reference to the Gospel of Mark in 125 c.e. and the first written reference to all four Gospels is in 175 c.e.

Now although Christians believe that a god had literally come down to earth, this was missed by every one of the 41 historians who lived during the first and early second century, who wrote about Judea and Rome and whose works have survived. Not a single one of them mentioned Jesus, his alleged disciples, his apostles or any of the miraculous events described in the Gospels.

The lack of sources outside of Christianity has led to reliance on forged passages from Josephus and even trying to interpret Talmudic passages as somehow referring to the Jesus figure. Now Jesus may have existed historically but there is little or no credible evidence supporting his existence.

The Jewish prophets have explicitly stated,that in the Messianic Era, Gentiles will stop being blinded to the truth and realize they have inherited falsehood:

"Hashem (God) my Strength, my Stronghold and my Refuge on the day of distress! To You (God) nations will come from the ends of the earth and say: "It was all falsehood that our ancestors inherited, futility that has no purpose. Can a man make gods for himself - they are not gods! (Jeremiah 16:19-20)
יט יְהוָה עֻזִּי וּמָעֻזִּי, וּמְנוּסִי–בְּיוֹם צָרָה; אֵלֶיךָ, גּוֹיִם יָבֹאוּ מֵאַפְסֵי-אָרֶץ, וְיֹאמְרוּ אַךְ-שֶׁקֶר נָחֲלוּ אֲבוֹתֵינוּ, הֶבֶל וְאֵין-בָּם מוֹעִיל.
כ הֲיַעֲשֶׂה-לּוֹ אָדָם, אֱלֹהִים; וְהֵמָּה, לֹא אֱלֹהִים.

{In the Messianic Era} “Nations will walk by your [the Jewish People’s] light and kings by the brilliance of your shine” Isaiah 60:3
וְהָלְכוּ גוֹיִם, לְאוֹרֵךְ; וּמְלָכִים, לְנֹגַהּ זַרְחֵךְ.

"I will set you [the Jewish People] for a covenant to the people, for a light to the nations, to open blind eyes [in the Messianic Age] Isaiah 42:6-7
וְאֶתֶּנְךָ לִבְרִית עָם–לְאוֹר גּוֹיִם.
לִפְקֹחַ, עֵינַיִם עִוְרוֹת
WOW!
 
I was not aware that even the Talmud contains a list necessary of the Messiah

Traditional Judaism has taken some of the things Messiah will do in his return such as the rebuilding of the temple etc… and said these are all the things he will do

Although Jesus didn’t complete all the essential things but he at least completed some of the promises as the Messiah and when he returns he will complete the rest
We would respectfully say that he didn’t complete any. And nowhere in our Bible does it mention that the messiah- who is a flesh and blood man, will start, stop for thousands of years (and a human being can’t do that anyway), and complete it later on.
 
We would respectfully say that he didn’t complete any. And nowhere in our Bible does it mention that the messiah- who is a flesh and blood man, will start, stop for thousands of years (and a human being can’t do that anyway), and complete it later on.
It’s not quite as easy as that.

Christians find all sorts of ‘links’ to prophesies/what they consider prophesies - the thing is that these ‘links’ are, basically, those that can be ‘fulfilled’ by text manipulation/interpretation, it’s when there would be ‘real world’ consequences that the process falls down.
 
Maimonides (Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon) writes why Jews believe that Jesus was wrong to create Christianity and he laments the pains that Jews felt as a result of these new faiths that attempted to supplant Judaism. However, Maimonides then goes on to say that God has made this happen for a purpose:
Even Jesus the Nazarene who imagined that he would be Messiah and was killed by the court, was already prophesied by Daniel. So that it was said, “And the members of the outlaws of your nation would be carried to make a (prophetic) vision stand. And they stumbled” (Daniel 11.14). Because, is there a greater stumbling-block than this one? So that all of the prophets spoke that the Messiah redeems Israel, and saves them, and gathers their banished ones, and strengthens their commandments. And this one caused (nations) to destroy Israel by sword, and to scatter their remnant, and to humiliate them, and to exchange the Torah, and to make the majority of the world err to serve a divinity besides God. However, the thoughts of the Creator of the world – there is no force in a human to attain them because our ways are not God’s ways, and our thoughts not God’s thoughts. And all these things of Jesus the Nazarene, there is no (purpose) but to straighten out the way for the King Messiah, and to restore all the world to serve God together. So that it is said, “Because then I will turn toward the nations (giving them) a clear lip, to call all of them in the name of God and to serve God (shoulder to shoulder as) one shoulder.” (Zephaniah 3:9). Look how all the world already becomes full of the things of the Messiah, and the things of the Torah, and the things of the commandments! And these things spread among the far islands and among the many nations uncircumcized of heart. (Hilkhot Melakhim 11:10–12.)
 
The Gospel idea that Jesus was “god” (the trinity), he was betrayed (by Judas) and then killed raises interesting theological questions: What does it ultimately mean that “god” was killed? If Jesus was “god,” didn’t he have the power to prevent anyone from betraying and “killing” him? Did Jesus intentionally “die for our sins” or did Jesus die unintentionally, because he was “betrayed?” If his death was unintentional because he was “betrayed,” could he really have “died for our sins?”
God is omnipotent. If Jesus really was “god,” he could easily have prevented his “death.” Therefore Jesus died intentionally. But if Jesus died intentionally didn’t this constitute the sin of suicide? Further, from a Jewish perspective, “since God is “One,” Jesus was not really a distinct person, but God in another form. “As Christ’s human body was phantasm, his suffering and death were mere appearance. If he suffered he was not God. If he was God, he did not suffer.” (A History of Christianity, Paul Johnson, page 90). Do Christians really have compelling answers to these questions? (Asher Norman the inter-faith dialogs)
 
The Gospel idea that Jesus was “god” (the trinity), he was betrayed (by Judas) and then killed raises interesting theological questions: What does it ultimately mean that “god” was killed? If Jesus was “god,” didn’t he have the power to prevent anyone from betraying and “killing” him? Did Jesus intentionally “die for our sins” or did Jesus die unintentionally, because he was “betrayed?” If his death was unintentional because he was “betrayed,” could he really have “died for our sins?”
God is omnipotent. If Jesus really was “god,” he could easily have prevented his “death.” Therefore Jesus died intentionally. But if Jesus died intentionally didn’t this constitute the sin of suicide? Further, from a Jewish perspective, “since God is “One,” Jesus was not really a distinct person, but God in another form. “As Christ’s human body was phantasm, his suffering and death were mere appearance. If he suffered he was not God. If he was God, he did not suffer.” (A History of Christianity, Paul Johnson, page 90). Do Christians really have compelling answers to these questions? (Asher Norman the inter-faith dialogs)
Some of these questions have intrigued me as well. Christians believe that Jesus was fully human and fully divine. I don’t think Christians state that the divine Jesus died, for, as you state, how could G-d have died either physically or spiritually? The suffering of Jesus must therefore have been an indication of his emptied human nature divested of the divine: IOW the separation of the divine soul from the human body. The notion of suicide is not always regarded as sinful in either Judaism or Christianity, especially if it is a self-sacrificed martrydom and done in lieu of committing idolatry. Jesus chose not to prevent his death precisely because he was sacrificing himself to save humanity. Of course, Jews don’t believe such a self-sacrifice was needed to begin with since atonement on the personal level is what G-d asks of us; but that is the way Christians conceive of the savior role of the Messiah in counterbalance to the original sin committed by Adam. Otherwise, the repeated cycle of personal atonement and sin would not result in any significant change in the destiny of mankind. According to Jews, the destiny of all humanity will change–albeit in a different way–when the Messiah brings an end to the Jewish diaspora.
 
The Gospel idea that Jesus was “god” (the trinity), he was betrayed (by Judas) and then killed raises interesting theological questions: What does it ultimately mean that “god” was killed? If Jesus was “god,” didn’t he have the power to prevent anyone from betraying and “killing” him? Did Jesus intentionally “die for our sins” or did Jesus die unintentionally, because he was “betrayed?” If his death was unintentional because he was “betrayed,” could he really have “died for our sins?”
God is omnipotent. If Jesus really was “god,” he could easily have prevented his “death.” Therefore Jesus died intentionally. But if Jesus died intentionally didn’t this constitute the sin of suicide? Further, from a Jewish perspective, “since God is “One,” Jesus was not really a distinct person, but God in another form. “As Christ’s human body was phantasm, his suffering and death were mere appearance. If he suffered he was not God. If he was God, he did not suffer.” (A History of Christianity, Paul Johnson, page 90). Do Christians really have compelling answers to these questions? (Asher Norman the inter-faith dialogs)
What does your Jewish faith say about Metatron, and “(the sacred name) who rained down fire and brimstone from (the sacred name) out of heaven”?

shalom

micah
 
I’d just like to point out I saw a post about Josephus… Actually, the John the Baptist statement and the James, brother of Jesius statement are considered authentic. It’s the “Testimonium Flavianum” that is considered forged. That is all. 😃

Also… Huzzah!
 
Do Christians really have compelling answers to these questions? (Asher Norman the inter-faith dialogs)
“Compelling” answers?–No, I don’t think so.

Worthwhile, plausible, meaningful answers?–Yes.

I’ve never found any religion that had what I considered compelling answers.
 
Some of these questions have intrigued me as well. Christians believe that Jesus was fully human and fully divine. I don’t think Christians state that the divine Jesus died, for, as you state, how could G-d have died either physically or spiritually? The suffering of Jesus must therefore have been an indication of his emptied human nature divested of the divine: IOW the separation of the divine soul from the human body. The notion of suicide is not always regarded as sinful in either Judaism or Christianity, especially if it is a self-sacrificed martrydom and done in lieu of committing idolatry. Jesus chose not to prevent his death precisely because he was sacrificing himself to save humanity. Of course, Jews don’t believe such a self-sacrifice was needed to begin with since atonement on the personal level is what G-d asks of us; but that is the way Christians conceive of the savior role of the Messiah in counterbalance to the original sin committed by Adam. Otherwise, the repeated cycle of personal atonement and sin would not result in any significant change in the destiny of mankind. According to Jews, the destiny of all humanity will change–albeit in a different way–when the Messiah brings an end to the Jewish diaspora.
You did a pretty decent job of comprehending the Christian viewpoint here.

Although, as an edit, we do believe that somehow Jesus as still fully God and fully man was crucified.
 
Kam Fanaian;9556169]My dear friends,
  1. have the correct genealogy by being descended from King David and king Solomon
Jesus had the correct genealogy by being descended from King David…
  1. be anointed King of Israel
Jesus is the King of kings, of both Jew and Gentile…👍
  1. return the Jewish people to Israel
The heavenly Jerusalem…
  1. rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem
Jesus is the Temple in the Heavenly Jerusalem…
  1. bring peace to the world and end all war
eschatology…
  1. bring knowledge of God to the world
Jesus dd…You forgot one; He must be God:

For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
 
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