How do Protestants rationalize King Henry VIII, and his selfish non-spiritual motivation?

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Agreed. But typo, substitute Anne Boleyn, for Catherine of Aragon.

GKC
Thank you for the correction. After “divorcing” his legitimate wife, Catherine of Aragon, he “married” Anne Boleyn in January of 1533. I feel really stupid over that typo, having been interested in this history since childhood, and having recently read a book for about the wives of Henry VIII for a Reformation history course.
 
Thank you for the correction. After “divorcing” his legitimate wife, Catherine of Aragon, he “married” Anne Boleyn in January of 1533. I feel really stupid over that typo, having been interested in this history since childhood, and having recently read a book for about the wives of Henry VIII for a Reformation history course.
Everybody makes a slip of the fingers from time to time.

Hank and his problems is a long term interest of mine, too; ten years or so. I note the “divorce” but it was a decree of nullity he sought. Common, in hias day. Divorce was unheard of.

GKC
 
History is complicated…
Everybody makes a slip of the fingers from time to time.

Hank and his problems is a long term interest of mine, too; ten years or so. I note the “divorce” but it was a decree of nullity he sought. Common, in hias day. Divorce was unheard of.

GKC
 
Actually, it is more likely that it would difficult to find any student of history or historian who will agree with this statement. You have failed to make any remotely convincing case that the Reformation on the Continent developed from or was dependent upon the Reformation in England. Henry “married” Catherine of Aragon in 1533 and the Act of Supremacy, in which he made himself the head of the Church of England, was passed in 1534. By this time, more than a decade and a half had passed since Luther’s 95 Theses were written in 1517. Furthermore, Luther was excommunicated in 1521-13 years prior to the passage of the Act of Supremacy, which was also preceded by both the Marburg Colloquy and the Augsburg Confession. You have grossly exaggerated the role of Henry VII in the Reformation on the Continent, with which he held no sympathies, and which he actually opposed. I also think you exaggerate the power of England during the reign of Henry. Actually, England would become much more powerful under the reign of his daughter, Elizabeth, than it was during Henry’s reign.

So what you are saying that had Henry VIII stayed Catholic and never broke from England then Protestantism would still be the widespread religion it is today?:confused:
 
The Borgias didn’t start Catholicism as you rightly pointed out, and it survived despite their corruption. And Henry VIII didn’t start Protestantism, though his actions significantly strengthened it, perhaps by divine providence? It wouldn’t be the first time God had used a person of dubious character in His plan. Constantine comes to mind, as well as a number of OT figures. And of course, neither Henry VIII nor the Borgias started Christianity; it was already strong when they came along, though then as now it still had its problems.

Constantine reportedly put forth the Catholic Church because of spiritual reasons. Henry VIII had no spiritual reasons for adopting the beliefs of the Reformation. Since there are many a mad man who will say they are acting in the name of God, I think it better that we stay with historical facts.
 
My husband is Church of England and he tells me that Henry VIII was completely right and that his divorce should have been allowed because there are only so many ex-wives you can murder and bury under patios :frighten: I’m hoping he is joking but just to be safe I’ve since stopped quizzing him on this particular point!

I think to be honest many of them just dont know where the church began or why, i know a few people that actually thought that England had always been CofE and that Catholics had come over with one of the many nations that have invaded England and those that do know their history are taking the view that the church is right for them so why should it matter why it started.
Just curious. Did you hire a contractor to tear out you existing patios. I’m just saying. You might want to check under it.😃
 
Actually, it is more likely that it would difficult to find any student of history or historian who will agree with this statement. You have failed to make any remotely convincing case that the Reformation on the Continent developed from or was dependent upon the Reformation in England. Henry “married” Catherine of Aragon in 1533 and the Act of Supremacy, in which he made himself the head of the Church of England, was passed in 1534. By this time, more than a decade and a half had passed since Luther’s 95 Theses were written in 1517. Furthermore, Luther was excommunicated in 1521-13 years prior to the passage of the Act of Supremacy, which was also preceded by both the Marburg Colloquy and the Augsburg Confession. You have grossly exaggerated the role of Henry VII in the Reformation on the Continent, with which he held no sympathies, and which he actually opposed. I also think you exaggerate the power of England during the reign of Henry. Actually, England would become much more powerful under the reign of his daughter, Elizabeth, than it was during Henry’s reign.

So what you are saying that had Henry VIII stayed Catholic and never broke from England then Protestantism would still be the widespread religion it is today?:confused:
Yes, I would say that. Protestantism likely would have been less widespread in England (although perhaps not, given that there were influences from Continental Protestantism that helped bring about further Protestantization of England during the reigns of Edward VI and Elizabeth I) had Henry not have broken with Rome.

The Continent itself is a different matter. Protestantism on the Continent neither developed from nor was dependent upon Henry’s beliefs or actions. Rather, it was the case that Protestantism in England was influenced by the Protestantism of the Continent. Henry was disobedient and schismatic, but he despised Protestant theology. He had no use for the eucharistic theologies of the Reformers, and he absolutely despised Luther’s teachings concerning justification by faith alone. Given his antiphathy towards Luther, he would have only despised the theologies of Calvin and the Radical Reformers even more. On the other hand, the influences of both Calvin and Zwingli on certain factions within the Church of England are well known.

Also, I simply can’t see how Protestantism on the Continent in any way depended politically or militarily on the Protestantization of England. On the Continent, areas became majority Protestant or remained majority Catholic largely on the basis of the whims of the rulers. France, Spain, Portugal, and Italy remained solidly Catholic because their rulers remained Catholic. What would become the Netherlands and the Scandinavian countries became majority Protestant because their rulers became Protestant. Those portions of the Holy Roman Empire whose princes became Protestant tended to become majority Protestant; otherwise, they tended to remain majority Catholic.
 
😛 I had no idea!? This was the first I’d heard? 😃
Oh, my, yes. Remiss of me, of course. No idea how many books on Hank, his period, the Tudors, immediately related stuff, I have, in total, but there are around 125 not packed away, out on the shelves. Latest I bought is a bio of Katherine Swynford, Duchess of Lancaster, and John of Gaunt’s mistress/wife. Hanky-Panky, as usual.

GKC
 
Oh, my, yes. remiss of me, of course. No idea how many books on Hank, his period, the Tudors, immediately related stuff, I have, in total, but there are around 125 not packed away, out on the shelves. Latest I bought is a bio of Katherine Swynford, Duchess of Lancaster, and John of Gaunt’s mistress/wife. Hanky-Panky, as usual.

GKC
I’ve been watching the Tudors on showtime the last few weeks. It has shown me how spotty my history about this period really is. Have you had a chance to catch this program.? I do wonder what you think.
 
You do know I’m kidding I hope! :p:blush: I’m joking because you say “this is a hobby of mine.” I’ve read it for like three years now and just like giving you a bad time, Jim! 😛
Oh, my, yes. Remiss of me, of course. No idea how many books on Hank, his period, the Tudors, immediately related stuff, I have, in total, but there are around 125 not packed away, out on the shelves. Latest I bought is a bio of Katherine Swynford, Duchess of Lancaster, and John of Gaunt’s mistress/wife. Hanky-Panky, as usual.

GKC
 
I’ve been watching the Tudors on showtime the last few weeks. It has shown me how spotty my history about this period really is. Have you had a chance to catch this program.? I do wonder what you think.
I think I’ve watched maybe 5-10 mins, of 2 shows, total; one bit was during the hearing before Wolsey and Warham (I think). I didn’t see anything egregiously wrong, assuming I would have spotted such, but that’s an inadequate sample. But it’s a soap opera, basically, and I wasn’t interested.

Not watching the Borgia Popes series, either.

GKC
 
You do know I’m kidding I hope! :p:blush: I’m joking because you say “this is a hobby of mine.” I’ve read it for like three years now and just like giving you a bad time, Jim! 😛
Oh, that’s a relief. I was almost sure I had mentioned it before.

But memory…you know …fades. or…something.

GKC
 
I think I’ve watched maybe 5-10 mins, of 2 shows, total; one bit was during the hearing before Wolsey and Warham (I think). I didn’t see anything egregiously wrong, assuming I would have spotted such, but that’s an inadequate sample. But it’s a soap opera, basically, and I wasn’t interested.

Not watching the Borgia Popes series, either.

GKC
The female of the house-my mom- has been watching it and wants me to watch it with her because I am supposed to be an expert on all things religious…but I am NOT about the English reformation. I am learning as I go. She wants me to answer questions about what is going on. Of course the best answers I have I got from your’s a Gurney’s posts, not kidding…but I won’t tell her that because it makes me sound smart.
 
The female of the house-my mom- has been watching it and wants me to watch it with her because I am supposed to be an expert on all things religious…but I am NOT about the English reformation. I am learning as I go. She wants me to answer questions about what is going on. Of course the best answers I have I got from your’s a Gurney’s posts, not kidding…but I won’t tell her that because it makes me sound smart.
If you want one book that does the best job of dealing with Henry, it’s J. J. Scarisbrick’s HENRY VIII. It’s one reason I can sound smart, sort of, to myself, on that subject, anyway.

GKC
 
Your memory? Your memory is outstanding normally. I’m shocked you don’t remember the fact that I’ve ribbed you for saying “this is a hobby of mine” like 200 times on here! 200of my 8,000 plus posts are dedicated to “really? a hobby of yours?” razzes! :eek:😛

My memory and ability to mentally process anything at this part of the year are both seriously impaired. I’m dealing with unloading 28 hormonal, wacky sixth graders. 18 school days left till sweet liberated freedom! 😛 Some of the stuff these kids have been saying and doing, the drama, oh man, I think it would shock most posters in here, no joke…What I see and hear at that school during a week’s time…mercy…

I’m convinced that being an educator has actually increased free radical production in my cells! 😃
Oh, that’s a relief. I was almost sure I had mentioned it before.

But memory…you know …fades. or…something.

GKC
 
Your memory? Your memory is outstanding normally. I’m shocked you don’t remember the fact that I’ve ribbed you for saying “this is a hobby of mine” like 200 times on here! 200of my 8,000 plus posts are dedicated to “really? a hobby of yours?” razzes! :eek:😛

My memory and ability to mentally process anything at this part of the year are both seriously impaired. I’m dealing with unloading 28 hormonal, wacky sixth graders. 18 school days left till sweet liberated freedom! 😛 Some of the stuff these kids have been saying and doing, the drama, oh man, I think it would shock most posters in here, no joke…What I see and hear at that school during a week’s time…mercy…

I’m convinced that being an educator has actually increased free radical production in my cells! 😃
Now…who are you again?

GKC
 
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