How do Protestants and Catholics differ regarding works?

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aball1035

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From Catholics I’ve been told that justification comes through faith and works.

From Protestants I’ve been told that it comes through faith. The person will then produce works after, and this will show it’s a true faith.
  1. Isn’t this essentially the same?
  2. What are the “works” Catholics refer to?
 
OK aball1035.

I am giving a truncated answer. This won’t be complete.

So if it raises more questions from you or others, I’ll attempt to deal with those questions raised later in this thread.

Protestants (not all but many), see “works” as something you do on your own accord. Since these “works” are done on your own, they cannot contribute to your salvation.

Some Protestants say good works are absolutely unnecessary in regards to salvation.

Others have told me they NECESSARILY flow from a “saving relationship with Christ”.

Others have different ideas.

Catholics likewise see “works” as NOT contributing to one’s salvation (in certain circumstaces), but in other situations Catholics DO see “works” contributing.

Works done apart from justifying grace do not contribute.

Works done IN GRACE, done UNITED to Christ DO matter.

There is a mysterious element of free will cooperating with God at WORK IN YOU, both for the will and good pleasure of the Father.

Catholics affirm the whole package (including the necessity of faith).

Protestants generally affirm PART of the package.

Hope that helps.

God bless.

Cathoholic

The faith and charity that is in you and through you is an unmerited GIFT from God.

You receive these (and other) gifts when you are “born again” or “born of water and the Spirit”–Baptized.
 
I hate having to keep explaining this. So, two words: Synergism and Monergism. Look them up.
 
aball1035 said:
From Catholics I’ve been told that justification comes through faith and works.

From Protestants I’ve been told that it comes through faith. The person will then produce works after, and this will show it’s a true faith.
  1. Isn’t this essentially the same?
  2. What are the “works” Catholics refer to?
Click to expand...
A faith that come from God causes justification/salvation and leads to good works.

Nothing that comes before or** AFTER** the free gift of faith in those justified causes their justification or earns it .
 
Protestants believe that they are justified by declaring that Jesus is their Savior -nothing can change that-- works are not necessary to have eternal life in heaven.

Catholic’s believe in sanctifing grace -it is the grace that makes one holy to have eternal life in heaven. We receive sanctifing grace through various actions and works…

Here is a link to explain the different graces, and how actions (works) make us holy.

catholic.com/tracts/grace-what-it-is-and-what-it-does
 
mommy_k said:
Protestants believe that they are justified by declaring that Jesus is their Savior -nothing can change that-- works are not necessary to have eternal life in heaven.

Catholic’s believe in sanctifing grace -it is the grace that makes one holy to have eternal life in heaven. We receive sanctifing grace through various actions and works…

Here is a link to explain the different graces, and how actions (works) make us holy.

catholic.com/tracts/grace-what-it-is-and-what-it-does
Click to expand...
While I have recently heard of a hyper-grace movement that seems to say that a vague faith amidst a sinful life can earn salvation, I don’t really think this is the historic position of Protestantism. Martin Luther stated, “We are saved by faith alone, but the faith that saves is never alone.” The historic Protestant position has been to obtain faith in Jesus and this faith will cause evidence of the fruit of the spirit in the faithful.

I think the modern day Catholic position is similar, but they stress the point that works are necessary. I don’t know if they say that works bring faith, while Protestantism says faith brings works. I am not sure. I am actually confused because I think the current positions seem rather similar in many ways. I think that works of penance and indulgences are a difference. I don’t know how that factors in to the explanation.
 
alwayswill said:
A faith that come from God causes justification/salvation and leads to good works.

Nothing that comes before or** AFTER** the free gift of faith in those justified causes their justification or earns it .
Click to expand...
Faith “causes” justification? Are you sure about this? Do you have a Scripture or your Church’s teaching about that?

I understand that God’s good will causes justification.
 
What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him? James 2: 14
(Luther dismissed James as “an Epistle of Straw” since it clearly contradicts the heresy that by faith alone shall we be saved.)
 
aball1035 said:
From Catholics I’ve been told that justification comes through faith and works.

From Protestants I’ve been told that it comes through faith. The person will then produce works after, and this will show it’s a true faith.
  1. Isn’t this essentially the same?
  2. What are the “works” Catholics refer to?
Click to expand...
Just my two cents…
All sides of this debate will produce scripture verses to back their position. This issue has been debated ad nauseam in the past here and elsewhere, but in the end devout Christians of all stripes realize that a genuine Christian believer has both faith and works working in their lives if they want to please God and be a good example for others and be a good witness to non-Christians. That is what Christians should focus on, in my opinion.
 
rcwitness said:
Faith “causes” justification? Are you sure about this? Do you have a Scripture or your Church’s teaching about that?

I understand that God’s good will causes justification.
Click to expand...
Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God–

Galatians 2:16
16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.
 
alwayswill said:
Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God–
Click to expand...
This says “through” faith.
Galatians 2:16
16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.
Click to expand...
This says “by” and not by “works of the law”

Works of faith, are not works of the law.

James 2

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?22You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works.
 
rcwitness said:
This says “through” faith.

This says “by” and not by “works of the law”

Works of faith, are not works of the law.

James 2

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?22You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works.
Click to expand...
From “You Can Understand The Bible” By Peter Kreeft
amazon.com/You-Can-Understand-The-Bible/dp/1586170457#reader_1586170457
page 291:
Quote from page 291;
The apparent contradiction between James, who says that we, like Abraham, are justified by works (2:21), and Paul, who says that we, like Abraham, are justified by faith (Rom.4:3), is explained by looking at the context.
Paul’s context is the relationship between the believer and God, while James’ context is the relationship between the believer and his neighbor.
God sees your faith; your neighbor sees your works.
Faith justifies us before God; works justify us before our neighbors. End quote
 
alwayswill said:
From “You Can Understand The Bible” By Peter Kreeft
amazon.com/You-Can-Understand-The-Bible/dp/1586170457#reader_1586170457
page 291:
Quote from page 291;
The apparent contradiction between James, who says that we, like Abraham, are justified by works (2:21), and Paul, who says that we, like Abraham, are justified by faith (Rom.4:3), is explained by looking at the context.
Paul’s context is the relationship between the believer and God, while James’ context is the relationship between the believer and his neighbor.
God sees your faith; your neighbor sees your works.
Faith justifies us before God; works justify us before our neighbors. End quote
Click to expand...
I’d like to read the article, but from that quote alone, I disagree.

I believe Paul, James, Jesus and the Church all are saying that without works of faith, the faith that was freely given was in vain. Though justified and sanctified by grace, we deny the faith when we do not work.
 
rcwitness said:
I’d like to read the article, but from that quote alone, I disagree.

I believe Paul, James, Jesus and the Church all are saying that without works of faith, the faith that was freely given was in vain. Though justified and sanctified by grace, we deny the faith when we do not work.
Click to expand...
it’s likely, that Peter is recognizing the inseparable nature of loving God and loving neighbor. In this way, I agree with him.
 
aball1035 said:
From Catholics I’ve been told that justification comes through faith and works.

From Protestants I’ve been told that it comes through faith. The person will then produce works after, and this will show it’s a true faith.
  1. Isn’t this essentially the same?
  2. What are the “works” Catholics refer to?
Click to expand...
I forgot the where I got this…but I think this is a starter:

Alister Mcgrath quotes: Reformation Thoughts

Whereas Augustine taught that the sinner is made righteous in justification, Melanchthon taught that he is counted as righteous or pronounced to be righteous. For Augustine, ‘justifying righteousness’ is imparted; for Melanchthon, it is imputed in the sense of being declared or pronounced to be righteous. Melanchthon drew a sharp distinction between the event of being declared righteous and the process of being made righteous, designating the former ‘justification’ and the latter ‘sanctification’ or regeneration.’ For Augustine, these were simply different aspects of the same thing… The importance of this development lies in the fact that it marks a complete break with the teaching of the church up to that point. From the time of Augustine onwards, justification had always been understood to refer to both the event of being declared righteous and the process of being made righteous. Melanchthon’s concept of forensic justification diverged radically from this. As it was taken up by virtually all the major reformers subsequently, it came to represent a standard difference between Protestant and Roman Catholic from then on…The Council of Trent…reaffirmed the views of Augustine on the nature of justification… the concept of forensic justification actually represents a development in Luther’s thought… Trent maintained the medieval tradition, stretching back to Augustine, which saw justification as comprising both an event and a process…

The Catholic tradition, following Augustine, has identified justifying works as those works performed by the regenerate, i.e., the baptized, i.e., the justified. Works do not bring bring about the state of justification–God does this gratuitously in the sacrament of baptism–but they do contribute to our growth in justification. Please note that in the traditional Latin usage, “justification” comprehends initial justification, growth in justification (sanctification), and final justification. Hence it is meaningful for Catholics to speak of works as justifying–not in the sense that they earn God’s favor, not in the sense that they effect the transition from a state of sin to a state of righteousness, but in the sense that they contribute to our growth in holiness and sanctity and thus deepen our communion with the Holy Trinity
 
alwayswill said:
From “You Can Understand The Bible” By Peter Kreeft
amazon.com/You-Can-Understand-The-Bible/dp/1586170457#reader_1586170457
page 291:
Quote from page 291;
The apparent contradiction between James, who says that we, like Abraham, are justified by works (2:21), and Paul, who says that we, like Abraham, are justified by faith (Rom.4:3), is explained by looking at the context.
Paul’s context is the relationship between the believer and God, while James’ context is the relationship between the believer and his neighbor.
God sees your faith; your neighbor sees your works.
Faith justifies us before God; works justify us before our neighbors. End quote
Click to expand...
Do you agree with Peter Kreeft?
 
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