How do Muslims (who read the NT) answer Luke 24: 19 -27?

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This is a follow up to the Allah thread which no answer was forthcoming so…:

What things?” he asked.

“About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. 20 The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; 21 but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. 22 In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23 but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. 24 Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but they did not see Jesus.”

25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself."

As I am lead to understand the Quran claims conjecture. But doesn’t link to this Bible NT historical event as Jesus explained.

Can a link from Islamic texts shed any light?

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
This is a follow up to the Allah thread which no answer was forthcoming so…:

What things?” he asked.

“About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. 20 The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; 21 but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. 22 In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23 but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. 24 Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but they did not see Jesus.”

25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself."

As I am lead to understand the Quran claims conjecture. But doesn’t link to this Bible NT historical event as Jesus explained.

Can a link from Islamic texts shed any light?

MJ
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Surah 4:
157. And because of their saying (in boast), “We killed Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah,” - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not *:
  1. But Allah raised him 'Iesa (Jesus)] up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens). And Allah is Ever All-Powerful, All-Wise.
  2. And there is none of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), but must believe in him 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), as only a Messenger of Allah and a human being], before his 'Iesa (Jesus) or a Jew’s or a Christian’s] death (at the time of the appearance of the angel of death). And on the Day of Resurrection, he 'Iesa (Jesus)] will be a witness against them.*
 
openmind77 said:
Surah 4:
157. And because of their saying (in boast), “We killed Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah,” - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not *:
  1. But Allah raised him 'Iesa (Jesus)] up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens). And Allah is Ever All-Powerful, All-Wise.
  2. And there is none of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), but must believe in him 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), as only a Messenger of Allah and a human being], before his 'Iesa (Jesus) or a Jew’s or a Christian’s] death (at the time of the appearance of the angel of death). And on the Day of Resurrection, he 'Iesa (Jesus)] will be a witness against them.*
This only shows these Qur’anic verses have no link to Jesus own words. d

Jesus said : How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself."

he’s referring to his own followers who doubted that he had to suffer. Therefore the Qur’an doesn’t refer to Jesus words in the said Qur’anic allegation of conjecture. :eek:

Note not even one believer of the Qur’an has responded.:hmmm:

MJ
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MartinJordan said:
This is a follow up to the Allah thread which no answer was forthcoming so…:

What things?” he asked.

“About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. 20 The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; 21 but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. 22 In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23 but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. 24 Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but they did not see Jesus.”

25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself."

As I am lead to understand the Quran claims conjecture. But doesn’t link to this Bible NT historical event as Jesus explained.

Can a link from Islamic texts shed any light?

MJ
Click to expand...
The unlearned Muhammad, unlike the so-called Protestant reformers, would not know his Bible too well. His wife and and her uncle, where he got some of his information on Christianity, were heretic Christians at best. The rest of his knowledge on Christianity would be most likely those that he picked from his trading acquaintances and those he interacted with in his widely travel activities as caravan trader in the Middle east. Without a formal study in Christianity and getting parts and pieces of it only, he would never get to really study on the word of Jesus himself.

Thus he could never quoted Jesus unlike the Christian Protestants.
 
Reuben_J said:
The unlearned Muhammad, unlike the so-called Protestant reformers, would not know his Bible too well. His wife and and her uncle, where he got some of his information on Christianity, were heretic Christians at best. The rest of his knowledge on Christianity would be most likely those that he picked from his trading acquaintances and those he interacted with in his widely travel activities as caravan trader in the Middle east. Without a formal study in Christianity and getting parts and pieces of it only, he would never get to really study on the word of Jesus himself.

Thus he could never quoted Jesus unlike the Christian Protestants.
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The Jews relished in their Knowledge and their Pride is now evident.

This accusation repeated of old, now used against Muhammad just reflects that same ignorance, which is worthy of much reflection.

May God grant us The wisdom of Justice.

The Word is the Word, we are the rejectors of it, not the chosen that have given it unto us.

Regards Tony
 
TonyBS said:
The Jews relished in their Knowledge and their Pride is now evident.

This accusation repeated of old, now used against Muhammad just reflects that same ignorance, which is worthy of much reflection.

May God grant us The wisdom of Justice.

The Word is the Word, we are the rejectors of it, not the chosen that have given it unto us.

Regards Tony
Click to expand...
Nothing here explains Jesus’ own words. Well?

MJ
 
Reuben_J said:
The unlearned Muhammad, unlike the so-called Protestant reformers, would not know his Bible too well. His wife and and her uncle, where he got some of his information on Christianity, were heretic Christians at best. The rest of his knowledge on Christianity would be most likely those that he picked from his trading acquaintances and those he interacted with in his widely travel activities as caravan trader in the Middle east. Without a formal study in Christianity and getting parts and pieces of it only, he would never get to really study on the word of Jesus himself.

Thus he could never quoted Jesus unlike the Christian Protestants.
Click to expand...
So conjecture is a claim without support.

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
This is a follow up to the Allah thread which no answer was forthcoming so…:

What things?” he asked.

“About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. 20 The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; 21 but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. 22 In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23 but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. 24 Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but they did not see Jesus.”

25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself."

As I am lead to understand the Quran claims conjecture. But doesn’t link to this Bible NT historical event as Jesus explained.

Can a link from Islamic texts shed any light?

MJ
Click to expand...
I have no idea what the conclusions are that you are making Martin.
Are you looking for a verse in the Quran that quotes the exact words of Jrsus as found in the NT?

Could you clarify please?

.
 
Servant19 said:
I have no idea what the conclusions are that you are making Martin.
Are you looking for a verse in the Quran that quotes the exact words of Jrsus as found in the NT?

Could you clarify please?

.
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As I said it is a follow-up from the Allah thread . Link Luke 24 which starts on this thread first post, to the "conjecture " that the Qur’an speaks of. It Is an allegation that doesn’t correlate with Jesus discussion with his people after his Death and Resurrection when he meets them.

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
As I said it is a follow-up from the Allah thread . Link Luke 24 which starts on this thread first post, to the "conjecture " that the Qur’an speaks of. It Is an allegation that doesn’t correlate with Jesus discussion with his people after his Death and Resurrection when he meets them.

MJ
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The conjecture that is being claimed is against those that killed Jesus, thinking He actually died, not against those that walked with Him after His Resurrection.

.
 
Servant19 said:
The conjecture that is being claimed is against those that killed Jesus, thinking He actually died, not against those that walked with Him after His Resurrection.

.
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  1. Who are these people who thought they killed Jesus?
  2. Jesus followers were with him when he was taken to be tried and put to death. So what are you implying about Muslims? They believe Jesus was taken to his death and rose from the dead and walked among his people?
MJ
 
This link from a Muslim website tries to do some linking:

missionislam.com/comprel/jesuscrucified.htm

From above link:

Luke 24:13 And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem [about] threescore furlongs.

24:14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.

24:15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed [together] and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.

24:16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.

24:17 And he said unto them, What manner of communications [are] these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?

24:18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?

24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: 24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.

24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

24:22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulcher;

24:23 And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.

24:24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulcher, and found [it] even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.”

So Luke 24 is there with some selected verses but…no 24:20???, 24:25-27??? :eek:

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
This link from a Muslim website tries to do some linking:

missionislam.com/comprel/jesuscrucified.htm

From above link:

Luke 24:13 And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem [about] threescore furlongs.

24:14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.

24:15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed [together] and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.

24:16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.

24:17 And he said unto them, What manner of communications [are] these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?

24:18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?

24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: 24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.

24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

24:22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulcher;

24:23 And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.

24:24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulcher, and found [it] even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.”

So Luke 24 is there with some selected verses but…no 24:20???, 24:25-27??? :eek:

MJ
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This is what happens Martin when the meaning of the Books are sealed up until the Time of the End. Daniel stated very categorically that the true meanings of the Books are sealed and will be revealed at this time.

Muslims are bending over backwards to the point of omitting verses from Luke to stick to a LITERAL interpretation of the Quran. They believe in some magical transposition of bodies blah blah blah.

It gets silly.

And I’ll be honest, Christianity does it too with the Old Testament, quite blatantly 🙂
(Ezekiel 18 and original sin are not compatible, for example)

I personally am baffled how two religions are at each other’s throats for centuries when neither of them really have authority to interpret their own Scriptures, according to Daniel.

🤷

.
 
Servant19 said:
This is what happens Martin when the meaning of the Books are sealed up until the Time of the End. Daniel stated very categorically that the true meanings of the Books are sealed and will be revealed at this time.

Muslims are bending over backwards to the point of omitting verses from Luke to stick to a LITERAL interpretation of the Quran. They believe in some magical transposition of bodies blah blah blah.

It gets silly.

And I’ll be honest, Christianity does it too with the Old Testament, quite blatantly 🙂
(Ezekiel 18 and original sin are not compatible, for example)

I personally am baffled how two religions are at each other’s throats for centuries when neither of them really have authority to interpret their own Scriptures, according to Daniel.

🤷

.
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This is not bending over backwards. Skipping verses is what’s happening. Plain and clear.

And throwing an unrelated point into this thread is not appreciated. If there is a problem with original sin, best to refer to that thread. Thank you.

We are talking about Jesus here keep in mind. Jews have no interest in him, I would think.

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
This is not bending over backwards. Skipping verses is what’s happening. Plain and clear.

And throwing an unrelated point into this thread is not appreciated. If there is a problem with original sin, best to refer to that thread. Thank you.

We are talking about Jesus here keep in mind. Jews have no interest in him, I would think.

MJ
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Skipping verses has its roots in the ridiculous assertion that the Bible has been manipulated in some way too.

Seriously, unless you see it in the Quran, its man made rubbish.

The conjecture is from those who crucified Him thinking that was the end of Him…they were wrong, Jesus lives today, not just in the hearts of all those who love Him but outside of those hearts also.

.
 
Servant19 said:
Skipping verses has its roots in the ridiculous assertion that the Bible has been manipulated in some way too.

Seriously, unless you see it in the Quran, its man made rubbish.

The conjecture is from those who crucified Him thinking that was the end of Him…they were wrong, Jesus lives today, not just in the hearts of all those who love Him but outside of those hearts also.

.
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So you agree Muslims have no business looking for what happened to Jesus by referring to the Bible New Testament?

And who are those according to the Qur’an that thought they killed Jesus?

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
So you agree Muslims have no business looking for what happened to Jesus by referring to the Bible New Testament?
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Those parts of the Bible which agrees with Muhammad’s Revelation they have the right to acknowledge and revere it. Those parts of the Bible that “SEEM” to contradict the Revelation of Muhammad, they should put it down to the “we don’t know” basket for they should know that the meaning of this seeming contradiction will be clarified when Christ Returns (and Return He has, and the clarification has been given, and unity achieved) 🙂
And who are those according to the Qur’an that thought they killed Jesus?
Click to expand...
MJ
Click to expand...
  1. And because of their saying (in boast), “We killed Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah,” - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)
Who this “they” is, is again conjecture. Since Jesus was oppressed, tortured and crucified, there must have been some groups that wanted Him killed, and they were happy, indeed boastful, that they killed Him. This may be the Pharisees, among others. There is no Quranic verse as far as I am aware that indicates who “they” are…

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