How do people who use contraception go to confession?

[HomeschoolDad]

Sure, a confessor or spiritual director can be consulted, but it is not necessary. I did actually have this conversation with my confessor at one point. He gave me his opinion that NFP was fine for the circumstances I was facing. I appreciated his guidance and discussed it with my husband. We ultimately decided not to use NFP and that was fine, as well.

It is always safer to run any major moral decisions — and using NFP or not is pretty major — by your confessor or spiritual director, if you have one.

The Church is now willing to look at subjective psychological and spiritual factors

No, Catholics believed marriage was for life with no way out. A lot of Catholics lived in hellish marriages. A lot of Catholics did not.

Newly and recently ordained priests seem to be more conservative theologically than in times past.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I am just going by what I see in the various parishes. Back in the 1960s and 1970s, priests tended to find every way they possibly could, to conform to the larger society and to address very real concerns brought on by the various social revolutions that were taking place. Many priests went too far. There was some doubt in the early- and mid-1960s whether the “pill” was artificial or natural, and there was much anticipation that Pope Paul VI was going to relax the teaching. He didn’t. A lot of people were disappointed.

Absolutely not.

I would be interested to know how these EO priests justify this. There is always the possibility they would have to concede that they are simply wrong, and would have to defer to the traditional teaching of both Orthodoxy and Catholicism.

By all means then carry on. I’ll stick to sweeping my own side of the street. Until I am without sin, I’ll try and not cast stones.

I seek to understand people’s motivations for many reasons:

• To be able to refute error.
• To be able to demonstrate that their reasoning is faulty.
• To lead them to understand that there is no sugar-coating it, they want to continue sinning, perhaps mortally, and don’t want anyone reminding them otherwise.
• To be able to “hit a nerve” with those who don’t want to have to consider changing their ways.
• To be able to teach and counsel those for whom I am responsible (my own son, for openers).
• And just for the sake of knowledge. Some people say “the only knowledge you need is what is helpful to you, yourself, in your day-to-day life”. I do not agree with that.

To those who ask “what do you intend to do with it”, I would simply turn their assertion back on them and say “don’t worry about that, just mind your own business, and leave me be”.

I have a really REALLY hard time with the concept of being required to discuss reasons for using NFP with a priest or spiritual director. Is this truly what the Church requires? I sincerely hope not.

Not required, but advisable, “best practice”, so to speak.

Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t have a problem in the world with a priest in the confessional challenging me on my behavior and formation of conscience.

 

[Psalm30]

To those who ask “what do you intend to do with it”, I would simply turn their assertion back on them and say “don’t worry about that, just mind your own business, and leave me be”.

I find that very difficult when you are the one who has initially failed to “just mind your own business and leave [other people] be.”

Not required, but advisable, “best practice”, so to speak.

Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t have a problem in the world with a priest in the confessional challenging me on my behavior and formation of conscience.

If you (or anyone else) want to discuss the deepest, most intimate, personal, private aspect of marriage with anyone other than your spouse, you go right ahead. I personally am not comfortable with it, and I can understand why people would feel turned away from a religion that preaches it is the “best practice” to do so.

As far as your own zealous mission regarding your topic here, how exactly do you know whether people are even using contraception? And what makes you think you are entitled to know what ANYONE says in Confession?

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

I find that very difficult when you are the one who has initially failed to “just mind your own business and leave [other people] be.”

He put a question out into the ether that people may or may not answer as they see fit. It’s hardly compulsory. Why do you care if he asks random people questions they can choose to answer or not as they so wish?

 

[babochka]

Everyone’s situation is different.

Exactly. So why waste any time trying to second-guess the sufficiency of reasons for a couple that is trying to do the right thing?

 

[HomeschoolDad]

As far as your own zealous mission regarding your topic here, how exactly do you know whether people are even using contraception?

Simply put, statistics. People tell the pollsters, and then the pollsters extrapolate that data. It’s a highly reliable method that is used widely in business, public relations, advertising, politics, and yes, to enable the Church to know if her teachings are being received and observed by the faithful.

I know some people do not like opinion polls, and say that you cannot know about behavior unless you go and ask each individual. I do not agree with this.

And by the way, many women go around bragging, usually after their “last” pregnancy, “I’ve been fixed, no more kids for me, God has blessed me”. I can most certainly know that they, at least, are contracepting, by means of having been sterilized.

Everyone’s situation is different.

It is part of any good examination of conscience for the penitent to “second-guess” themselves, and ask in brutal honesty — “fearlessly”, to use the language of 12-step programs — whether there is any behavior that they are rationalizing or living in denial about.

 

[Psalm30]

Psalm30:

I find that very difficult when you are the one who has initially failed to “just mind your own business and leave [other people] be.”

He put a question out into the ether that people may or may not answer as they see fit. It’s hardly compulsory. Why do you care if he asks random people questions they can choose to answer or not as they so wish?

Because the questions he’s posing are not “random.” They are invasive, personal, and private. Whether anyone is required to answer or not, it is extremely inappropriate to ask questions about what goes on in Confession. NO ONE should be speculating about what goes on when anyone other than him/herself is in the Confessional. It’s not healthy or appropriate for the person doing the speculating.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

They are invasive, personal, and private.

Perhaps, but I’d rather be fraternally corrected, “hung out to dry”, in this life, than have other people just “leave me be” and allow me to keep feeling good about my sins, and take that into eternity with me.

I personally am not comfortable with it, and I can understand why people would feel turned away from a religion that preaches it is the “best practice” to do so.

The Church does not teach that it is “best practice”. I think it is a good thing for a penitent to be as candid and open with their confessor as possible. A good confessor will help a penitent to see their sins for what they actually are, and to draw them out of their “comfort zone” if need be.

 

[Toledo]

How do people who use contraception go to confession? Liturgy and Sacraments

I’m a priest. I’ve never been instructed thus, and if I were, I would ignore the instruction. No sense in giving out false mercy. You can’t lie to people to keep them in the Church. And I don’t know what you’re talking about with Confessions being less offered and less practiced. I hear confessions every single day.

Thank you Father, for your dedicated ministry and service, both on this forum and in your home parish.

I’m guessing many of us here would love to have another fully orthodox priest added to our home parishes. Practicing Catholics want nothing more than a fully practicing Catholic priest aiding us on our journey.

 

[Pattylt]

I worked for years with several Catholic women and we often got personal with what we shared. Only one of them was what most CAFers would consider Good Catholics, I guess. This one Catholic was infertile and we often sympathized with her struggles.

The others did use ABC and as far as I know from their discussions, they loved their church, loved their faith but didn’t consider it any of the churchs business how they produced their families. I have no idea if they confessed it or not but I personally doubt it. ABC is temporary even if it’s used for years…eventually menopause ends the need.

What is the church to do? If approximately 60% of their fertile married parishioners are using ABC, does the priest refuse to absolve their other sins…he must, as there is no partial absolution. I’d think the women are unwilling to have the church dictate their family size and family decisions, do the priests risk alienating these families and losing them or better to just wait it out and hope their faith becomes stronger with time?

I know what most of you here would say but I think you represent a small percentage of Catholics in the real world on especially this topic. There are just a lot of catholic women that don’t agree with church teaching here or they feel the church is reaching beyond where it should. Is this modernist thinking? You bet it is. It’s what most people are.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

I seek to understand people’s motivations for many reasons:

• To be able to refute error.
• To be able to demonstrate that their reasoning is faulty.
• To lead them to understand that there is no sugar-coating it, they want to continue sinning, perhaps mortally, and don’t want anyone reminding them otherwise.
• To be able to “hit a nerve” with those who don’t want to have to consider changing their ways.

People who are in these situations are usually sensual, so reason isn’t able to help them.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

I find that very difficult when you are the one who has initially failed to “just mind your own business and leave [other people] be.”

That means you are just guilty so there’s no room to talk in the first place. Talk about a double standard.

 

[anon91549587]

Were you ever worried of not having enough money to feed the family ?

 

[Psalm30]

Psalm30:

I find that very difficult when you are the one who has initially failed to “just mind your own business and leave [other people] be.”

That means you are just guilty so there’s no room to talk in the first place. Talk about a double standard.

How in the world is it a double standard to tell someone asking invasive questions to mind their own business? He posed the horribly inappropriate questions speculating what people say in Confession. I simply asked what he intends to do with this information, which he has no right to have in the first place.

And actually, I am not guilty of what he is asking about. I do not use contraception and I follow the teachings of the Church on this matter. But please, show me where the Church says it is good and right to sit around thinking about what people other than ourselves say in Confession, and to pose the question to others.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

How in the world is it a double standard to tell someone asking invasive questions to mind their own business?

Because you have to be worrying about someone elses business to care enough to say something in the first place.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

What is the church to do? If approximately 60% of their fertile married parishioners are using ABC, does the priest refuse to absolve their other sins…he must, as there is no partial absolution.

Yes, that is correct, he must.

It is true that, theoretically, a penitent can withhold a venial sin, not be sorry for it, and receive absolution for all of their sins except that one. I find that grotesque — to leave the confessional with an unforgiven sin, venial though it is, and to face God-knows-what in purgatory if I die in that state — however, the Church does allow it, and I cannot second-guess that.

But contraception is not a venial sin, given the three conditions (grave matter, sufficient knowledge/reflection, full consent of the will). If these three conditions exist, and the penitent does not confess the sin and resolve not to commit it in the future, the confession is invalid and sacrilegious.

The others did use ABC and as far as I know from their discussions, they loved their church, loved their faith but didn’t consider it any of the church’s business how they produced their families.

Then they were simply wrong. And besides, it’s not a question of “the Church’s business”, it’s “God’s business”.

I’d think the women are unwilling to have the church dictate their family size and family decisions, do the priests risk alienating these families and losing them or better to just wait it out and hope their faith becomes stronger with time?

There might be such a risk, but the Church cannot “just not teach” certain doctrines. Our Lord taught the crowd that they must eat His Body and drink His Blood, and many people left. It was what it was. Some of those people returned after the resurrection.

 

[IdaCatholic]

No. I live in a first world country. My wife is employed and I stay home, it is pretty easy to feed seven kids. Many people have one kid with way less income per kid than we have. I don’t think that people should meet an income criteria to have children. That being said, there are challenges.

But money is never an acceptable reason to use ABC.

 

[Psalm30]

The Church does not teach that it is “best practice”. I think it is a good thing for a penitent to be as candid and open with their confessor as possible. A good confessor will help a penitent to see their sins for what they actually are, and to draw them out of their “comfort zone” if need be.

You admit that the Church doesn’t teach it, but you continue to promote it as the best practice. Unless you explicitly state that this is not actual Church teaching, before you start preaching about it, anyone who is being preached to by you is going to see it as Church teaching. And it’s not — it’s your opinion that you’re putting out there as Church teaching.

It is part of any good examination of conscience for the penitent to “second-guess” themselves , and ask in brutal honesty — “fearlessly”, to use the language of 12-step programs — whether there is any behavior that they are rationalizing or living in denial about.

So, once again…is this Church teaching or your opinion?

This type of continuous second guessing you describe can easily send a devout Catholic with OCD into a dark case of scrupulously, where no matter how hard you try, nothing is ever good enough and you’re pretty much destined for hell.

 

[anon91549587]

Wow a totally new perspective. 7 kids ! I can imagine the effort it takes to cook.

 

[IdaCatholic]

Me too. I must say that I am not scrupulous but some priests I have experienced in confession make me question if we are members of the same faith. I’ve mentioned before that several times I’ve just had to say, politely but firmly, “Father, I am not here to debate this issue, I have dicerned mortal sin on my soul and I am here for absolution. Can you offer me absolution in accordance with the Church?”

And then I try to not go back to that priest.