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OneTrueCathApos
Guest
How do you non-Catholics feel out there when you profess the Apostles Creed while in your church when it comes to saying "“We believe in the Holy Catholic church…”?
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rick43235
Guest
I was raised in the Lutheran Church. The version of the Apostle’s Creed in our hymnal read, “Holy Christian Church.” A later version of the hymnal read, “holy catholic church” (small c) with a footnote saying that “holy Christian church,” while not preferred, was also acceptable.
As I recall, having the word “catholic” in the creed didn’t inspire any particular feeling.
As I recall, having the word “catholic” in the creed didn’t inspire any particular feeling.
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grampben
Guest
I feel a stirring in my heart. It is my statement of faith, and a statement which unites us all in the body of christ.
catholic means universal, I’m OK with that.
catholic means universal, I’m OK with that.
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With_Questions
Guest
No problems with that.
Here is the definition of Catholic per the dictionary:
We just go with definition 1a.
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Magna_Maximus
Guest
Not an issue for me, Catholic Church means Universal Church.
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NDfan
Guest
The creed states one Holy catholic and Apostolic church. Not THE Holy Catholic. We have no problem with it because catholic simply means the universal church of Christ which we are a part of. Apostolic simply means teachings of the Apostles which again I would hope all Christian churches adhere to. Not sure what you are looking for here.
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NDfan
Guest
Jon I’m familiar with what the creed says. My point was that it doesn’t state THE Holy Catholic church. Meaning Catholic with a Capital “C” given that many people see that as a label for the Roman Catholic church. It’s a small “c” meaning universal. Actually the original Latin version has a lowercase “c” as well. The intent of the OP is to demonstrate that the creed refers to the Catholic church as we know it today.
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thirdn6
Guest
What’s the point in asking?
They don’t mean to believe both her existence AND her teachings like we do in the Apostle’s Creed.
They only mean to believe in the existence of a catholic Church (Nicene Creed).
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catholic_daddy
Guest
I love the Apostles’ Creed. I have always known that ‘Catholic’ means ‘universal’ and have always distinguished “the Holy CatholicvChurch” from “the Roman Catholic Church”. “The Holy Catholic Church” to me has always been the universal Church composed of all saved people. Originally, the early version of the Creed read “Holy Christian Church”.
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Napsack
Guest
The Nicene Creed doesn’t say One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. It reads, one holy, catholic and apostolic Church. We know exactly what was meant in Nicea and what we profess every Sunday, so I feel Grrrrreat everytime I profess my faith by saying the Nicene Creed!
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MDK
Guest
I’m not Protestant (by the grace of God), but want to throw in perspecitve on this in context of the Nicene Creed. They distort it to mean something it does not. There can only be a partial appreciation of any of these terms. One cannot seek the truth, and forever remain Protestant.
For instance, one - they distort the four marks of the Church to mean something other than the doctrines, sacraments and authority of the One Catholic Church. Is this any surprise to those who know that faith system (like a multitude of ships with faulty rudders, and/or poor captains)?
Holy - this relates to the protection of Christ and does not teach error, has valid doctrine and Sacraments of Christ. Every Protestant church, and non-Catholic religion teaches error to a greater or lesser degree, has invalid or missing sacraments.
Catholic - it did come from the Greek word for universal. However, it is not a loose band of thousands of interpreters, but worlwide with one visible shepherd in the office of Peter. This is the way God built His Church.
Apostolic - The Bishops of the Catholic Church have an organic link to the Apostles in their mission, and so are valid and licit. These Bishops in union with the visible shepherd (Prime Minister) constitute a valid teaching authority that will not lead the Church astray in faith and morals. Those who reject these Bishops also reject Christ.
These four marks are meant to be taken together, and not separate and not watered down, distorted, or cheapened.
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grampben
Guest
Here we go again.
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MDK
Guest
My personal desire for you for instance, is that you come into the infallible teachings, true and real Sacraments. This is my desire for all people who seek God. This is by the grace of God. It is done by the Holy Spirit, and not by anything I will say or not say.
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MDK
Guest
That you feel that way is unfortunate. Any person who really desires the truth would examine what I wrote, rather than blaming me. That you are comfortable with bending or breaking God’s eighth Commandment doesn’t help things. I forgive you for bearing false witness against me, even without you asking. I’ve already told you the way in which it was intended. However, here is more.
I am a Catholic by the grace of God, and not by my own singular efforts. If I were to use my own singular efforts ignoring God, I would probably not be Catholic and perhaps be interpreting on my own one of the thousands of ships adrift at sea.
Would you be comfortable with words of deceit and twisting of truth as long as they are “polite”. This to me is real hatred of another.
St Augustine said sometimes hatred seems sweet, while love must show itself severe. The severe truth may not pleasant to you now, perhaps. If you better understood what I meant and accepted it in the spirit in which it was meant, you may feel differently. Some will show offense to try to keep others from telling the fuller truth. If you’re doing that, sorry, we can’t do anythng but the full truth as we know it.
Why do you seek to blame us that you are not in God’s Church? You were not when you came in here. If you don’t like the truth, but prefer your own, then you really won’t like the Catholic Church anyway.
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thirdn6
Guest
OTCA,
I know. No protestant can honestly answer your question- what they feel…?
Because, for them to say they “believe in the holy catholic Church” as simply meaning they “believe THERE IS a universal Church” is to us RCs not sufficient and nonsensical.
It is like saying, “There is a Constitution in Egypt. Period.” We can profess to believe it exist- nothing more. We don’t care what it is nor we are bound by it because we don’t really belong there- we are not Egyptians. But, hey, we can all claim to be Egyptians, can’t we? Don’t matter if the real Egyptians know we’re but fakes, right?
Therefore, everytime they recite the Apostle’s creed either they are *lying to themselves *or they just want to *deceive others *by proclaiming themselves as catholics. Simple as that.
To believe what the creed says is to believe ALL that is in the Catholic Faith. Because she is the pillar of truth, guided by the Holy Spirit, and at all times safeguards those truths. That is why we believe.
I know. No protestant can honestly answer your question- what they feel…?
Because, for them to say they “believe in the holy catholic Church” as simply meaning they “believe THERE IS a universal Church” is to us RCs not sufficient and nonsensical.
It is like saying, “There is a Constitution in Egypt. Period.” We can profess to believe it exist- nothing more. We don’t care what it is nor we are bound by it because we don’t really belong there- we are not Egyptians. But, hey, we can all claim to be Egyptians, can’t we? Don’t matter if the real Egyptians know we’re but fakes, right?
Therefore, everytime they recite the Apostle’s creed either they are *lying to themselves *or they just want to *deceive others *by proclaiming themselves as catholics. Simple as that.
To believe what the creed says is to believe ALL that is in the Catholic Faith. Because she is the pillar of truth, guided by the Holy Spirit, and at all times safeguards those truths. That is why we believe.
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With_Questions
Guest
One of these times I am going to go through the posters here and classify them as condescending or not condescending. If this forum is predominantly condescending, then I am out here. Why should I have to put up with this nonsense when in reality I am a guest of these forums.
This, ladies and gentlement, boys and girls, is exhibit A for a condescending post.
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