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MyRdmrLvs
Guest
Actually I would widle down the list a little. I beleive in each of these, but I dont know that I would consider them all to be essential for salvation.
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MyRdmrLvs
Guest
If anyone was trying to make a compelling case for why it was left out I would hear them out. To my knowledge no one has.
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PRmerger
Guest
I don’t understand. Really.
Where is it that you’re finding what you "would consider to be an essential’.
If there’s no list in Scripture, then [SIGN1]it’s a man-made tradition [/SIGN1]that you’re using to determine what’s an essential.
So if I say I believe Malachi 1:11 is essential to salvation, and you say it isn’t…and there’s no where in Scripture to tell us who’s right, then what?
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PRmerger
Guest
The compelling case is this:
God’s Word is not confined to the Sacred Scriptures. The entire Deposit of Faith is illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition, and the Church’s Magisterium.
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MyRdmrLvs
Guest
the things that are repeated and that are stated to be necessary for salvation… When Ruth and Boaz were on the threshing floor what happened? is understanding this passage necessary for salvation. Is it not more important to understand why Christ died on the cross ?
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MyRdmrLvs
Guest
He endured being human, subjected to insults and humiliation,He was willing to die a horrible death. He went through all that and didnt include in the Bible what was necessary to make it effectual for my salvation? I believe it will be reasonably self evident if it will be the difference between heaven or hell for thousands of people who wish to serve Him.
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PRmerger
Guest
So then these verses below are what you consider essential beliefs, essential things that are necessary for our salvation?
We are saved…
By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)
By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)
By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)
By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)
By declaring with our mouths (Lk 12:8; Rom 10:9)
By coming to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)
By works (Rom 2:6-7; James 2:24)
By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)
By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)
By his righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)
By his Cross (Eph 2:16; Col 2:14)
By eating his flesh (John 6)
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PRmerger
Guest
I don’t understand what you’re saying here MRL.
As Catholics we believe that there are essentials–the CC has determined what these are.
You, however, as a non-Catholic, must rely on Scripture to tell you these things.
And my point is: Scripture does not tell you what’s an essential doctrine.
You must rely on some other authority to tell you what’s essential.
What authority is that? Your own authority?
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Xavierlives
Guest
What? It all has relevance.
Let me illustrate with a little story.
Bob is standing at the corner of main and state street with a group of people. Suddenly two bank robbers burst out of the corner bank. Bob is startled and spills his coffee on Bruno, a great dane. Bruno is rather beastly so his master,Fran, wraps the leash several times around her wrist. When the extremely hot coffee hits Bruno, he shoots out into the street dragging Fran behind. A car being driven by Fred swerves to miss Fran, but unfortately mows down Bruno. 15 seconds before this, Bruno had tried to pee on Bob’s leg, and Bob chastised Fran. Fran, had turned to look at Bob and saw the robbers heading with guns drawn, but could not speak. When the robbers burst out the door, they immediately head into the street pushing several people out of the way. One is Elsie, a little old lady out for her daily constitutional. Elsie falls into the gutter and breaks her hip and will eventually die from her injuries. One of the bank robbers, for a moments time, stops to aid Elsie. Being an old codger, Elsie slaps the robber so hard, it knocks free his Dead President mask just enough to show a birth mark on his chin that remarkedly resembled the State of Texas. This is well known birth mark of the Mayor. The robbers jump into the car driven by Fred and drive off. All of this is captured on the corner street camera, designed to catch red light runners, which actually also caught Jessica running a red light as she watched it all happen.
When the tape is shown, is the fact that Bob appeared to tilting his cup on Bruno relevant to Elsie? No. Is it relevant to Fran? Yes. Is the fact that Fred attempted to miss hitting Fran relevant to Elsie? No. Is it to Fran? Yes. Is the fact that the State of Texas can be seen on the video relevant to everyone? Yes.
The whole point to this little exercise is, not everything will be relevant to everyone. Somethings will be relevant to all. But the tape can be used for a variety of ways to assist a variety of people for a variety of needs. The scripture is like this.
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jmcrae
Guest
Actually, that passage is very important to our salvation, since without Ruth and Boaz, David could never have been born, and without David, Jesus would not have had any ancestry, either, and could not have come to us as a human being to save us from our sins.
Now, it’s not a “deep” passage with a lot of philosophical overtones, unlike, say, the first chapter of the Gospel of John - but the event that took place there is important to our salvation - if it had not occurred, then the chain of events that led to the birth of Christ would not have occurred - which is why it is contained in the Scriptures.
If Ruth and Boaz had not encountered one another on the threshing-floor, Jesse would never have been conceived and born, his youngest son David would never have been sent to his older brothers when they fought the Philistines, he never would have said, “Who is this Philistine, who dares defy the armies of the living God?” - Goliath would have defeated Israel, and that would have been the end of the story, right there - no Israel, no Jesus, no Cross, and no redemption.
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PRmerger
Guest
That was an interesting
whacky story. And I appreciate the time it took to type it, but you really needn’t.My question was not about relevance, XL.
Again, my question is: how do you know what verses in Scripture are essential and what are secondary? Scripture does not tell us, does it?
Those of us who submit to an authority that’s extra-biblical, that is, the CC, can claim to know clearly what are essentials.
However, those who claim that the Bible is their authority are at a loss!
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Xavierlives
Guest
Well, maybe I mistagged the post, but there was some relevance discussion going on… I think :manvspc:That was an interesting
My question was not about relevance, XL.
Again, my question is: how do you know what verses in Scripture are essential and what are secondary? Scripture does not tell us, does it?
Those of us who submit to an authority that’s extra-biblical, that is, the CC, can claim to know clearly what are essentials.
However, those who claim that the Bible is their authority are at a loss!
whew… here it is
:extrahappy:Do you not believe that every word of the Bible comes from God, and is of equal importance? Or are you of the opinion that some words in the Bible are “more relevant” to salvation than others, and that you have to believe those few verses, but the rest are not required for belief?
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1beleevr
Guest
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SonofMonica
Guest
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jmcrae
Guest
Believing that some are more relevant than others (even if they are, although to my mind, how would they get into the Bible if they were non-essential?) doesn’t give you an infallible list of which verses are relevant, and which ones are not. It’s still a man-made list, right?
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1beleevr
Guest
{
I don’t believe that we are saved by works; but I believe that He saved us to do works that He had planned for US!
]
I don’t believe that we are saved by works; but I believe that He saved us to do works that He had planned for US!
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jmcrae
Guest
There were dozens of Gospels. Only four of them turned out to be authentic, though.
Keep in mind, Jesus was famous, in His time. Hundreds of books were written about Him, and attributed to the Apostles and to members of the early Christian church. Some were authentic, but most of them were not. The job of the Councils, in the late 4th century, was to discern the authentic books from those that were not, and also to discern, of the authentic books, which ones were suitable to be read out at Mass, and which were more suited to scholarship.
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SonofMonica
Guest
And most importantly, the standard that the bishops of those councils judged the authenticity of the books against was the Tradition of the Catholic Church. If you do not believe in the authenticity of the Catholic faith, there is no reason to believe the authenticity of the Bible, period.
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jmcrae
Guest
Right, exactly. They were living in the 390’s AD - it’s not like they could just walk up to St. Thomas and ask, “Hey, did you actually write this, or is it a forgery?” They knew it was a forgery because it depicts things happening that don’t fit with what we know from the Holy Tradition.
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Xavierlives
Guest
Well I guess that depends on what you are trying to prove. Satan tried to prove angels would catch Jesus if he threw himself from the temple, using Psalm 91.Believing that some are more relevant than others (even if they are, although to my mind, how would they get into the Bible if they were non-essential?) doesn’t give you an infallible list of which verses are relevant, and which ones are not. It’s still a man-made list, right?
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