How do non-denominational Christians pick a church?

[1beleevr]

He was praising God in song and dance.

]

Along with worshipping his God!

 

[jmcrae]

]

Along with worshipping his God!

Separately, yes, he did - he often offered sacrifices at the Temple, as well as singing and dancing for the Lord. Singing and dancing was not the only relationship he had with God.

 

[Xavierlives]

For some reason this statement bothers me cause it comes off as saying even though one is in heaven they still aren’t worthy.

God loves you :doesn’t that make you worth something in His eyes.

I can’t speak for the writer, but I can empathize. I understood it to mean there is a general feeling closer to that feeling that the Prodigal son might have felt. I don’t care if I am feeding the pigs for my Father, at least I know I’ll be living under his roof.

I could be wrong.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Everything you say and profess here is admirable and worthy, MRL.

However, I’m not sure that my point is being understood.

You are saying this:
I am saying this:[SIGN1] no where in Scripture does it state what these “essential” beliefs are. They are a man-made tradition. [/SIGN1]

Is there a specific list that states them all in one place in scripture? No, however they are repeated in several places. Peter on the day of Pentecost, Philip to the Eunick, Paul on Mars Hill. Have people pointed them out to each other over the last 2000 years? Sure, But If you were to read the Bible without anyone to point them out you would find them or at least the ones I believe in. thats not to say that Im not left with some questions that Im not sure the Bible answers.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

For some reason this statement bothers me cause it comes off as saying even though one is in heaven they still aren’t worthy.

God loves you :doesn’t that make you worth something in His eyes.

I wont be in heaven because if my own righteousness.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

]

I understand what myredeemer means, but he may have said that he doesn’t deserve the blessings that Christ has bestowed upon him, both in this life and the next(none of us do, but thanks to grace the Lord has promised us eternal life). And he was talking about himself, not anyone already in Heaven!

BINGO:thumbsup:

 

[PRmerger]

Is there a specific list that states them all in one place in scripture? No, however they are repeated in several places. Peter on the day of Pentecost, Philip to the Eunick, Paul on Mars Hill. Have people pointed them out to each other over the last 2000 years? Sure, But If you were to read the Bible without anyone to point them out you would find them or at least the ones I believe in. thats not to say that Im not left with some questions that Im not sure the Bible answers.

What are these essentials, then, and how do you know?

 

[PRmerger]

What are these essentials, then, and how do you know?

Here’s what I learned from another Protestant in another thread just a few months ago about what’s considered “essential” by Protestants.

1. Jesus is both God and man (John 1:1,14; 8:24; Col. 2:9; 1 John 4:1-4).
2. Jesus rose from the dead physically (John 2:19-21; 1 Cor. 15:14).
3. Salvation is by grace through faith (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8-9; Gal. 3:1-2; 5:1-4).
4. The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus according to the scriptures (1 Cor. 15:1-4; Gal. 1:8-9).
5. There is only one God (Exodus 20:3; Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8)
6. God exists as a Trinity of persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. (1 John 5:7)
7. Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary (nature of incarnation)
8. Jesus is the only way to God the Father (John 14:6)."

But, wait!! Here’s another *completely different *list of essentials!

Those essentials were written by Matt Slick of CARM, the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry. The CARM web site states that CARM exists to defend the Christian faith by analyzing religions such as Islam, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormonism, Roman Catholicism, Universalism, Wicca, etc., and comparing them to the Bible. They give (at least) these scriptural references. Certainly these essentials are lacking per Catholic dogma.

Primary Essentials:

Diety of Christ – John 8:24, John 8:58 + Exodus 3:14.
Salvation by Grace – Gal 5:4, Eph 2:8-9
Resurrection of Christ – 1 Cor 15:14, 1 Cor 15:17
Gospel – Gal 1:8-9, 1 Cor 15:1-4
Monotheism – Exodus 20:3, Isaiah 43:10, 44:6,8, Exodus 20:3-6

Secondary Essentials:

Salvation – John 14:6
Trinity – John 3:16, John 5:26, 1 John 4:10, John 14:26, 15:26, Isaiah 44:24, Gal 3:13, Rom 15:16
Incarnation through Virgin Birth – Matt 1:23, John 8:24

It seems clear to me that non-Catholic Christians cannot come to an agreement about what’s an “essential” doctrine, because [SIGN1]Scripture does not state that there are essential doctrines.[/SIGN1] That’s a man-made tradition.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

What are these essentials, then, and how do you know?

Oh your going to make me do the list!?!

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, God’s only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended into hell.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

One thing I question is, is the belief in the Deity of our Lord essential for salvation. Perhaps that would make a good thread.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Here’s what I learned from another Protestant in another thread just a few months ago about what’s considered “essential” by Protestants.

1. Jesus is both God and man (John 1:1,14; 8:24; Col. 2:9; 1 John 4:1-4).
2. Jesus rose from the dead physically (John 2:19-21; 1 Cor. 15:14).
3. Salvation is by grace through faith (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8-9; Gal. 3:1-2; 5:1-4).
4. The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus according to the scriptures (1 Cor. 15:1-4; Gal. 1:8-9).
5. There is only one God (Exodus 20:3; Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8)
6. God exists as a Trinity of persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. (1 John 5:7)
7. Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary (nature of incarnation)
8. Jesus is the only way to God the Father (John 14:6)."

But, wait!! Here’s another *completely different *list of essentials!

Those essentials were written by Matt Slick of CARM, the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry. The CARM web site states that CARM exists to defend the Christian faith by analyzing religions such as Islam, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormonism, Roman Catholicism, Universalism, Wicca, etc., and comparing them to the Bible. They give (at least) these scriptural references. Certainly these essentials are lacking per Catholic dogma.

Primary Essentials:

Diety of Christ – John 8:24, John 8:58 + Exodus 3:14.
Salvation by Grace – Gal 5:4, Eph 2:8-9
Resurrection of Christ – 1 Cor 15:14, 1 Cor 15:17
Gospel – Gal 1:8-9, 1 Cor 15:1-4
Monotheism – Exodus 20:3, Isaiah 43:10, 44:6,8, Exodus 20:3-6

Secondary Essentials:

Salvation – John 14:6
Trinity – John 3:16, John 5:26, 1 John 4:10, John 14:26, 15:26, Isaiah 44:24, Gal 3:13, Rom 15:16
Incarnation through Virgin Birth – Matt 1:23, John 8:24

It seems clear to me that non-Catholic Christians cannot come to an agreement about what’s an “essential” doctrine, because [SIGN1]Scripture does not state that there are essential doctrines.[/SIGN1] That’s a man-made tradition.

thats it youve gotten through to me I EMBRACE TRADITION! as long as it can be supported with and doesnt contradict scripture.

 

[PRmerger]

Oh your going to make me do the list!?!

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, God’s only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended into hell.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

These are, indeed, essentials.

The question is: who told you these are the essentials? Certainly not Scripture!

 

[PRmerger]

thats it youve gotten through to me I EMBRACE TRADITION! as long as it can be supported with and doesnt contradict scripture.

:extrahappy::extrahappy:

The Tradition of the canon of Scripture cannot be supported by Scripture though, MRL. So do you still accept that the Gospel of Mark is inspired but the Gospel of Thomas is not? For that was determined by Tradition, but cannot be supported by the Scriptures.

 

[Xavierlives]

Oh your going to make me do the list!?!

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, God’s only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended into hell.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

One thing I question is, is the belief in the Deity of our Lord essential for salvation. Perhaps that would make a good thread.

These are, indeed, essentials.

The question is: who told you these are the essentials? Certainly not Scripture!

WHAT? Everything green is in the Bible, Everything Yellow is based on Bible, but interpreted, everything red is not in the Bible.

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, God’s only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended into hell.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

 

[jmcrae]

Is there a specific list that states them all in one place in scripture? No, however they are repeated in several places. Peter on the day of Pentecost, Philip to the Eunick, Paul on Mars Hill. Have people pointed them out to each other over the last 2000 years? Sure, But If you were to read the Bible without anyone to point them out you would find them or at least the ones I believe in. thats not to say that Im not left with some questions that Im not sure the Bible answers.

Do you not believe that every word of the Bible comes from God, and is of equal importance? Or are you of the opinion that some words in the Bible are “more relevant” to salvation than others, and that you have to believe those few verses, but the rest are not required for belief?

 

[PRmerger]

WHAT? Everything green is in the Bible, Everything Yellow is based on Bible, but interpreted, everything red is not in the Bible.

My question was how do you know that these doctrines are essential, and the others are secondary?

Does the Bible tell you this? How do you know that Malachi 1:11 is not an essential but John 3:16 is?

The only way you know that the doctrines proclaimed in the Creed are essential is because an outside entity–not the Bible–told you so!

 

[jmcrae]

WHAT? Everything green is in the Bible, Everything Yellow is based on Bible, but interpreted, everything red is not in the Bible.

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, God’s only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended into hell.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

Everything in the Bible is in the Bible, and yet you have picked out only 12 important statements, 2 of which are not even found in the Bible. What tells you that these statements are the most important, but that the rest of the Bible is less important?

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

:extrahappy::extrahappy:

The Tradition of the canon of Scripture cannot be supported by Scripture though, MRL. So do you still accept that the Gospel of Mark is inspired but the Gospel of Thomas is not? For that was determined by Tradition, but cannot be supported by the Scriptures.

I do the fact that it had been so widly used and excepted by the early church does give me confidence in it. Is this where you offer me some other beliefs that fit that same description?

 

[PRmerger]

I do the fact that it had been so widly used and excepted by the early church does give me confidence in it. Is this where you offer me some other beliefs that fit that same description?

Indeed it is!

Here are some things that you might possibly believe that are not part of Sacred Scripture:

-public revelation ended with the death of the last apostle
-there will be no new apostles
-the canon of Scripture is closed
-the Trinity
-the hypostatic union (that is, that Jesus had 2 natures and two wills: divine and human)
-Scripture interprets itself

Now, back to your statement above: why do you believe that because something has been so widely used and accepted that it’s ok? Do you believe that it’s possible that this acceptance could be wrong? That is, if these were fallible men that determined the canon of Scripture, how do you know that the Gospel of Thomas is not truly inspired?

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Do you not believe that every word of the Bible comes from God, and is of equal importance? Or are you of the opinion that some words in the Bible are “more relevant” to salvation than others, and that you have to believe those few verses, but the rest are not required for belief?

I believe it all comes from God, but I don’t believe it is all of equal importance for salvation.

 

[PRmerger]

I believe it all comes from God, but I don’t believe it is all of equal importance for salvation.

And what tells you what’s the most important and the least important?