How do Pentecostals and Catholics differ?

[guanophore]

Bear in mind this is an explanation of classical Pentecostal theology. Other Pentecostals may or may not agree.

Classical Pentecostals believe there are several different uses of tongues. They are:

1. tongues as the evidence of baptism in the Holy Spirit and in individual praying,
2. tongues as a gift (in the stricter sense used here)

(Pentecostals who do not believe that tongues are the initial physical evidence of Spirit baptism will only include individual praying in the first category.)

The difference is not one of “essence” since in both situations one is speaking unknown languages as the Spirit gives utterance. The difference is one of purpose: one is to edify one’s own spirit and the other is for edifying the congregation.

Therefore, when Paul states that not everyone speaks in tongues, Pentecostals would limit that statement to the gift of tongues used for public instruction and congregational edification. Pentecostals believe all Christians have the potential to possess a prayer language for personal edification.

Take myself as an example. I am 21 years old. I was born again when I was 10 years old. I was baptized with the Holy Spirit when I was in the eighth grade. When this occurred, one of the immediate evidences and the only physical one was that I spoke in tongues. Since that time, I have been able to pray and worship God in an unknown language and make regular use of this wonderful blessing. However, I have never gave a message in tongues to anyone let alone an entire congregation. I wouldn’t even know how to explain such an experience to you because it has just never happened to me.

So I would say I have tongues for personal use in my life. Still, it is not building up anyone but myself, so strictly speaking, in my case it is not the gift of tongues because it is not benefiting the rest of the church.

Thanks very much! I am all cleared up now.

So, what brings you here to CAF?

 

[ltwin]

Thanks very much! I am all cleared up now.

So, what brings you here to CAF?

Just curious.

 

[ufamtobie]

I was raised Pentecostal and I start RCIA this September. I had many good friends in high school who were Catholic. Through the years I have thought about all the good examples and good Catholics I had in my life growing up. I started over the past few years really doing some soul searching-trying to get beyong the flakey-ness and falsehoods. Can anyone just give me advice on what to expect with RCIA and the main differences on the beliefs of Pentecostals and Catholics?

Thanks so much

graceandfaith

graceandfaith,

The Catholic Church and the Protestant church differs by 1500 years, I really don’t need to say more.

Jesus Christ meant you and all who are Protestant to be Catholic from the Start and I see that you are coming Home. Praise be Jesus Christ. Amen

Ufam Tobie

 

[jerry_joseph]

Pentecostals and Satan hates following things.

1.Eucharism.

1. Devotion to Mary.
2. Devotion to Holy Cross.
3. Hierarchy of Church.
4. Sacraments of Church.
5. Church buildings itself (which plays a key role in creating a christian atmosphere in a place)

I dont know ,those things which church teaches as a weapon and sheild against satan is hated by pentecostals also.

 

[AmateurPianist]

Pentecostals and Satan hates following things.

Well I am Pentecostal so let’s see if this is true for mke.

1.Eucharism.

Not sure what that is so I am taking this to be “a belief in the Real Presence”. Do not hate. In fact slightly lean towards believing in (separate issue).

1. Devotion to Mary.

Hmm. Do not hate this either. My own opinion is this is a good thing taken in too much of an extreme and therefore out of balance. But I am sure there are things in my own life and faith that while not bad are out of balance and proportion. So here we get into logs and specks.

1. Devotion to Holy Cross.

Not sure what this is either, but worst case is above.

1. Hierarchy of Church.

Not sure what this is, but my opinion is that how an organization chooses to organize themselves is their business only and none of my concern.

1. Sacraments of Church.

Huh…we may use a different word but do the same stuff

1. Church buildings itself (which plays a key role in creating a christian atmosphere in a place)

Huh…we have buildings too. Again, how an organization chooses to architect the facility in which it meets is totally their business and none of my concern.

 

[guanophore]

Well I am Pentecostal so let’s see if this is true for mke.

Not sure what that is so I am taking this to be “a belief in the Real Presence”. Do not hate. In fact slightly lean towards believing in (separate issue).

I was wondering what that was also. I have never heard of “Eucharism” before!

Hmm. Do not hate this either. My own opinion is this is a good thing taken in too much of an extreme and therefore out of balance. But I am sure there are things in my own life and faith that while not bad are out of balance and proportion. So here we get into logs and specks.

Not sure what this is either, but worst case is above.

There are some people who have taken certain devotions to extremes, but they are not the norm. Some modern bible churches do not have any place in their theology for suffering. I call them “name it claim it” or “prosperity” groups. They are not necessarily Pentecostal, but they don’t include picking up one’s cross and carrying it as part of the normal Christian life.

 Not sure what this is, but my *opinion* is that how an organization chooses to organize themselves is their business only and none of my concern.

I think this is one of the major differences between Pentecostals and Catholics. Catholics believe that Jesus founded One Church, that His Church is visible, and that it is hierarchical. We don’t believe that the Church “chose to organize itself”, but rather, than Jesus structured it according to His will, and we are not at liberty to make changes to that structure.

Huh..we may use a different word but do the same stuff

Huh…we have buildings too. Again, how an organization chooses to architect the facility in which it meets is totally their business and none of my concern.

This is another major difference. Catholics believe that Jesus gave His One Church seven sacraments, and that we are not at liberty to add or subtract from them. We also don’t believe that Pentecostal ecclesial communities “do the same stuff” that Catholics do with regard to the Sacramental life.

Catholics place value on the sacredness of physical objects, including the environment in which we worship. For us, joining with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection through the Eucharist means that we enter into His sacrificial death on the cross. For this, an altar is required, and considered sacred.

 

[AmateurPianist]

I was wondering what that was also. I have never heard of “Eucharism” before!

There are some people who have taken certain devotions to extremes, but they are not the norm. Some modern bible churches do not have any place in their theology for suffering. I call them “name it claim it” or “prosperity” groups. They are not necessarily Pentecostal, but they don’t include picking up one’s cross and carrying it as part of the normal Christian life.

I think this is one of the major differences between Pentecostals and Catholics. Catholics believe that Jesus founded One Church, that His Church is visible, and that it is hierarchical. We don’t believe that the Church “chose to organize itself”, but rather, than Jesus structured it according to His will, and we are not at liberty to make changes to that structure.

This is another major difference. Catholics believe that Jesus gave His One Church seven sacraments, and that we are not at liberty to add or subtract from them. We also don’t believe that Pentecostal ecclesial communities “do the same stuff” that Catholics do with regard to the Sacramental life.

Catholics place value on the sacredness of physical objects, including the environment in which we worship. For us, joining with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection through the Eucharist means that we enter into His sacrificial death on the cross. For this, an altar is required, and considered sacred.

Hi:
I understand the differences (although I am not sure what the poster meant in some of them and we might have different understandings as to what he meant).

My point is that I don’t “hate” Catholics because of them and the use of the word “hate” in that sense was false and slanderous.

 

[AmateurPianist]

I was raised Pentecostal and I start RCIA this September. I had many good friends in high school who were Catholic. Through the years I have thought about all the good examples and good Catholics I had in my life growing up. I started over the past few years really doing some soul searching-trying to get beyong the flakey-ness and falsehoods. Can anyone just give me advice on what to expect with RCIA and the main differences on the beliefs of Pentecostals and Catholics?

Thanks so much

graceandfaith

Anyway…I am giving this question some thought. I will let others talk about the differences. What I would like to talk about is why we are “less different” than perhaps other “Protestant” groups.

I would venture to guess that the Catholic Charismatic renewal was/is a significant unifying factor between us. This is because when we observe the gifts of the Holy Spirit being poured out in the Catholic church, we would first ask whether this is genuine. Now I suppose there are some groups that do not believe it is genuine, but all of the organizations that I have been associated with would accept the Catholic Charismatic renewal as a genuine movement of the Holy Spirit.

Assuming we do so, this has some rather important implications to us.
(1) Whatever the theological differences exist between us, they are not on a level to stop God from moving in the Catholic church. Put another way, while y’all might still be “wrong” on certain issues, you can not be “that wrong” (and who is to say that we are not “wrong” either).
(2) While we may not endorse certain Catholic practices, these also can not be wrong to stop God from moving in the Catholic church. Put another way, while we still may not be particular fans of praying to saints, the practice can not be that bad such that God can’t move in the Catholic church. So in other words it is not witchcraft and idolatry (as I have heard it said). And again who is to say that some of our practices are not “wrong” either.

As far as theology goes, here are some reasons why we may be relatively closer than other organizations.

(1) Historically Pentecostalism flows from the John Wesley stream of Protestant. As you may or may not be aware, John Wesley was not a Calvinist (or OSAS); and most Pentecostals are not either. Therefore our differences on theological issues like justification are shall I say quite nuanced.
(2) Because we do practice the gifts of the Holy Spirit we are not hard core Sola Scriptura like some other streams might be. We as a group probably are more Prima Scriptura (there is an article on Wikipedia which classifies us as Prima Scriptura). Which would mean that God can and does speak today through means other than Scripture, but in the end we use Scripture to test whether these means are actually from God (1 Thess. 5:21). This contrasts with fundamentalists who believe that the gifts of the Spirit died when Scripture was written (or maybe canonized) and that the only way in which God speaks today is through the Scripture.
(3) We are morally conservative. We do not support either gay marriage or abortion. In moral theology I would say we agree 95%. (and moral theology is a biggie to me…bigger than the stuff we might disagree on).

To summarize, I would put us in the camp of streams of Protestant that are relatively closer to the Catholics than others…with perhaps Lutherans, Anglicans, and Methodists. We are probably less sacramentally oriented than the before mentioned groups. But at the same time I would guess that we are more in agreement in moral theology than the before mentioned groups (while recognizing there are some branches of Methodist, Anglican, and Lutheran that are morally conservative).

 

[ltwin]

Pentecostals and Satan hates following things.

1.Eucharism.

1. Devotion to Mary.
2. Devotion to Holy Cross.
3. Hierarchy of Church.
4. Sacraments of Church.
5. Church buildings itself (which plays a key role in creating a christian atmosphere in a place)

I dont know ,those things which church teaches as a weapon and sheild against satan is hated by pentecostals also.

Wow. That is some strong language there. I never knew I hated so many things nor agreed with Satan on so many issues . . .

 

[gtrenewed]

Anyway…I am giving this question some thought. I will let others talk about the differences. What I would like to talk about is why we are “less different” than perhaps other “Protestant” groups.

From my experience there are two ASG types, old school holiness in mostly rural areas and urban ASG mega churches. Both are far different from the Catholic Church in form and in most theology. Just compare info here on CA and ASG statement of faith. I left the ASG and other charismatic/pentecostal churches to return to the CC because of what is lacking in their theology on baptism, communion, and salvation.

Also, as you said in your post, you, as an ASG member, were assuming the Catholic Church was not a valid Christian expression until you heard of the CCR; however, the Catholic Church is the valid expression of Christianity since the time of the Apostles and the protestants made up their expression following the reformation. If you read the early church fathers you’ll find the Mass and the Eucharist were the original Christian expression.

Agreement on Christian social issues is far from being unified. I don’t have the answer on Christian unity but I respect the Christians I have met outside of the CC.

 

[Discipulo]

From what I understand what I was told by my Priest their view of the Holy Trinity is kind of like God has different costumes, not distinct persons unified in one Divine Essence.

 

[guanophore]

Wow. That is some strong language there. I never knew I hated so many things nor agreed with Satan on so many issues . . .

I see your point, but can you respond to the content apart from the “strong language”. Would you characterize all these areas as pretty standard points of disagreement?

 

[AmateurPianist]

Also, as you said in your post, you, as an ASG member, were assuming the Catholic Church was not a valid Christian expression until you heard of the CCR;

No actually I did not say this. If you understood this from what I have said, then I have been misunderstood. Perhaps I can word things more clearly.

 

[ltwin]

From what I understand what I was told by my Priest their view of the Holy Trinity is kind of like God has different costumes, not distinct persons unified in one Divine Essence.

You need to understand that the overwhelming majority of Pentecostals are Trinitarian. We believe in the Godhead exactly as Catholics do.

Your priest was referring to Oneness Pentecostalism, which adheres to modalism. These are a minority of Pentecostals.

 

[ltwin]

I see your point, but can you respond to the content apart from the “strong language”. Would you characterize all these areas as pretty standard points of disagreement?

1.Eucharism.

Not exactly sure what this means? I’m guessing it refers to the Real Presence in the Eucharist. Pentecostals believe that Christ is spiritually present during Communion. So yes, Pentecostals and Catholics disagree here.

1. Devotion to Mary.

This is also where Pentecostals and Catholics disagree. We are uncomfortable with devotion to anyone but God.

1. Devotion to Holy Cross.

Not exactly sure what the poster is implying here. Pentecostalism is a Christocentric and crucicentric (did I make that term up???) religion. The Cross is the very center of our faith. Some posters commented on prosperity gospels and word of faith teachings. While it is true that Pentecostals and charismatics do seem to be drawn to these theologies, one should not that not all Pentecostals adhere to them. Many vehemently reject and condemn them. Pentecostalism does emphasize taking up one’s cross, and living for God no matter how much one suffers.

1. Hierarchy of Church.

We don’t hate hierarchy. We just don’t like when it gets in God’s way.

1. Sacraments of Church.

While Pentecostalism does not possess a sacramental theology, we do believe in and observe the ordinances of water baptism and the Lord’s Supper. These can in a sense be understood as a means of grace (as can other things) but whatever spiritual benefits one receives are not automatic. They must be appropriated by faith. Some Pentecostals will call these sacraments.

1. Church buildings itself (which plays a key role in creating a christian atmosphere in a place)

I really have no idea what you are talking about. Pentecostals build and buy church buildings. We have nothing against them. We are, however, pragmatic about such things. It is not the building that matters; the church is the people of God. However, we have nothing against having church buildings.

1. Those things which church teaches as a weapon and sheild against satan

Not really sure about this one either. Last time I checked, faith in Christ, pleading His blood, speaking His Word, prayer, fasting, and a whole host of other weapons and shields against Satan were being taught and believed in by Pentecostals.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

From what I understand what I was told by my Priest their view of the Holy Trinity is kind of like God has different costumes, not distinct persons unified in one Divine Essence.

The majority of Pentecostals believe in the traditional orthodox view of the Trinity.

However, when Pentecostalism began growing in the early 1900s, there was a growing movement of members in the Assemblies of God that began preaching the absolute Oneness of God and baptism in Jesus’ name only. Finally, the AG issued a statement reaffirming the Trinity (which it continues to do so), and the dissenters withdrew and established their own denomination. Those are the ones which you’re referring to, in the United Pentecostal Church.

 

[jerry_joseph]

1. Church buildings itself (which plays a key role in creating a christian atmosphere in a place)
   I really have no idea what you are talking about. Pentecostals build and buy church buildings. We have nothing against them. We are, however, pragmatic about such things. It is not the building that matters; the church is the people of God. However, we have nothing against having church buildings.

In our country ( India) mostly pentecosts gather in their houses for prayers. In some places they have some buildings named church. But it does not look like a church. It look likes only ordinary buildings. It does not have any corss. So it fails to provide a christian atmosphere to that place (what churches of traditional christians gives to a place)

 

[ltwin]

In our country ( India) mostly pentecosts gather in their houses for prayers. In some places they have some buildings named church. But it does not look like a church. It look likes only ordinary buildings. It does not have any corss. So it fails to provide a christian atmosphere to that place (what churches of traditional christians gives to a place)

You do realize that the first Christian places of worship were homes? Furthermore, ecclesiastical architectural styles developed over time. There is no inherent reason why a Christian place of worship has to have a cross displayed in its exterior. However, in the USA many Pentecostal churches will display crosses prominently.

Beautiful buildings are nice and possess many benefits, but they are hardly needed to create a “christian atmosphere”. That is made when two or three are gathered in Christ’s name. There are Pentecostal churches in the USA which are aesthetically pleasing. There are others which are more pragmatic. The important thing for Pentecostals is not what the building looks like, because the building is not the church. The people are the church.

Another thing to consider is that, especially in less developed countries, Pentecostals tend to be on the lower end of the social order. It may not be so much that they dislike nice buildings as much as it is that they do not have the financial means to have them.

 

[gtrenewed]

No actually I did not say this. If you understood this from what I have said, then I have been misunderstood. Perhaps I can word things more clearly.

This is copied from your post:
“Assuming we do so, this has some rather important implications to us.
(1) Whatever the theological differences exist between us, they are not on a level to stop God from moving in the Catholic church. Put another way, while y’all might still be “wrong” on certain issues, you can not be “that wrong” (and who is to say that we are not “wrong” either).
(2) While we may not endorse certain Catholic practices, these also can not be wrong to stop God from moving in the Catholic church. Put another way, while we still may not be particular fans of praying to saints, the practice can not be that bad such that God can’t move in the Catholic church. So in other words it is not witchcraft and idolatry (as I have heard it said). And again who is to say that some of our practices are not “wrong” either.”

I used the phrase “invalid expression” you said “wrong practices”, they mean the same thing.

You approached your post from the position that you, as an ASG member, are correct or at least mostly correct and the Catholic Church is wrong or at least mostly wrong. My response was to say just that the CC has the tradition and the authority from Jesus through the Apostles to be the standard of Christian expression or the Church to be in agreement with.

 

[SteveVH]

Thanks all for the information. I have explained to much of my family that I am not leaving my faith, just finding it in the fullness of truth. I do not feel that what I was raised to believe was not the truth, just not the WHOLE truth. My experience with Christ became all about the emotion; and true to our emotions, it was quite the roller coaster ride. Some of the best people you’ll ever meet in your life are at church, and some of the rudest people you’ll ever meet in your life are at church. I was raised around many good people, who loved Jesus. I just could not get past the structure and the way others were allowed to exert control over the proceedings. It was literally a free-for all. Thanks so much for the information. Continue to pray for me as I seek the truth and fullness for my relationship with Jesus, and that the resistance and negativity I have encoutered from my family would subside. Thank you.

graceandfaith

One way to explain it with a slightly different nuance is that the Catholic Church has the fullness of the means of salvation. That is what is really meant by the fullness of truth. The sacramental life of the Church is something you will find nowhere else and certainly not in the Pentecostal church.