How do people who use contraception go to confession?

[AlNg]

It is not a sin for the penitent to reveal what is said in confession.

That is what you say. That is not what I was taught.

I would then ask the question “all right, if sins of the flesh aren’t the sins that send more people to hell than any others, what kind of sins are ?”

Who on earth would know the answer for certain?

 

[Anicette]

Castration is a grave sin when done to preserve a soprano voice.

Definitely, but not the only reason. The Church believed it is a grave sin too when it is done for preventing someone or ourself to fall into sexual temptation.
The only justification for it seems to save a patient from death because of an illness.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

It is not a sin for the penitent to reveal what is said in confession.

It is not just what I say:

Fr Heribert Jone, Moral Theology, 1951:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

As a general rule, it’s probably not a good idea, but there is no sin in so doing.

If you overhear someone else’s confession, then yes, you are bound by the seal. I really wish both priests and penitents would soften their voices — it’s not infrequent that the person who is next in line has to make a deliberate effort not to hear at least snippets of what is being said.

I would then ask the question “all right, if sins of the flesh aren’t the sins that send more people to hell than any others, what kind of sins are ?”

We wouldn’t, unless Almighty God chooses to allow it to be revealed (as with Our Lady of Fatima), and even then, I will concede that it is just a private revelation that is not binding on the faithful.

Many otherwise decent, virtuous people get ensnared in certain sins of the flesh, and the more they get ensnared in these, the harder it is for them to break with them. It is probably more of a problem for males, as their sexual impulses tend to be more urgent.

 

[blackforest]

It is not a sin for the penitent to reveal what is said in confession. I will concede that it might be tacky, or nosy, or rude, to ask someone — but tackiness, nosiness, or rudeness is not necessarily sinful, and even if it were sinful in a given instance (uncharity, self-righteousness, etc.), it is not the same level of sinfulness as a priest breaking the confessional seal ( nefas est ).

This whole thread calls Matthew 7:3 to mind . . .

Even granting — not conceding — that she may have been wrong, or that the message may not have been authentic, I would then ask the question “all right, if sins of the flesh aren’t the sins that send more people to hell than any others, what kind of sins are ?”

We don’t know. That’s why we confess. That’s why we seek to love and follow Him regardless.

These are addictive.

But again, addiction is treated not as a sin but as a mitigating factor for sin.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

It is not a sin for the penitent to reveal what is said in confession. I will concede that it might be tacky, or nosy, or rude, to ask someone — but tackiness, nosiness, or rudeness is not necessarily sinful, and even if it were sinful in a given instance (uncharity, self-righteousness, etc.), it is not the same level of sinfulness as a priest breaking the confessional seal ( nefas est ).

I am well aware of the whole truckload of 2x4’s in my own eye.

I cannot think of an instance where I would be asking someone “hey, what did you say in confession?”. It’s something that is generally not just done. I don’t believe that, in posing the question in the original post, I asked anyone this question about contraception.

These are addictive.

And the addictive factor is one more thing teachers of the Faith need to be reminding people of, when speaking of these sins. Illicit sex is not just dangerous because it is objectively gravely sinful, or (not to be crude) because “it feels good”, but because it has an addictive nature that few other sins have. The “addiction factor” seems just to be “built into it”, perhaps to bind spouses closer to each other, perhaps to ensure the continuation of the human race.

I have to think that Our Lord understands the “addiction factor”, and this is one reason He forgives this sin so readily (and so often!). Of course it mitigates responsibility, when someone has fallen into habitual sin and possibly compulsion along with it. All the more reason we have to avoid these sins like the plague and to “resist beginnings” — you don’t have to break a habit you don’t take up, you don’t have to fight addictions when you don’t get addicted in the first place.

 

[AlNg]

I asked anyone this question about contraception.

According to what you yourself have posted:
He who discloses matters to the detriment of the confessor sins by violating a natural or a committed secret, unless the private welfare or the common good requires such manifestation.
Besides, this is a moral guide by Fr Heribert Jone, Moral Theology , 1951. It is not clear to me that this is an official Vatican document.
And I will concede that my teacher could be wrong. It has happened before that teachers give out information that is somewhat dubious. I just relate to you what I had been taught.
But I do remember that it was in the news a while back that someone was writing a book on what the penitent was told in confession. The author of the book took with him a tape recorder and made false confessions (a mortal sin of sacrilege right there) and recorded what the priest said. He then related the results with the purpose in mind of showing that what the penitent is advised or told in confession differs from one priest to another. And the penance differs from one priest to another even though the sin confessed may be the same. The news reported that the Vatican had strongly condemned this as a grave sacrilege and I think an excommunicable offense. I don’t remember all the details and whether or not it was reported that the Vatican teaching was that it was wrong for the penitent to reveal what the confessor had advised him during the confession. But what the author did was in the public news.

 

[AlNg]

which were no longer forbidden under the new covenant.

Some were, some weren’t.

 

[AlNg]

The Church believed it is a grave sin too

They did? I thought I read that there was a time when castration for Church choir members was happening more than once?

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Besides, this is a moral guide by Fr Heribert Jone, Moral Theology , 1951. It is not clear to me that this is an official Vatican document.

No, but the imprimatur indicates that the book, and its advice, contains no danger to faith or morals.

The author of the book took with him a tape recorder and made false confessions (a mortal sin of sacrilege right there) and recorded what the priest said. He then related the results with the purpose in mind of showing that what the penitent is advised or told in confession differs from one priest to another. And the penance differs from one priest to another even though the sin confessed may be the same. The news reported that the Vatican had strongly condemned this as a grave sacrilege and I think an excommunicable offense.

It is indeed a great sacrilege, I’m not so sure whether it is grounds for excommunication. (If it’s not, it should be.). I don’t envy priests hearing confessions one bit. A disaffected penitent, or someone doing so for some nefarious purpose, can tell anything that the priest says in the confessional, and he cannot say one word in his defense, nor say whether what the penitent claims he said is true or false.

 

[Psalm30]

It is a delicate matter but, in fairness to @HomeschoolDad there are more than a few priests who don’t address it either because it’s too controversial or because they think the church has no business interfering in people’s private lives. Tbh I don’t think I’ve ever directly mentioned it in a homily, most probably because I’m usually trying to preach on the readings of the day. Although I don’t have to confine myself to the readings, let’s just say that there’s a time and a place for everything. As I’ve said before, it has come up in the confessional and appropriate tact and sensitivity was a must. Certainly, the examination of conscience leaflets which HomeschoolDad talks about are a very good idea. It would be hesitant (to say the least) about suggesting sins but referring people to the leaflet would be a good pastoral approach.

Thank you for your post, Father.

If I may pose one more question: To what extent is a layperson expected by the Church to engage in fraternal correction? If one happens to see someone doing something wrong they bring it up directly to that person? Should one actively seek out people who are living in sin and try to evangelize? At what point does it become a sin to—for lack of better word—“allow” someone to continue to sin without saying anything about it? At what point does a person overstep bounds by correcting someone?

I’ve always struggled with this concept in my own faith journey, so I would indeed appreciate insight.

 

[Anicette]

Castration had existed for some singers (castra) but was not approoved by the Catholic Church.
At least as a whole. Maybe some clergy members were dissenting.

I will check and come back if I found otherwise.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Castration had existed for some singers (castra) but was not approoved by the Catholic Church.
At least as a whole. Maybe some clergy members were dissenting.

I will check and come back if I found otherwise.

If I had to guess, I would say that this was a case of people being willing to use immoral means to gain a good end. “The end justifies the means” is as old as all mankind — and it is evil.

They may have rationalized this by saying “this music gives glory to Almighty God and if we have to remove ‘those’ to create it, so be it”, possibly “these young men are being made eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven”, or possibly even “‘those’ are just going to get these young men in trouble, as happens so often in this world, so they are really better off without them, and it will give great glory to God to ensure that they can continue to make such sweet music”. People have been playing such games to get what they want since forever and a day.

 

[blackforest]

I don’t believe that, in posing the question in the original post, I asked anyone this question about contraception.

You didn’t ask, but you don’t have to look any further than the thread title to see that you’re curious.

The “addiction factor” seems just to be “built into it”, perhaps to bind spouses closer to each other, perhaps to ensure the continuation of the human race.

Sex addiction has its own clinical diagnosis, (depending on varying professional standards - e.g. ASAM but not APA), and it does not describe most sexually active people.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I don’t believe that, in posing the question in the original post, I asked anyone this question about contraception.

I care about whether other people sin or not, and whether they give greater glory to Almighty God or not. I do not think that “praying for them”, while always needed, is the only thing another person can do. Setting an example, raising questions, reframing the narrative, challenging the motives that lead them to sin in the first place, even — to create a term — “sin-shaming” — leading them to think about what they are doing, and about its ramifications — all of these things have their place. And sometimes laypeople can get into places, so to speak, that priests can’t. Supposedly priests are limited as to how they can approach this issue, and other issues, in the confessional. If so, so be it. Perhaps someone needs to be on the sidelines, to bring up “elephants in the parlor” that priests apparently cannot.

I don’t know if anyone else has had this experience, but I have found myself throughout life, frequently crossing paths, and having to live among, people who absolutely hate the Catholic Church and the Catholic Faith. I have interacted with many people who could be just downright crude. You get used to it. It rolls off your back like rain off a duck. I have been asked questions that many here on CAF would find appalling. It is not at all wide of the mark, to anticipate that someone is going to ask one day, “hey, that birth control thing, how does that work in confession?”. If I respond “confessions are a private matter and we’re not even supposed to discuss things like that”, they can well come back and say “y’all just go ahead and do it and don’t confess it, right?”. A Lutheran woman who was involved in her church’s religious education program gleefully related to me one time “I hear Catholics go to communion all the time, but you don’t go to confession anymore — sounds to me like you’re becoming just like Lutherans!”. I calmly replied that I don’t go to either one as much as I should. If we don’t call ourselves out on this sort of thing, be assured that someone else will do it for us.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

The “addiction factor” seems just to be “built into it”, perhaps to bind spouses closer to each other, perhaps to ensure the continuation of the human race.

Perhaps, but try telling anyone in the secular world that they are going to have to modify their sexual behavior, and cut back or even entirely cease having sex, and see what happens.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

That doesn’t suggest any kind of addiction, though. Most people don’t like being told what to do, or that they are wrong, especially regarding a subject which is usually thought of as a person, private subject.

 

[SusanneT]

They WISH Father would preach something, believing the husband would hear it from a man better than from his wife. I think that sentiment among married women applies to all kinds of 6th commandment sins. It’s a pity more priests won’t support marital chastity and openness to life openly. The issues are left to be private arguments behind closed bedroom doors when really these poor wives shouldn’t have to stand alon

Jen - I really couldn’t agree with you more. I think the overwhelming majority of Christian (let alone Catholic) women feel instinctively that contraception is sinful but crave ‘official’ affirmation from their Priest. Certainly among our Catholic women’s group that is definitely the case.

 

[Psalm30]

It is not at all wide of the mark, to anticipate that someone is going to ask one day, “hey, that birth control thing, how does that work in confession?”. If I respond “confessions are a private matter and we’re not even supposed to discuss things like that”,

The scenario you describe here is completely different than the scenario implied by the title of your thread.

If someone does indeed come up to you and initiate a discussion by saying, “Hey, that birth control thing, how does that work in Confession?” then you absolutely should explain that in confession, you must confess all mortal sins in number and kind for the confession to be valid. You can then also say what you said in another post, that contraception is grave matter and that when done with full knowledge and consent of the will, it constitutes a mortal sin.

I will humbly suggest, however, that doing this does not require you to know or speculate about what people say in Confession, as implied by the title of your thread.

 

[blackforest]

Perhaps, but try telling anyone in the secular world that they are going to have to modify their sexual behavior, and cut back or even entirely cease having sex, and see what happens.

First, this stereotype doesn’t sound charitable. Have once lived in that “world,” I can assure you that not all secular people are barnyard animals in heat.

Second, I’d be pretty peeved if if another Catholic took interest in what I was doing in the bedroom and asked me to stop or “modify [my] sexual behavior.” All we need to do is share our faith and pray that people come to similar conclusions with guidance from Church teaching and clergy.

 

[Anicette]

If I had to guess, I would say that this was a case of people being willing to use immoral means to gain a good end. “The end justifies the means” is as old as all mankind — and it is evil.

Maybe, but apart the evident mutilation of the body, there is also another dimension of immorality as it was performed on underage boys who by definition cannot consent. It is against their dignity and their will.