How do non-Catholics attain Divine Union with God?

[WannabeSaint]

The mystics like St. John of the Cross, St. Theresa of Avila, etc. have achieved Divine Union with God in this life. They became so intimate with God, that them and God were basically one in the same. They experience God (not just faith). They knew God’s calling in their life and they knew they were in a state of grace (or else it wouldn’t be possible to have this union.)

That leads to my question…how are non-Catholic mystics ables to achieve the same thing? Many saints from the Eastern Orthodox religion have also experience this Divine Union. I don’t get it. Is Divine Union a subjective thing that favors the pre-supposed beliefs of a particular Christian sect?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Eastern Orthodox people have Apostolic Succession and valid sacraments. For purposes of mysticism and union with God, they are pretty much the same as Catholics, and may even have an advantage over Western Catholic mystics because the Eastern tradition (Orthodox and Catholic both) is more attuned towards mystical union with God.

I also wouldn’t call the Orthodox or Catholics a “Christian sect”.

Would you care to swap in a different example rather than Orthodox, and ask your question again?

 

[WannabeSaint]

Eastern Orthodox people have Apostolic Succession and valid sacraments.

Yes, but EO and Catholics have dogmas that contradict each other. (Ex: Catholics believe in Papal Infallibility, Orthodox do not). So one or the other is in schism with the true teaching of God. They both can’t be right and both can’t be pleasing to God. Why would God be in union with a schismatic?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The dispute over the Pope has nothing to do with either their or our personal relationship with God (which could certainly be pleasing to him for both sides, even if God is not happy with the fact that BOTH sides committed acts which resulted in a separation) or with God’s presence in valid sacraments.

You might as well ask why God comes down in the Real Presence in their Eucharist because why would God do that for “schismatics”.

If they can have a valid Eucharist, then they can have a valid mystical union with God.

 

[WannabeSaint]

But, one of the requirements needed for this union is to be in a state of grace. If one of the religious adherents is going against the true teachings, they would be in a state of objectively grave sin.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

They are not regarded as being in “objectively grave sin” as the Catholic church recognizes that Orthodox have valid confession and absolution as well as being able to receive the Eucharist (Including being allowed to receive it in the Catholic Church if they seek it of their own accord) when they are in a state of grace from having been absolved.

The Catholic Church considers the Orthodox Church to be in “profound” communion with the Catholic Church, as shown by the Catechism.

838 “The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter.” Those “who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.” With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."

 

[Justin_Mary]

They are not regarded as being in “objectively grave sin” as the Catholic church recognizes that Orthodox have valid confession and absolution as well as being able to receive the Eucharist (Including being allowed to receive it in the Catholic Church if they seek it of their own accord) when they are in a state of grace from having been absolved.

Honest question, how?

For instance, a Catholic may be in mortal sin if he did not satisfy his Sunday obligation & therefore cannot receive communion until he receives absolution. An Orthodox may skip several Divine Liturgies & receive communion without the sacrament of reconciliation at all.

I’m a simple minded man, so I find it difficult to understand how neglecting that Sunday “onligation” constitutes mortal sin for a Catholic, but not an Orthodox/Eastern Catholic.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Church attendance rules are a moral and ecclesiastical law put in place by the Catholic Church. The Church authorities are able to dispense people from ecclesiastical laws (for example, remove the Mass obligation in certain circumstances).

The Orthodox Church presumably follows the same moral laws that Catholics do but has different ecclesiastical laws set by their authorities. The Catholic Church would expect them to follow their own ecclesiastical law and not that of the Catholic Church.

Once again, is the purpose of this thread to point fingers at the Orthodox and call them immoral? Because that’s really not what the Church thinks of them.

 

[WannabeSaint]

Once again, is the purpose of this thread to point fingers at the Orthodox and call them immoral? Because that’s really not what the Church thinks of them.

No. The Catholic mystic and the EO mystic in my OP are interchangeable. My question was, since they both can’t be right, one has to be wrong, and thus, one couldn’t have divine union with God since a faithfulness to God’s church would be a requirement for him wanting to unite fully with someone.

It is a mortal sin for a Catholic to convert to EO and it is a grave sin for an EO to convert to Catholicism. Have I been misinformed on this?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

My question was, since they both can’t be right, one has to be wrong

First of all, for 1000 years we were all one. That’s a lot of shared tradition. When you consider that both sides have valid apostolic succession and valid sacraments, including valid confession/ absolution and valid Eucharist, that’s even more commonality. We still share a huge amount of doctrine, enough for the Catholic Church to state that the Orthodox are in “profound communion” with us. It’s not a case like the Protestants where one group went off and started changing a whole bunch of doctrine willy-nilly.

Second, when it comes to the Great Schism, there were many political factors and both sides bear some responsibility for what ultimately happened.

Also, due to the geography and lack of communication, for hundreds of years it was not really possible for most people living in the East to join with the Western Church, nor was it possible for a person living in the West to choose to join the Eastern Church. People had to work on being holy and in union with God in the place where they were, with the church that was there.

With all those things in mind, it does not make sense to me to claim that a devout Orthodox person somehow can’t achieve a close communion with God, or claim that they are in some kind of serious sin just because they’re Orthodox, especially when said Orthodox person didn’t have anything to do with creating the actual schism. Nor would it make sense to me for an Orthodox to say the same about Catholics.

 

[po18guy]

You have many doubts, wannabe.

The Orthodox have valid Sacraments, visions and visionaries, mystics and mysticism, miracles, you name it.

Why would they not?

Are you talking about Bubba’s Street Corner Church and Auto Repair? You’re on your own there.