How do non-denominational Christians pick a church?

[PRmerger]

]

Probably the same Holy Spirit that tells the rest of us that we don’t have to spend time in purgatory; but apparently tells catholics they do! There shouldn’t be any argument that man(including priests, pastors, ministers, and even your pope) is fallible! And I do believe Jesus, when He told ME that the Holy Spirit would lead me into ALL TRUTH!

So then, if the HS is infallible, and the HS is guiding you to truth, then are you claiming, 1beleevr, to be infallible in your personal interpretation of the Scriptures?

I really don’t think you are claiming to be infallible, for a I know you to be a man of humble servitude, but that’s the logical conclusion.

BTW, the pope is ineed a fallible man. So he can say, “I believe it’s going to rain today” and he may be fallible in his understanding of metereology.

However, when he declares something in the area of faith and morals, then he’s being guided by the HS and incapable of teaching error.

 

[1beleevr]

So then, if the HS is infallible, and the HS is guiding you to truth, then are you claiming, 1beleevr, to be infallible in your personal interpretation of the Scriptures?

I really don’t think you are claiming to be infallible, for a I know you to be a man of humble servitude, but that’s the logical conclusion.

BTW, the pope is ineed a fallible man. So he can say, “I believe it’s going to rain today” and he may be fallible in his understanding of metereology.

However, when he declares something in the area of faith and morals, then he’s being guided by the HS and incapable of teaching error.

]

I am as fallible as the next human being, but thank God that His Word is infallible:thumbsup: And I do FIRMLY believe that each and every Christian can be led by the Holy Spirit into Truth! And if we were going to be catholics, I believe we would have been by now! And, most people I know, like myself, would be "cafeteria catholics; something I know most true catholics disdain, although the church allows them!

 

[Xavierlives]

That’s certainly proven false by the existence of over 40,000 different denominations, some teaching CONTRARY doctrines–yet each claiming the Holy Spirit led them into this “truth”.

So are you saying the Holy Spirit guides all these Christian to the truth?

Ask youself: Does it change God’s Message?

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ, and then tell the Baptists it is only a symbol?

No.

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Methodists it is alright to have female ministers, and then tell the Baptists it is unbiblical?

Yes. Ruh-roh. We might have a problem.

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Seventh Day Adventists that Saturday is the day of worship, and then tell the Presbyterians the day of worship is Sunday and not Saturday?

No.

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and remains always virgin, and then tell the Baptists she had other children?

No.

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Baptists, ‘once saved always saved’, and then tell the Church of Christ that Sola Fides is unscriptural?

No.

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell Episcopalians to baptize infants and then tell Pentecostals infant baptism is invalid?

No.

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell Mormons that the Holy Trinity is three separate persons, and then tell Methodists the Trinity is three persons in one GOD

Yes. Ruh-roh. We might have a problem.

 

[PRmerger]

]

I am as fallible as the next human being, but thank God that His Word is infallible:thumbsup: And I do FIRMLY believe that each and every Christian can be led by the Holy Spirit into Truth! And if we were going to be catholics, I believe we would have been by now! And, most people I know, like myself, would be "cafeteria catholics; something I know most true catholics disdain, although the church allows them!

So, when 2 people, both sincere and prayerful, read the Scriptures and come to 2 totally different and contradictory interpretations, in your systemology,[SIGN1] who is correct?[/SIGN1]

In my systemology, they “take it to the Church” (as Scripture commands), that is, the Church is the final authority, the pillar and foundation of truth.

In your systemology…how do you determine the Truth?

Also, the Bible cannot be “infallible.”. It is inerrant.

Infalliblity requires a will and an intellect, which, of course, the Bible does not have.

 

[PRmerger]

Ask youself: Does it change God’s Message?

Yes. Ruh-roh. We might have a problem.

Mmm-hmmm. Exactly. [SIGN1] A mighty big one, at that.[/SIGN1]

Either the CC is true in proclaiming that the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ, or it’s a monstrous lie.

Can’t be both.

 

[Xavierlives]

Mmm-hmmm. Exactly. [SIGN1] A mighty big one, at that.[/SIGN1]

Either the CC is true in proclaiming that the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ, or it’s a monstrous lie.

Can’t be both.

I just don’t see it as a problem. If we are both honoring Christ in remembrance for what he did, it doesn’t matter to me that you believe that the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. It shouldn’t matter to you that I believe that it is representational.

We are one in following what Jesus said.

 

[1beleevr]

So, when 2 people, both sincere and prayerful, read the Scriptures and come to 2 totally different and contradictory interpretations, in your systemology,[SIGN1] who is correct?[/SIGN1]

In my systemology, they “take it to the Church” (as Scripture commands), that is, the Church is the final authority, the pillar and foundation of truth.

In your systemology…how do you determine the Truth?

Also, the Bible cannot be “infallible.”. It is inerrant.

Infalliblity requires a will and an intellect, which, of course, the Bible does not have.

]

Well, let’s see; Jesus is the Truth, and we know that He can’t lie, so when we have differences of opinion(as humans are wont to be), we pray about it and consult our spiritual leader, the pastor, who is better schooled in the Word than we normal Christians! And it’s not so much about who’s right or wrong, but that the inerant Word of God is always correct. And another place we differ, is that from that scripture about ,“take it to the church,” I believe Jesus meant the church one is attending! That’s what we do at our church! God bless you!

 

[1beleevr]

I just don’t see it as a problem. If we are both honoring Christ in remembrance for what he did, it doesn’t matter to me that you believe that the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. It shouldn’t matter to you that I believe that it is representational.

We are one in following what Jesus said.

]

I have been following your posts, brother, and you make a lot of sense, in these times when so many argue over trivial things Personally, I am denomination blind(as well as color blind). I do not view you(or anyone else) by the religiuos title they have chosen; as this is not what defines you! It is not who you are, rather who you are in CHRIST! FAITH DOES NOT DWELL IN THE HOUSE OF CERTAINTY!

 

[PRmerger]

I just don’t see it as a problem. If we are both honoring Christ in remembrance for what he did, it doesn’t matter to me that you believe that the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. It shouldn’t matter to you that I believe that it is representational.

We are one in following what Jesus said.

Certainly you don’t see it as a problem on this particular issue.

But you do agree that there are certain things that would be a problem

Therein lies the rub!

Why do you get to decide that, say, it’s absolutely wrong for a Christian to worship the devil? Or that a Christian could not say women are unworthy to enter heaven?

See, Xavier, you promote a supreme hypocrisy in first proclaiming, “it doesn’t really matter what anyone believes as long as we follow Christ” yet also say, “you cannot follow Christ and believe __________”

 

[PRmerger]

]

Well, let’s see; Jesus is the Truth, and we know that He can’t lie, so when we have differences of opinion(as humans are wont to be), we pray about it and consult our spiritual leader, the pastor, who is better schooled in the Word than we normal Christians!

Better schooled, possibly, yet fallible as well, yes?

Fallible, by definition, means he’s going to be wrong. Guaranteed. [SIGN1]Going to be Wrong.[/SIGN1]

I, for one, will not rest my eternal salvation in the beliefs of a man who is guaranteed to be in error at some point in his teaching.:bigyikes:

 

[Xavierlives]

Certainly you don’t see it as a problem on this particular issue.

But you do agree that there are certain things that would be a problem

Therein lies the rub!

Why do you get to decide that, say, it’s absolutely wrong for a Christian to worship the devil? Or that a Christian could not say women are unworthy to enter heaven?

See, Xavier, you promote a supreme hypocrisy in first proclaiming, “it doesn’t really matter what anyone believes as long as we follow Christ” yet also say, “you cannot follow Christ and believe __________”

Well my problems with certain theology, I imagine is the same problem that others have. I take issue with the polytheism of Mormonism.

And I am not “deciding” anything. It is not my place.

 

[1beleevr]

Certainly you don’t see it as a problem on this particular issue.

But you do agree that there are certain things that would be a problem

Therein lies the rub!

Why do you get to decide that, say, it’s absolutely wrong for a Christian to worship the devil? Or that a Christian could not say women are unworthy to enter heaven?

See, Xavier, you promote a supreme hypocrisy in first proclaiming, “it doesn’t really matter what anyone believes as long as we follow Christ” yet also say, “you cannot follow Christ and believe __________”

]

I’m still trying to figure out who introduced the notion that women are unworthy to enter Heave; I mean God created them, why wouldn’t He give them the same opportunity to be saved and enter into glory? And whether we admit it or not, every denomination, sect, cult, or religious group, church, whatever, waxes Pharisaiacal(act like Pharisees) from time to time! Not a pretty picture! I think perhaps you, prmerger either misunderstood what xavierlives was trying to say, or he did not express himself clearly. I think he may have meant, that whether you believe what the cc teaches or what noncatholics teach, as long as you are following Christ and HIS teachings, we are all of the same ilk; Christians!

 

[PRmerger]

Well my problems with certain theology, I imagine is the same problem that others have. I take issue with the polytheism of Mormonism.

Exactly.

And you ought not object to others (in particular, Catholics) who take issue with _________ .

You do it.

It would be hypocritical to say that others shouldn’t.

We just draw the line differently than you do.

Thus, it certainly IS a big deal if someone proclaims that, say, the pope is the vicar of Christ while another claims he’s the anti-christ.

 

[1beleevr]

Exactly.

And you ought not object to others (in particular, Catholics) who take issue with _________ .

You do it.

It would be hypocritical to say that others shouldn’t.

We just draw the line differently than you do.

Thus, it certainly IS a big deal if someone proclaims that, say, the pope is the vicar of Christ while another claims he’s the anti-christ.

]

Never have believed that the pope is either the vicar of Christ, or the anti-Christ! Although the anti-Christ will be someone who is as well versed in the Word as anyone else, we know that his ultimate goal is the separation of man and God!

 

[PRmerger]

]I think he may have meant, that whether you believe what the cc teaches or what noncatholics teach, as long as you are following Christ and HIS teachings, we are all of the same ilk; Christians!

I understand that.

However, someone may claim that he’s following Christ and believe something quite abhorrent (you can fill in the blank with whatever belief you find objectionable). If you subscribe to the above paradigm, then you have no way to argue against this person’s belief. He can simply say he’s following Christ.

However, we Catholics claim that there is a Truth–an absolute Truth–that is knowable and has been revealed to us and is guarded and interpreted by the Magisterium.

You, however, cannot claim that this Christian who proclaims something anti-thetical to your own interpretation is proclaiming a lie. It’s just another Christian opinion, in your paradigm.

 

[Xavierlives]

Exactly.

And you ought not object to others (in particular, Catholics) who take issue with _________ .

You do it.

It would be hypocritical to say that others shouldn’t.

We just draw the line differently than you do.

Thus, it certainly IS a big deal if someone proclaims that, say, the pope is the vicar of Christ while another claims he’s the anti-christ.

Maybe I am getting tired. I am sitting here, going… err… huh?

 

[1beleevr]

Better schooled, possibly, yet fallible as well, yes?

Fallible, by definition, means he’s going to be wrong. Guaranteed. [SIGN1]Going to be Wrong.[/SIGN1]

I, for one, will not rest my eternal salvation in the beliefs of a man who is guaranteed to be in error at some point in his teaching.:bigyikes:

]

My eternal salvation rests in Him who has purchased me with His precious blood; not in ANY fallible man

 

[PRmerger]

Maybe I am getting tired. I am sitting here, going… err… huh?

I am sorry you could not understand. Perhaps if you asked a question I could determine where I need to explain.

All I’m saying is that you draw the line as to what’s objectionable somewhere.

So do we.

 

[1beleevr]

I understand that.

However, someone may claim that he’s following Christ and believe something quite abhorrent (you can fill in the blank with whatever belief you find objectionable). If you subscribe to the above paradigm, then you have no way to argue against this person’s belief. He can simply say he’s following Christ.

However, we Catholics claim that there is a Truth–an absolute Truth–that is knowable and has been revealed to us and is guarded and interpreted by the Magisterium.

You, however, cannot claim that this Christian who proclaims something anti-thetical to your own interpretation is proclaiming a lie. It’s just another Christian opinion, in your paradigm.

]

Just as light and darkness cannot coexist, love and hate can’t and following Christ while believing in something abhorrent, cannot theoretically happen Take for example 1John 4:20:" For if you say you love God, but hate your brother, you are a liar." Can every Christian truly say that they love ALL their brothers and sisters(fellow humans& Christians)? The second greatest Commandment is to love one another, as you love yourself. So, as difficult as it is to love that guy on your street, who plays his music too loud, you must try, according to Jesus! And I do not have a paradigm; I’m just a non-catholic, that’s all:thumbsup:

 

[Xavierlives]

Exactly.

And you ought not object to others (in particular, Catholics) who take issue with _________ .

You do it.

It would be hypocritical to say that others shouldn’t.

We just draw the line differently than you do.

Thus, it certainly IS a big deal if someone proclaims that, say, the pope is the vicar of Christ while another claims he’s the anti-christ.

I am going to try it this way and then go to bed.

I don’t object to other religions. I don’t object to other denominations. Anyone can worship how they want and when they want. I simply feel that many of us recognize God’s plan in the Bible. You might feel that once I am saved, I am always saved. That does not changes God’s plan. That is something that will be answered when we get to heaven.

Now polytheism is a problem because this changes the gospel message. Just as if I said I had to swim naked in a vat of crocodile tears to be saved. There is nothing hypocritical in saying it is false because the word of God is truth.

Ok… I am dozing off. maybe I’ll pick up here tomorrow.