P
PRmerger
Guest
What is it youāre saying, 1beleevr? That what you see with your eyes is only that which you believe?]
Emmanuel was physically visible to the naked eye; whereas He is not in the eucharist!
- Status
J
jmcrae
Guest
Of course He is visible in the Eucharist - He looks like bread and wine!]
Emmanuel was physically visible to the naked eye; whereas He is not in the eucharist!
A lot of people didnāt believe that God would come to the earth looking like a man, either.
P
PRmerger
Guest
Now, correct me if Iām wrong, 1beleevr, but didnāt we have a conversation way back when about church shopping?
So do you do some church-shopping, 1beleevr, to find a church that fit with YOUR theology?
That always puzzles me when people leave a denomination because they disagree with the pastorās interpretation of Scriptures. Didnāt they know he was a fallible man when they joined the denomination?
And church-shopping puzzles me, too, as it seems arrogant to go looking for something that matches your own fallible, non-authoritative interpretations of Scripture, rather than conforming your beliefs to Christās teachings.
W
Wildkit
Guest
I do not know if my experience is with a non-denominational religion, but it could have been. My former wife stated and we went to churches that seemingly had the ābestā preacher. Of course, listening to an awe inspiring sermon was neat,ā¦ā¦but was it correct?
My wifeās family thought this was the way. As a Catholic, I tried to live my beliefs.
My former spouse chose a belief in presentation. I have not been a proper example, yet maybe I am one of the other 33,000 denominations that have a different perspective.
My wifeās family thought this was the way. As a Catholic, I tried to live my beliefs.
My former spouse chose a belief in presentation. I have not been a proper example, yet maybe I am one of the other 33,000 denominations that have a different perspective.
G
graceandglory
Guest
And why I listed it. Only moving, soul-soothing, house-rocking music doesnāt define TRUTH, and I can listen to it whenever I want to, and I donāt have to use my Sunday morning worship time to go to a concert.
G
graceandglory
Guest
only if it makes you laugh. When I wrote it, it was based on observation. And this observation doesnāt make me laugh. It breaks my heart.
1
1beleevr
Guest
]
Not at all; for faith does not dwell in the house of certainty! But, comparing God in the flesh to Jesus in the eucharist, is apples and oranges! Using your logic, we non-catholics could say that we feel Him, and experience deep communion with Him(we do BTW), as we partake of communion! You do not have the market cornered on meeting Him this way!
1
1beleevr
Guest
]And why I listed it. Only moving, soul-soothing, house-rocking music doesnāt define TRUTH, and I can listen to it whenever I want to, and I donāt have to use my Sunday morning worship time to go to a concert.
And we donāt use our Sunday morning worship time for concerts, either! We make a joyful noise unto Our Lord(Psalms 100:1), you know, like when David and the people were celebrating the return of the Ark of the Covenant? You see, itās alright to let your hair down and honor your Heavenly Father with either solemn,slow worship and praise songs or hand clapping, soul charging āWE love You, Lord,ā songs! And pope John Paul II was right, we as Believers, need to proclaim Christ to ALL nations, and ALL peoples; every last one of us who claim the title of Christian!
1
1beleevr
Guest
]And why I listed it. Only moving, soul-soothing, house-rocking music doesnāt define TRUTH, and I can listen to it whenever I want to, and I donāt have to use my Sunday morning worship time to go to a concert.
How do you know, as an ordinary believer, that contemporary Christian music does not define TRUTH?
P
PRmerger
Guest
Amen!
Hereās the comparison:
You said that itās āinterestingā that Jesus is present āunder the appearanceā of bread and wine. I understand you to mean that this is really too unbelievable. It looks like bread and wine, therefore it isāis that your argument, 1beleevr?
In response we Catholics say: Itās also āinterestingā that God appeared as a man. That, too, sounds unbelievable. I mean, he looked like a mere manācertainly not Divine in appearance!
So if you believe God can appear as a man, then itās also possible to believe that Jesus can appear as bread and wine.
You are absolutely correct. I am certain that your experiences in your Protestant churches are true and deep and wonderful. I donāt think Iāve ever suggested otherwise.Using your logic, we non-catholics could say that we feel Him, and experience deep communion with Him(we do BTW), as we partake of communion! You do not have the market cornered on meeting Him this way!
However, only those who have the Eucharist at their liturgies have the most intimate form of communion with Himāthe One Flesh Union. There is no other way to receive Him this intimately than through the Eucharist. This is the Marital Embrace between the Lover and His Beloved.
The marital embrace between husband and wife is only an icon, or a reflection, of the True Union we share with Him in the Eucharist. How magnficent is* that*, 1beleevr? Donāt you long to be united with Him in thos One Flesh Union?
1
1beleevr
Guest
]
We most likely did, but I donāt recall saying that I was church shopping, or was a church gypsy, to coin a phrase
And since we both are led by fallible men, it comes down to a question of faith and interpretation! just because Iām not catholic, does not mean I donāt follow Christās teachings, or that I have my own theology! I meet many people from all walks of life who, for one reason or another, disregard or dismiss one or more of Christās teachings.He told US too go into all the earth, baptizzing in the name of the Father the Son, and the Holy Spirit, making disciples of all, and yet, we find excuses not to! I am so blessed to be able to take the Gospel to wherever I go, not feeling any shame about my beautiful, wonderful Saviour! Just last week, our church went to a homeless center and fed over 120 families, praying with them, and sharing Godās love with them. If this is what you would call my own theology, then maybe I need to change tactics! Jesus also taught US to love others as orselves. Are we able to do that?
1
1beleevr
Guest
Why are you so quick to dismiss the non-catholic observance of communion? Every time I take communion, I am weeping with joyful tears; drawn to my Saviourās side, through the partaking of the bread and juice! And I donāt believe the eucharist is the only way to receive Christ!
P
PRmerger
Guest
sigh!
I just said, I believe, that I believe Protestant churches have a deep and wonderful experience of God.
I dismiss nothing which you experience. Again: I dismiss nothing about your experience of Christ.
I respect and admire your love of God and love of His Word, dear Friend and Brother in Christ.
You simply do not have the One Flesh Union. There is no Marital Embrace. :sad_yes:
1
1beleevr
Guest
]Of course He is visible in the Eucharist - He looks like bread and wine!
A lot of people didnāt believe that God would come to the earth looking like a man, either.
He just isnāt visible as He was depicted by artists, so you must close your eyes and feel Him and imagine that He is with you; much like I do when I partake of communion! Amazing, huh; prophets told of the Messiah coming as a child, and people scoffed! many today would probably do the same! To believe that the God who spoke the universe into existence, could manifest Himself in human form, was a bit much for many of that era to absorb! Isnāt faith a wonderful thing? It is how I commune with my Saviour whether in prayer, while fasting, or partaking of communion!
1
1beleevr
Guest
G
graceandglory
Guest
Just because you donāt call it a concert, doesnāt mean thatās not what the people get when they go there. See what happens if your music ministers donāt show up. I know, I am a former music minister. Just give it time. You see, when the music minister doesnāt show up at my Catholic Church, or the pastor is switched for an old retired priest who doesnāt speak in a dialect I understand, Jesus still shows up.]
And we donāt use our Sunday morning worship time for concerts, either! We make a joyful noise unto Our Lord(Psalms 100:1), you know, like when David and the people were celebrating the return of the Ark of the Covenant? You see, itās alright to let your hair down and honor your Heavenly Father with either solemn,slow worship and praise songs or hand clapping, soul charging āWE love You, Lord,ā songs! And pope John Paul II was right, we as Believers, need to proclaim Christ to ALL nations, and ALL peoples; every last one of us who claim the title of Christian!
G
graceandglory
Guest
But do you eat His true Body and drink His true Blood?]
And yet, I am lacking in nothing; He gives me everything I need!
Or do you just partake in a symbol?
G
graceandglory
Guest
I tested it and found it wanting. I am in my 2nd generation of CCM right now. I was a CCM front-row groupie in the 80s, now my son is following in my footsteps. Oh yeah, his dad was a CCM deejay.
P
PRmerger
Guest
As I posted to you earlier:]
And yet, I am lacking in nothing; He gives me everything I need!
I have no doubt that your friendship with Christ is fulfilling and admirable. Itās just that you and He cannot consummate your relationship without the Eucharist. You and Jesus are best buddies. [SIGN1]But not One Flesh.[/SIGN1]
Think of it this way: You and Jesus have a platonic friendship. Heās your beloved friend and you can call him up any time and heāll meet you wherever you are. Catholics have a āspousalā relationship with Christ. We can call him up any time and heāll meet with us wherever we are, too, but whenever we want to share a marital embrace, an intimate One Flesh Union, we go to a special place to do that.
G
graceandglory
Guest
You said this way better than me.
More on Spousal Theology. Donāt worry, itās probably more palatable to an evangelical than to many Catholicsā¦
christopherwest.com/page.asp?ContentID=70
- Status