How do non-denominational Christians pick a church?

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SonofMonica said:
I assume you are talking about a mean average. How, then, is it obviously not true?
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I said it was averages.
PRmerger said:
Why does that number bother you?
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It doesn’t bother me. You can use whatever numbers you like, but it is bunk, and you know it. I 'd say 95% of protestants probably fall within 10 denominations (and that is generous) with the remainder 5% falling within your 39,990 denominations. Which would equal to something like 1,000 members per denomination and falling because next week you will say there is 41,000 denominations.
 
Xavierlives said:
It doesn’t bother me. You can use whatever numbers you like, but it is bunk, and you know it. I 'd say 95% of protestants probably fall within 10 denominations (and that is generous) with the remainder 5% falling within your 39,990 denominations. Which would equal to something like 1,000 members per denomination and falling because next week you will say there is 41,000 denominations.
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Source for this, please!
 
Xavierlives said:
Which would equal to something like 1,000 members per denomination and falling because next week you will say there is 41,000 denominations.
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Ok. Let’s say I accept your (as of now undocumented) statistic. In fact, I do accept this last statement–it proves my point quite nicely!

And how does that change the number and make it “bunk”? It simply* heightens *the reality that each and every yahoo who feels he can read Scripture and then form his own denomination, can (and does!).

This is a paradigm created in hell. And, is proof that reading the Scriptures without ceding to the pillar and foundation of truth will lead to this type of obscenity.
 
PRmerger said:
Ok. Let’s say I accept your (as of now undocumented) statistic. In fact, I do accept this last statement–it proves my point quite nicely!

And how does that change the number and make it “bunk”? It simply* heightens *the reality that each and every yahoo who feels he can read Scripture and then form his own denomination, can (and does!).

This is a paradigm created in hell. And, is proof that reading the Scriptures without ceding to the pillar and foundation of truth will lead to this type of obscenity.
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It is bunk because you got your statistics from what source, Christiandom Encyclopedia?

I still can reject your numbers, because they fishy. Instead I tried to use your number and a good estimate of protestants. That number is 800,000,000. 5% of that is 40,000,000. 40,000,000 /39,990 = roughly 1,000.

As for proving your point, nothing is proven. I provided numbers to show how 40,000 denominations is a hokie number taken out of a brown paper bag, to serve some purpose of division.

I’d say, instead of working so hard against Protestants, try working to promote Christianity. If just 5% of that work is fruitful you might create dividends in the thousands.
 
MyRdmrLvs said:
most of those churches would all consider themselves apart of one big universal church.
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While having nothing whatsoever to do with any of its earthly authority, seeing themselves as being “above such things” as being accountable to the Bishops for what they teach in their Sunday Schools and how they conduct their services of worship, etc.
 
jmcrae said:
While having nothing whatsoever to do with any of its earthly authority, seeing themselves as being “above such things” as being accountable to the Bishops for what they teach in their Sunday Schools and how they conduct their services of worship, etc.
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Don’t I only need spiritual authority?
 
Xavierlives said:
Don’t I only need spiritual authority?
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First of all “spiritual authority” is no authority at all - it’s just “what I feel” which is not a basis for authority. It’s a basis for a personal opinion, but nobody out there has to agree with your personal opinion - they have their own.

Second, Jesus said, “Take it to the Church,” (Matt. 18:15ff) which means that the Church has to be something that both you and your opponent can “go to” (it has a physical location; there is only one; both of you as Christians are subject to the same one) and that both of you can listen to (it has an audible voice that speaks to both of you at the same time, where you both hear the same advice being given to you.)

Third, the majority of the New Testament points to an earthly, visible authority that acted decisively. In Acts 15, the Church made a ruling that binds all Christians on earth even to this very day. It was not an “invisible” or “spiritual” organization - it was a group of men appointed by Christ with real authority to tell other Christians what to do and how to behave. Those who disobeyed them were no longer considered “Christians.” In the whole of Acts 15, we do not find the phrases “I feel” or “I think.”
 
Xavierlives said:
So did John the Baptist have earthly authority to baptize Jesus?
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Yes. He was a Levitical priest. Not just some random guy wandering around in the wilderness and appointing himself to be a Prophet of God. Read Luke 1, and reference back to Exodus 28, to see where he got his earthly authority from.
 
jmcrae said:
First of all “spiritual authority” is no authority at all - it’s just “what I feel” which is not a basis for authority. It’s a basis for a personal opinion, but nobody out there has to agree with your personal opinion - they have their own.

Second, Jesus said, “Take it to the Church,” (Matt. 18:15ff) which means that the Church has to be something that both you and your opponent can “go to” (it has a physical location; there is only one; both of you as Christians are subject to the same one) and that both of you can listen to (it has an audible voice that speaks to both of you at the same time, where you both hear the same advice being given to you.)

Third, the majority of the New Testament points to an earthly, visible authority that acted decisively. In Acts 15, the Church made a ruling that binds all Christians on earth even to this very day. It was not an “invisible” or “spiritual” organization - it was a group of men appointed by Christ with real authority to tell other Christians what to do and how to behave. Those who disobeyed them were no longer considered “Christians.” In the whole of Acts 15, we do not find the phrases “I feel” or “I think.”
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I am not trying to diminish your desire for earthly authority. But if offered earthy authority or spiritual authority, I’d readily pass on things of the earth. Things here will burn away, but things of the Father are eternal.

And, I wholeheartedly disagree. We see in John 3:5-6
5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

You can take your works of man, you can take your tall buildings, and your pretty statues and in the end we will weigh them against anyone’s speck of spirtual work. That flake spiritual work will crush all the works of man. Not because I did them, quite contrary, because God did them, with His authority. If you continue to believe in things of the world, you will inherit the world. Start thinking of things of God, and you will inherit his rewards.
 
jmcrae said:
Yes. He was a Levitical priest. Not just some random guy wandering around in the wilderness and appointing himself to be a Prophet of God. Read Luke 1, and reference back to Exodus 28, to see where he got his earthly authority from.
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Yes! Luke 1 says what?

Not to drag this out, I’ll quote it.
15 For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. 16 And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God.17 He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, ‘to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,’and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
 
Xavierlives said:
Yes! Luke 1 says what?

Not to drag this out, I’ll quote it.
15 For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. 16 And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God.17 He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, ‘to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,’and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
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It says that John the Baptist’s authority came from God. All three persons of the Holy Trinity are mentioned in the verses you just quoted.

And foreshadowing the new priesthood that Jesus would establish on Earth, as well as the depiction of worship in heaven contained in Revelation, the angel does appear to a Priest, Zechariah, while he is doing spooky Catholic-like things, like incensing altars and hanging out around tabernacles. Imagine that. 👍
 
Xavierlives said:
Jesus did?
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By means of the authority given by God to Aaron. Did you read Exodus 28?

John the Baptist’s father was Zechariah, who traced his priesthood in an unbroken line back to Aaron. What you quoted is taken from what the Angel Gabriel said to Zechariah - why is Gabriel speaking to Zechariah, and not in person to St. John the Baptist? Because it is from Zechariah that St. John the Baptist receives his authority - an unbroken line of authority that goes all the way back to Aaron.
 
SonofMonica said:
Yes, he is the 2nd person of the Trinity, after all. God gives earthly authority to whom he wishes. That power is now vested in the Catholic Church to fulfill the Great Commission.
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Mind pointing toward some scripture?

I see Matt 3:13-17:

13Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

14But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

15And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Then Mark 1:9-11
9And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.

10And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

11And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Then Luke 3:21-22
21Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,

22And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

And John 1:32-34
32And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

34And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

So am I missing something?
 
jmcrae said:
By means of the authority given by God to Aaron. Did you read Exodus 28?

John the Baptist’s father was Zechariah, who traced his priesthood in an unbroken line back to Aaron. What you quoted is taken from what the Angel Gabriel said to Zechariah - why is Gabriel speaking to Zechariah, and not in person to St. John the Baptist? Because it is from Zechariah that St. John the Baptist receives his authority - an unbroken line of authority that goes all the way back to Aaron.
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But John is not working as a priest, right? He is working under a prophetic authority not a priest’s authority. Exodus 28 is nice, but he is wearing Camelhair not fine linens of blue and gold.

God has him doing this for a reason.
 
Xavierlives said:
But John is not working as a priest, right? He is working under a prophetic authority not a priest’s authority.
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You’re creating a false dichotomy. In addition to prophetic and priestly authority, he was also acting under the command of an angel, so you can add angelic authority, as well as authority obtained directly from the Trinity, so you can add trinitarian authority. But remember, this guy was consecrated by a priest from birth. You can’t take the priesthood out of the equation.
 
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