How do other religions view Jesus?

[Servant19]

The Church is wrong in its assumption that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

Although Muslims believe they worship the same creator god, its message, teachings, role models example to humanity,etc are diametrically opposed to the Bible God commands, and message to humanity.

So the Church CANNOT be guided by the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit does not make “wrong assumptions”

I would think deeply about your faith dear friend

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[otterman]

So the Church CANNOT be guided by the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit does not make “wrong assumptions”

I would think deeply about your faith dear friend

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My faith is intact thank you, but I cannot agree with falsehood when it is presented as factual.

 

[Servant19]

My faith is intact thank you, but I cannot agree with falsehood when it is presented as factual.

But you profess to be of the Catholic Faith and deny its teachings?

One cannot be a “pick and choose” what I like kinda Catholic, or is this the End Times?

Lord Almighty, it truly is the End Times…

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[otterman]

But you profess to be of the Catholic Faith and deny its teachings?

One cannot be a “pick and choose” what I like kinda Catholic, or is this the End Times?

Lord Almighty, it truly is the End Times…

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But I can “pick and choose” when falsehood is presented as fact.

 

[Servant19]

But I can “pick and choose” when falsehood is presented as fact.

So when you write “Catholic” as your religion on CAF, it is a falsehood yes?

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[otterman]

So when you write “Catholic” as your religion on CAF, it is a falsehood yes?

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No, incorrect.

I hold to the Catholic faith, in doing so I am obliged not to lie, which is precisely why I take the position I do.

I cannot be true to my faith if I agree I worship the Islamic god Allah, because I don’t,as

further investigation,and Christian and Islamic teachings prove this conclusively.

 

[Servant19]

No, incorrect.

I hold to the Catholic faith, in doing so I am obliged not to lie, which is precisely why I take the position I do.

I cannot be true to my faith if I agree I worship the Islamic god Allah, because I don’t,as

further investigation,and Christian and Islamic teachings prove this conclusively.

If I may humbly submit for your kind reflection dear friend.

If guidance from my religion submits a teaching that does not correlate with my beliefs and my thoughts and reflections/meditations, I would move heaven and earth to educate myself on the subject matter in order that my beliefs may coincide with the guidance of the religion I profess.

When guidance is given and one discounts it, it puts into jeopardy the entire infallibility of your belief system.

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[TypesAndShadows]

So you’re saying that when you say you know God, it actually is a knowledge of the Divine aspect of Jesus???

What do you know about the Word, that Muslims do not know?

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Yes.

Was this unclear? Did you not realise that this is a core Christian belief?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh and lived among us. We saw his glory, the glory which he received as the Father’s only Son.

When Phillip asks to be shown the Father, Jesus asks him “do you still not know me?”. He isn’t asking Phillip if he understands how God can have whatever attributes, he is asking if Phillip recognises him for who he is. He is asking if Phillip still does not recognise that Jesus is God, and that he thus knows God if he knows Jesus. This is core Christian belief. It is not a Muslim belief, or a Bahai’i belief is it? As I understand it, you view Jesus as an avatar of God in the same model as Krishna: is that accurate? This is why you are talking about the “divine aspect” of Jesus, which isn’t really how Christians understand who Jesus was or how God is.

This is all core Christian belief, which Muslims do not believe. Whether or not they know about this Christian teaching, they do not believe it.

It is not about “knowing about”: it is about knowing someone. If I know you, this is not the same thing as knowing about you. Are you familiar with this distinction?

 

[TypesAndShadows]

But you profess to be of the Catholic Faith and deny its teachings?

One cannot be a “pick and choose” what I like kinda Catholic, or is this the End Times?

Lord Almighty, it truly is the End Times…

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Oh, also, while I am not the boss of anyone, I would like to gently suggest that there are entire threads devoted to hashing out the question of the Church’s teaching on whether Muslims and Christians worship the same God, and whether a Catholic can disagree with this and remain in good standing. And while this is a fascinating topic, and I personally think the view that it is possible for there to be some other God which Muslims worship betrays a misunderstanding of what we mean by ‘God’ rather than ‘a god’, it really is a sidetrack in a thread about how different religions view Jesus. It’s such a huge topic, and always leads to such long arguments and raised emotions, that it is unlikely to be done justice outside its own threads.

 

[Servant19]

Yes.

Was this unclear? Did you not realise that this is a core Christian belief?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh and lived among us. We saw his glory, the glory which he received as the Father’s only Son.

When Phillip asks to be shown the Father, Jesus asks him “do you still not know me?”. He isn’t asking Phillip if he understands how God can have whatever attributes, he is asking if Phillip recognises him for who he is. He is asking if Phillip still does not recognise that Jesus is God, and that he thus knows God if he knows Jesus. This is core Christian belief. It is not a Muslim belief, or a Bahai’i belief is it? As I understand it, you view Jesus as an avatar of God in the same model as Krishna: is that accurate? This is why you are talking about the “divine aspect” of Jesus, which isn’t really how Christians understand who Jesus was or how God is.

This is all core Christian belief, which Muslims do not believe. Whether or not they know about this Christian teaching, they do not believe it.

It is not about “knowing about”: it is about knowing someone. If I know you, this is not the same thing as knowing about you. Are you familiar with this distinction?

And so I will ask you again dear friend, without telling me about the attributes of Jesus’ Divinity, tell me about the essence of Jesus’ Divinity.

Can you please answer this question?

Thankyou

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[Servant19]

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In light of what you posted here:

This is why you are talking about the “divine aspect” of Jesus, which isn’t really how Christians understand who Jesus was or how God is.

How do you respond to the question that God cannot have a greater Being, yet Jesus said “the Father is greater than I”?

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[Servant19]

Oh, also, while I am not the boss of anyone, I would like to gently suggest that there are entire threads devoted to hashing out the question of the Church’s teaching on whether Muslims and Christians worship the same God, and whether a Catholic can disagree with this and remain in good standing. And while this is a fascinating topic, and I personally think the view that it is possible for there to be some other God which Muslims worship betrays a misunderstanding of what we mean by ‘God’ rather than ‘a god’, it really is a sidetrack in a thread about how different religions view Jesus. It’s such a huge topic, and always leads to such long arguments and raised emotions, that it is unlikely to be done justice outside its own threads.

Fair enough

I’ll let it go…I guess Islamophobia is alive and well in Catholicism…

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[TypesAndShadows]

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In light of what you posted here:

How do you respond to the question that God cannot have a greater Being, yet Jesus said “the Father is greater than I”?

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Sure. Since I’m not sure what you’re actually asking in your previous question (I assume you are still clear that knowing someone is not the same as knowing about them, yes? That these are fundamentally different things? ), I will address this one.

The answer is the Trinity. How much detail do you want about the Trinity?

Many people also answer that passage with the observation that the Son “emptied himself out” to become a servant when he became Man, and so in that sense he could also have been said to be lesser than the Father at the point in time when he spoke.

That passage, and the surrounding context (which I directed you to earlier in this thread, John 14) comes up very often in discussions of the Trinity and the divinity of Christ. See, for example, this article explaining the typical Catholic position: catholic.com/magazine/articles/jesus-is-god.

Does that address your question?

If you would like me to attempt your previous question, I think you will need to be clearer what you are asking. Is it simply that you would like to know the Catholic teaching on the nature of Christ, and on the Trinity?

And finally: am I, in fact, correct in assuming that you approach the divinity of Jesus as being essentially like the usual Hindu teaching on the divinity of Krishna?

 

[TypesAndShadows]

Fair enough

I’ll let it go…I guess Islamophobia is alive and well in Catholicism…

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If you’re really interested in watching these sorts of discussions, you’ll see Otterman currently duking it out in another thread in this forum, where their conversation partners are primarily Catholic. I prefer friendly conversation where we learn about each other’s beliefs, myself.

 

[Servant19]

Sure. Since I’m not sure what you’re actually asking in your previous question (I assume you are still clear that knowing someone is not the same as knowing about them, yes?

I guess I’m not so sure where you are coming from with this “knowing of” versus “knowing” someone.

The way I see it, I “know of” you as a person. But I do not “know” you.

However, it must be stressed that I do not really even “know” my wife. There is not a day that goes by where I do not get a pleasant surprise to learn about her

So, you claim to “know” your wife or mother, or sibling?

If you do, I think this is where we disagree.

Knowledge is a “process”, a gradual raising of our consciousness. I “gradually” know my wife better and better with each passing day.

God is infinite, so my “process” of “knowing” Him is eternal and will never reach full maturity.

This is the logic behind the unknowability of God.

Does that seem logical and reasonable

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[Servant19]

And finally: am I, in fact, correct in assuming that you approach the divinity of Jesus as being essentially like the usual Hindu teaching on the divinity of Krishna?

The concept of the avatar in Hinduism and the Manifestation of God in the Baha’i Faith is no different to the Word becoming flesh in Christianity.

Different words, different ages, different contexts, but the same basic principle.
You can ask any comparative religion scholar and theologian and they will tell you the same…

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[TypesAndShadows]

I guess I’m not so sure where you are coming from with this “knowing of” versus “knowing” someone.

The way I see it, I “know of” you as a person. But I do not “know” you.

However, it must be stressed that I do not really even “know” my wife. There is not a day that goes by where I do not get a pleasant surprise to learn about her

So, you claim to “know” your wife or mother, or sibling?

If you do, I think this is where we disagree.

Knowledge is a “process”, a gradual raising of our consciousness. I “gradually” know my wife better and better with each passing day.

God is infinite, so my “process” of “knowing” Him is eternal and will never reach full maturity.

This is the logic behind the unknowability of God.

Does that seem logical and reasonable

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Sure. I think you are using “knowing” here to mean what I would mean by “understanding”, and I think we have clearly established that that is not what I mean. I know God, and I know my friends and family, but if you asked me to describe their essences I confess I would be confused.

I know some things about my mother, for example, and I have some understanding both of her thought processes and of her physical functioning as a human. But that is not what I really mean when I say I know her. What do you say when someone asks you, “Do you know [so and so]?” Do you say, “One can never really know anyone.”?

I assume you’ll be addressing my other points and questions in another post.

 

[Dave_B]

I cannot be true to my faith if I agree I worship the Islamic god Allah, because I don’t,as further investigation,and Christian and Islamic teachings prove this conclusively.

Allah is simply the Arab name for God. Muslims, Christians and Jews worship the same God. The Christian position is that only Christians have a full understanding of God’s nature and revelation.

Read this for further info…
catholic.com/quickquestions/how-can-allah-be-the-one-true-god

 

[TypesAndShadows]

The concept of the avatar in Hinduism and the Manifestation of God in the Baha’i Faith is no different to the Word becoming flesh in Christianity.

Different words, different ages, different contexts, but the same basic principle.
You can ask any comparative religion scholar and theologian and they will tell you the same…

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Here I am afraid we need to make a distinction between what your faith (Bahai’i) teaches about the form of Christianity it has absorbed, and what Catholics and Orthodox and traditional Christianity in general teaches about the Incarnation.

We have already established in this conversation that assuming Catholics believe the Incarnation works in the way that you believe it works leads you to assume that knowing Jesus involves only knowing his humanity, which is not what Catholics believe. Certainly there are similarities, but we wouldn’t be having this conversation if there weren’t differences.

 

[otterman]

Fair enough

I’ll let it go…I guess Islamophobia is alive and well in Catholicism…

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Using “Islamaphobia” as an excuse for denigrating Catholicism just shows what ignorance can do.

Independent research on this subject provides all information necessary to show why I and many others, take the view we do.