Again, your definition seems to rely upon an organization apart from the right proclamation of the word. That being said, it is the teachings of Peter and the apostles to whom we appeal when discussing our doctrinal differences.
I would agree, doctrine matters. This is why we cannot in good conscience ignore the doctrinal issues that divide us. Again, as I have said, unity is achieved through unity of doctrine.
Umm, no. My view is that the Catholic Church is not only and exclusively found in communion with the Bishop of Rome.
Hodos:
My definition relies on scripture and Tradition
That organization (The Catholic Church) wrote the NT scriptures AND canonized those 27 books AND canonized 46 OT books = 73 books
YOU rely on 66 books. 7 books removed from scripture by the heretic Martin Luther, the father of Protestantism.
So…Re: “the right proclamation of the word”
We can test that anytime you want.
Hodos:
Don’t forget,
Relativism, indifferentism, latitudinarianism etc. are heresies
From Pius IX syllabus of errors
THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS CONDEMNED BY PIUS IX
III. INDIFFERENTISM, LATITUDINARIANISM
Errors in thinking and behaving.
BTW, Error / heresy are synonyms https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/heresy
- Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true. – Allocution “Maxima quidem,” June 9, 1862; Damnatio “Multiplices inter,” June 10, 1851.
- Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation. – Encyclical “Qui pluribus,” Nov. 9, 1846.
- Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ. – Encyclical “Quanto conficiamur,” Aug. 10, 1863, etc.
- Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true Christian religion, in which form it is given to please God equally as in the Catholic Church. –
Encyclical “Noscitis,” Dec. 8, 1849.
We all own it - at least according to the Catholic Church:
TULIPed:
I’m not throwing stones. Regardless of some people’s actions, truth is truth. Truth doesn’t change
Thank you for acknowledging that the teachings of Peter and the apostles is not definitional to your corpus of doctrine. This was my initial point regarding the differences in doctrine.
Again, I am not advocating any “ism” you have stated here.
I think it was Dr David Anders on Called To Communion (EWTN Radio), whom talked about his conversion to the Catholic Church. He was in a well known Protestant Seminary (?) College and they would quote the Church Fathers, but it would be selected quotes and not the entire thing. They were told it was not a good idea to delve into the writings of the fathers on their own or something to that effect. He originally was all about saving Catholics and converting them to Christianity (yes Catholics are Christians). He ended up studying the Church Fathers and he realized they were Catholic in their beliefs. That was one of the things that caused him to become Catholic.
Yup Dr David Anders from the radio program Called to Communion is an example.
What?steve-b:
Thank you for acknowledging that the teachings of Peter and the apostles is not definitional to your corpus of doctrine. This was my initial point regarding the differences in doctrine.
Jerome ultimately agreed with all the books. Luther was an excommunicated heretic
Actually go back and re read your answers. You were advocating relativism
Oh, don’t be over the top. If anything, the claim of universal jurisdiction fits that description. The Bishop of Rome claims he is the greatest.
Was he excommunicated because of his view of the canon? No. So this response is ad hominem.
May I suggest, open the links provided.steve-b:
Oh, don’t be over the top. If anything, the claim of universal jurisdiction fits that description. The Bishop of Rome claims he is the greatest.
I don’t think that is the thought process, however. I think the Catholic belief about the pope is sincere and honest.
You’re better than this, Steve.
His train wreck on scripture (demoting 7 canonical books to non scripture status) came AFTER he was excommunicated.steve-b:
Was he excommunicated because of his view of the canon? No. So this response is ad hominem.
That’s your choice. BTW, The links are from the Greek study bible. It make the point I was using.
Yes. He had a minority CATHOLIC view of the canon, shared by Cajetan and others. No one was excommunicated for that view prior to Trent.
Sort of related to the original question of this thread, I think looking into Church history didn’t initially strike me for how Catholic the Church Fathers’ beliefs were on many of the key points of debate. What struck me was how important the visible institution was. You either submitted to it, or you were deemed a heretic.
That was not the point Jon. You said-adf417:
I disagree. The seven councils are such a resource of authoritative determinations in the Church. We’ve had nothing like them since.
If you think the church didn’t look weak and confused at the time of Nicea my great respect for you diminishes Jon, well, not really! :crazy_face: but i sure hope you reconsider that statment.
