How do people who use contraception go to confession?

[AlNg]

One is to not use a gift and the other is to abuse a gift from God.

Assuming here that NFP is used to avoid conception -
Their argument is that the intent is the same - to avoid conception. Even some Traditional Roman Catholics have a similar argument with their claim that intent is the overriding moral issue.

 

[Psalm30]

Ok. Whoever wants to reveal what they said in Confession, they can go right ahead. And, of course, no one is required to be offended by such a question just because it offends me. We’re all entitled to our own opinions. Same with people who sit with friends around the dinner table talking about their sex lives, whether or not they’re trying to get pregnant, what method of birth control they use, and whether their last child was planned or not. I’m appalled by the fact that people can talk so casually about such intimate topics, but others are not appalled by it, and they’re entitled to their opinions.

That said, I really do wish some people had just a little bit more of an appreciation for the fact that some information—just by the nature of it—is more personal and private than others, and that it really may not be a good idea to bring up said topics with people. I mean, think about it—why does Confession take place in a private room with the door closed? Why is the priest bound by the seal of the confessional, even to the point that he can’t reveal that the person the police have been searching for just confessed the crime to him? Why are medical privacy practices so rigorous? Why does the marital embrace take place behind the closed doors of a bedroom? Because some things really are just that private.

It seem like common sense to wait for people to volunteer such information rather than asking them directly about it. Asking can lead to awkwardness and embarrass people, even if they don’t technically have to answer. Can we at least agree that it’s not nice to embarrass people and make them feel uncomfortable? I was always taught that refraining from asking such questions was just basic good manners.

As far as whether speculating about what people say in Confession is appropriate or not, I am still curious as to what such a person will do with that information once he obtains it and what he is achieving by his speculations.

 

[DeniseNY]

Ok. Whoever wants to reveal what they said in Confession, they can go right ahead. And, of course, no one is required to be offended by such a question just because it offends me. We’re all entitled to our own opinions. Same with people who sit with friends around the dinner table talking about their sex lives, whether or not they’re trying to get pregnant, what method of birth control they use, and whether their last child was planned or not. I’m appalled by the fact that people can talk so casually about such intimate topics, but others are not appalled by it, and they’re entitled to their opinions.

That said, I really do wish some people had just a little bit more of an appreciation for the fact that some information—just by the nature of it—is more personal and private than others, and that it really may not be a good idea to bring up said topics with people. I mean, think about it—why does Confession take place in a private room with the door closed? Why is the priest bound by the seal of the confessional, even to the point that he can’t reveal that the person the police have been searching for just confessed the crime to him? Why are medical privacy practices so rigorous? Why does the marital embrace take place behind the closed doors of a bedroom? Because some things really are just that private.

It seem like common sense to wait for people to volunteer such information rather than asking them directly about it. Asking can lead to awkwardness and embarrass people, even if they don’t technically have to answer. Can we at least agree that it’s not nice to embarrass people and make them feel uncomfortable? I was always taught that refraining from asking such questions was just basic good manners.

As far as whether speculating about what people say in Confession is appropriate or not, I am still curious as to what such a person will do with that information once he obtains it and what he is achieving by his speculations.

Agreed.

And I guess if for whatever reason anyone wants to begin asking people what they’ve said in confession, maybe they should first run it by their pastor and see what he has to say about it.

 

[IdaCatholic]

Wow this escalated quickly. From “hey why do you think people rationalize this” to “you have invaded my privacy and the authorities should deal with it”

These forums are odd sometimes.

The fact is there is no freedom of speech on the forums because it is a private organization. And the way it is set up one cannot have a true conversation about birth control, the pope or NFP without breaking some sort of guidelines that are enforced unequally.

So, it is what so many threads are. About 10 posts of subject matter in the beginning devolving into a weird argument about satellite subjects until a group wins, usually by flags.
Meanwhile, while the argument is made for tact and that some subjects are private bedroom subjects, the minors posting about sexuality and masturbation threads are still quite popular to post on. Despite the public image and possibly legal risks involved with CAF.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Anyone with scrupulosity needs to go to a priest they trust, a priest totally faithful to the magisterium, tell them their situation, and ask if that priest can hear their confessions regularly.

Both are needed. If I suffered from scrupulosity, I would be pleased to go so far as to sign a waiver and allow my therapist to speak with my priest-confessor about my condition — not to break the seal of confession, but to allow the priest better to understand my illness.

And further, if a parishioner came up to me and asked me about my confession after telling them to get lost, I think I’d tell the pastor.

OK, let’s step back for a moment and clarify some things. I have no intention of going up to perfect strangers — or even people I might know — and asking them “do you use contraception, and if you do, how do you handle it in the confessional?”. If I had a close friend who was Catholic, I might ask them something like this. They might ask me. I wouldn’t be taken aback at all. Things like this come up in friendship and in families. Some people are comfortable talking about this sort of thing.

We’re all entitled to our own opinions. Same with people who sit with friends around the dinner table talking about their sex lives, whether or not they’re trying to get pregnant, what method of birth control they use, and whether their last child was planned or not. I’m appalled by the fact that people can talk so casually about such intimate topics, but others are not appalled by it, and they’re entitled to their opinions.

Quite right — in some circumstances, people do talk about things such as this to each other. People freely talk about whether their last child was an “oops baby”, whether they’re “done having kids”, whether they’re trying to have a child, and so on. Women are particularly forthcoming about discussing these things with other women. And when a mother (or father, or both) go somewhere with all their kids in tow, yes, people make comments, some good, some not so good.

Questions of “rudeness” and over-inquisitiveness are also socially conditioned. When I moved to Washington DC, late 1980s, I was appalled by some things that people freely discussed. People there think nothing of telling you how much money they make, and asking how much money you make. I wasn’t raised to discuss those things. In the South, people will ask you what church you go to. In New England, that would be considered a horribly rude question. People in Indonesia freely discuss what kind of birth control they use. And so on.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

As far as whether speculating about what people say in Confession is appropriate or not, I am still curious as to what such a person will do with that information once he obtains it and what he is achieving by his speculations.

Oh, I don’t know. I might do a SurveyMonkey-type poll. I might write about it on my blog. I might do a podcast or a YouTube video.

Or I might simply use it to instruct my son in homeschool — I teach him Catholic moral doctrine in its entirety, and I teach him the Sixth and Ninth Commandments in a manner appropriate to his age, with the information he needs to know at this age. I have taught him that contraception is evil, and that if a married couple wishes not to have a child at a given time, they confine their intimacy to the time of the month that a woman is least likely to get pregnant — while always being willing to accept another child if that should happen in spite of their efforts. We are studying human growth, development, and reproduction this quarter and he understands everything. We are also devoting considerable time to studying the various stages in the development of the fetus. There was never a more staunch pro-lifer on the face of the earth than my son — he has said more than once “if I were President, I’d make abortion illegal on my first day in office”. I’ve tried to tell him it’s not quite that simple.

 

[Psalm30]

Psalm30:

As far as whether speculating about what people say in Confession is appropriate or not, I am still curious as to what such a person will do with that information once he obtains it and what he is achieving by his speculations.

Oh, I don’t know. I might do a SurveyMonkey-type poll. I might write about it on my blog. I might do a podcast or a YouTube video.

Or I might simply use it to instruct my son in homeschool — I teach him Catholic moral doctrine in its entirety, and I teach him the Sixth and Ninth Commandments in a manner appropriate to his age, with the information he needs to know at this age. I have taught him that contraception is evil, and that if a married couple wishes not to have a child at a given time, they confine their intimacy to the time of the month that a woman is least likely to get pregnant — while always being willing to accept another child if that should happen in spite of their efforts. We are studying human growth, development, and reproduction this quarter and he understands everything. We are also devoting considerable time to studying the various stages in the development of the fetus. There was never a more staunch pro-lifer on the face of the earth than my son — he has said more than once “if I were President, I’d make abortion illegal on my first day in office”. I’ve tried to tell him it’s not quite that simple.

That’s wonderful. I’m very glad you teach all of those things to your son, and I’m happy to hear he is pro-life and that he understands what you’re teaching him.

Still, though…I’m not sure why any of what you just described requires you to speculate about what people say in Confession.

 

[Psalm30]

Wow this escalated quickly. From “hey why do you think people rationalize this” to “you have invaded my privacy and the authorities should deal with it”

These forums are odd sometimes.

The fact is there is no freedom of speech on the forums because it is a private organization. And the way it is set up one cannot have a true conversation about birth control, the pope or NFP without breaking some sort of guidelines that are enforced unequally.

So, it is what so many threads are. About 10 posts of subject matter in the beginning devolving into a weird argument about satellite subjects until a group wins, usually by flags.
Meanwhile, while the argument is made for tact and that some subjects are private bedroom subjects, the minors posting about sexuality and masturbation threads are still quite popular to post on. Despite the public image and possibly legal risks involved with CAF.

Look, I can’t speak for the other posters, and honestly I agree that the “going to the civil authorities” comment may have been a little extreme (although I overall agree with what they said). But everything I personally said about privacy was in response to the OP saying “mind your own business” when I asked him what he intends to do with the information he obtains from this thread. I really don’t think anyone is entitled to say “mind your own business” when he himself has started a thread speculating about something as personal and private as what people say in the Confessional.

 

[DeniseNY]

I really don’t think anyone is entitled to say “mind your own business” when he himself has started a thread speculating about something as personal and private as what people say in the Confessional.

Indeed

8675309

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

I mean, think about it—why does Confession take place in a private room with the door closed?

From what I have heard it’s so our enemies can’t use our confessed sins against us.

Why is the priest bound by the seal of the confessional, even to the point that he can’t reveal that the person the police have been searching for just confessed the crime to him?

Same reason plus if our enemies use them against us we are far less likely to come to the priest to have our sins absolved.

Why are medical privacy practices so rigorous?

People don’t trust employers and the government. They’re right too.

Why does the marital embrace take place behind the closed doors of a bedroom?

Because we can afford more than one room in our homes and pagans were licentious and we don’t want to be like them in causing scandal.

Because some things really are just that private.

But what is private is fairly cultural. Some of that culture, in fact much, may be formed by our cult (Christianity).

It seem like common sense to wait for people to volunteer such information rather than asking them directly about it.

That’s essentially what’s being done here. It’s like he’s saying to people, if your interested in talking about such a thing, I’m a guy who’d be interested in listening. And then he waits to see if such people are out there.

Can we at least agree that it’s not nice to embarrass people and make them feel uncomfortable?

I could…if I could see how that would work here. The internet is like a bulletin board listing where you look at it, find something that interests you, tear off the phone number and call and if you aren’t interested you keep looking until you find something that does interest you.

I was always taught that refraining from asking such questions was just basic good manners.

I understand that. But the internet isn’t really comparable to face to face conversations and the ‘rules’ that apply to those situations like family meals or conversing around the water cooler at work. It wouldn’t really make sense unless you had a small private group that was locked to anyone without an invitation.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

OK, here’s what I’ve gathered:

• “How contraception is handled in confession” is pretty much a “don’t ask, don’t tell” situation.
• The priests don’t ask and the people don’t tell (those who are using ABC, that is).
• People either don’t use ABC and it’s not an issue for them, or they do use ABC and they don’t want it brought up to them.

I don’t think it’s any more complicated than that.

And there is one other factor I’m not sure anyone has considered:

I have found that some non-Catholics are intensely curious about “what we do and why we do it”. A lot of them don’t even particularly like Catholicism, and they are eager to “poke holes in it” to try to prove it wrong. Some are just curious about a faith that differs from what they’re used to.

I think it’s a pretty fair bet that some of them are eventually going to ask “hey, that birth control thing, I hear some of you Catholics don’t agree with your church on that, how does that work when people go to confession?”. Perfectly legitimate question.

I’ve said pretty much everything I can say about it.

 

[Psalm30]

Wow, you’ve got an answer for everything. I think you’ve missed the forest for the trees.

I’ll say this once more: all of my arguments about privacy are in response to the OP’s “mind your own business” comment earlier in the thread. He said it in response to me asking what he plans to do with the information he obtains from this discussion. I’m merely saying that someone who sits around speculating about what people say in Confession doesn’t exactly get to respond with a “mind your own business” comment when he himself has initiated a discussion about something so personal and private.

I believe have nothing more to say that I haven’t already said. You take care and God bless.

 

[Jen7]

If I suffered from scrupulosity, I would be pleased to go so far as to sign a waiver and allow my therapist to speak with my priest-confessor about my condition — not to break the seal of confession, but to allow the priest better to understand my illness.

I think it would be fantastic if priests got OCD therapy training from professionals! I’m sure they all can spot scrupulosity… but knowing how/what to advise folks would be a fabulous asset to pastoral care. I’ve talked to many people who are shocked to hear that their scrupulosity is a form of OCD. Naturally these people aren’t already going to therapy for a condition they didn’t think they had. In this sense priests in confession can be on the front lines of helping tortured souls gets the very real help they need! Fantastic idea, HomeschoolDad.

 

[Anicette]

At the very least couples should confess the sin, and Priests should strongly encourage repentance in the most practical way possible - stop !

Yes, but to confess the sin, you had to be sorry and feel contrition. And many who use contraception do it because they are convinced they are right…

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

but to confess the sin, you had to be sorry and feel contrition.

Contrition means you are sorry for having offended God because of his goodness. The minimum necessary disposition for a valid confession is “attrition,” the fear of punishment. And while these dispositions carry emotions with them, or they can, emotion is not a prerequisite for either of them.

And many who use contraception do it because they are convinced they are right…

Believing they are right is a problem.

 

[rosejmj]

The way the question is asked makes it seem like you want to point out people’s sin which honestly gives the impression of a self righteous,holier than thou kind of person. You say your intentions are good and I’m sure on the surface they are, although I doubt there is no pride mixed in. If God condemns all those who use contraception… Idk,but it would make it hard to see God as good. Sure do it naturally, but please do limit and be smart about the number of children you have. More thought and discernment should be used when deciding to have a child than deciding to try to avoid having a child

 

[Anicette]

Sure do it naturally, but please do limit and be smart about the number of children you have.

not your business at all to mandate that people limit the number of their children. The Church do not even mandate this.

(do you reply to the OP, who is no longer concerned, or for evevryone?)

More thought and discernment should be used when deciding to have a child than deciding to try to avoid having a child

Again, maybe but not your business at all. It can be the general impression given because of the long life expectancy in the developped area, but it is not a true for everytime in history or everyplace on the world or for every couple (for eg, some marry late, and don’t have the opportunity to delay).

I am sorry to be rude.

 

[Anicette]

thanks you for the correction.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

The way the question is asked makes it seem like you want to point out people’s sin which honestly gives the impression of a self righteous,holier than thou kind of person. You say your intentions are good and I’m sure on the surface they are, although I doubt there is no pride mixed in

What makes you think I have never performed contraceptive acts and rationalized not confessing them and not giving them up?

I have committed worse sins than contraception, and I rationalized those too.

If God condemns all those who use contraception… Idk,but it would make it hard to see God as good.

Almighty God condemns the behavior, but He is merciful to each and every soul. Mercy does not mean “go right on committing this sin, I won’t hold it against you”, but I have to think He realizes (if you can speak of God as “realizing” anything) that people are propagandized, that they are poorly catechized, and that they do not grasp the malice of this particular sin. Many may not be capable of seeing this sin as it really is.

So much is made in our modern world about “not judging me”. I don’t believe I do that. I cannot say what my neighbor’s “status” is with Almighty God, and I wouldn’t even go there. I would point out the danger of committing certain acts, gravely sinful in themselves, with sufficient reflection and full consent of the will. That is not “judging”. I suspect that much of the “don’t judge me” mentality in today’s world is better described as “leave me alone and don’t make me think of my pet behavior as sinful, sinful to the point of placing my salvation in jeopardy”. That being the case, they are really saying “don’t make me think too much and make me end up judging myself”. Am I right?

Sure do it naturally, but please do limit and be smart about the number of children you have. More thought and discernment should be used when deciding to have a child than deciding to try to avoid having a child

You know, your last comment actually makes a lot of sense. Never thought of it that way.

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

If God condemns all those who use contraception… Idk,

It’s undeniably a grave sin. I’m not sure what you mean by condemn.

but it would make it hard to see God as good.

That sounds like a you problem. I.e. you don’t like God’s law so God is bad for making it.

please do limit…about the number of children you have.

Why?

please…be smart about the number of children you have.

What does that mean?

More thought and discernment should be used when deciding to have a child than deciding to try to avoid having a child

Exactly wong.