How do the concept of aliens effect catholicism?

[DaveBj]

As much as I have loved science fiction (and especially “first contact” stories) in my life, I have to agree with those who say that in the absence of any real aliens, all this is useless speculation.

That said, I do have an unwritten story in my head in which we are contacted by an alien race. They have been searching the universe for thousands of hears, and we are the first sentient life they have discovered. In the course of time it comes out that in the whole history of their civilization since their creation, no one has ever sinned, and consequently no one has ever died or been injured or sick, and they have no conception of sin or rebellion against God. Needless to see, each individual has a close relationship with the Boss. When they meet us, they are puzzled because they can see an internal light in each other, but they can see it in only a few of us.

 

[Linnyo]

That’s an easy question - it doesn’t affect Catholocism

 

[freesoulhope]

Lets hypothesize that eventually we start intergalactic contact with aliens to the point of trade and alliances. So now what? what position would that put catholic faith?

Lets add another volitile substance to the mix

What if there also communists.

 

[freesoulhope]

so this is mere foolish speculation.

Whats wrong with speculating, and how is it foolish?

 

[freesoulhope]

And before anyone says its arrogant to say we are the only ones. its not. What is wrong to be the delight of your Fathers eye? Its just our unworthyness speaking, and we shouldnt listen to him.

Its arrogant to say we are the only one.

 

[freesoulhope]

They could not avoid a fall, unless they were robots.
.

I don’t think thats actually true. For if your right, then we had no choice but to fall. For the fall to be valid, it must be the case that Adam and Eve had a fair choice, and freely chose to do otherwise, with out any determining factors involved. Otherwise theres no freewill.

Adam and Eve was not wounded before the fall.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Its arrogant to say we are the only one.

Why?

If we are made in His image, and He thought of us and knows the number of hairs on our heads, if He thinks so much of us, then why would there be others?

Its not arrogant, just the acceptance of being loved.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

I don’t think thats actually true. For if your right, then we had no choice but to fall. For the fall to be valid, it must be the case that Adam and Eve had a fair choice, and freely chose to do otherwise, with out any determining factors involved. Otherwise theres no freewill.

Adam and Eve was not wounded before the fall.

Maybe I wasnt clear, if they didnt have free choice, then there would not have been a fall, because the opportunity would not have been presented, because free will would not have been a option. But God allowed it, knowing they would take it.

btw just because He knew, has no bearing on Adams choice. Basically God knew He was in for a fight, but went ahead anyway.

Is that more clear?? sorry bout that.

 

[freesoulhope]

Maybe I wasnt clear, if they didnt have free choice, then there would not have been a fall, because the opportunity would not have been presented, because free will would not have been a option. But God allowed it, knowing they would take it.

btw just because He knew, has no bearing on Adams choice. Basically God knew He was in for a fight, but went ahead anyway.

Is that more clear?? sorry bout that.

Cool:thumbsup:

 

[freesoulhope]

Why?

If we are made in His image, and He thought of us and knows the number of hairs on our heads, if He thinks so much of us, then why would there be others?

Its not arrogant, just the acceptance of being loved.

You make it sound as if it would be unloving of God to create other beings other then us humans. Gods love is to big for us to have all of it to are selves; if there are other creatures that God loves, then we should be joyous and content with are fair share; which is more then enough. I would be over the moon if a creature from another world visted me. First thing i would say is…" do you want tea or coffee?"

Think of it like this. We are made in his Image; that has nothing to do with what planet we are born on, or how many “us” will populate any given planet that God has actualised. What does the word “us” mean, and who is it that we presume to have the authority to exclude from that word? Is not Gods love all encompassing? What about the angels? Are they not made in Gods image?

Peace.

 

[Abbadon]

Lets add another volatile substance to the mix

What if there also communists.

There is no way they would be communist. because communisum is epically flawed and there is no way through such a reigeme that people could build any form of faster than light travel. Most likely the governing body would be democratic… I can’t wait until we find and harness tachyons.

 

[freesoulhope]

What about the angels? Are they not made in Gods image?

Peace.

I think this may be an error

 

[freesoulhope]

There is no way they would be communist. because communisum is epically flawed and there is no way through such a reigeme that people could build any form of faster than light travel. Most likely the governing body would be democratic… I can’t wait until we find and harness tachyons.

I think this is an assumption, based in a world where capitalism and communism is at odds. It seems to me that the faliure of such a system, “economicaly”, is dependent on certain factors that seems to be inherent in human sin, rather then the system itself. Thats not to say, however, that communism is a perfect system; but neither is capitalism. At one time Capitilism was necessary; but now its destroying our world. Its unlikely that we will leave are solor system due to our sins and the competitive nature of Capitalism (which seems to incorage sin, more then bennifit humanity). Therefore i see no reason why a technologically advanced race would be capitalists.

More, likely, such an advanced race would not be driven by the aquisition of weath; rather, its more likley that there would be no economy system at all in such a world. Instead, they would share everything and do everything for bennefit of the whole. The driving force behind their people would be to better oneself, technologically, scientifically, socailly, possibly spiritually or otherwise. The only way that such a society would break down, is if the agenda is to compete, dominate, aquire wealth, power, sex and everything else the capitalist system has to offer to the human being.

Its likley that if such a race were to visit our world, they would look upon us as fools when they see that a buisness man would rather waste tons of food for the aquisition of profit, power and prestige, rather then feed the starvin and house the homeless.

The Alien race might contact those who they deem worthy of their presense, but would soon leave are solor system in search for something more interesting, rather then watch humanbeings squable over resources; things that they should be happy to share with eachother.

Peace.

 

[zjl56]

This is pure speculation, but what if technology does allow for people to come back from the dead? It seems possible that scientific advances will improve, will the person be considered entirely different since in a sense life has been created there?

 

[Kitty_Chan]

You make it sound as if it would be unloving of God to create other beings other then us humans. Gods love is to big for us to have all of it to are selves; if there are other creatures that God loves, then we should be joyous and content with are fair share; which is more then enough. I would be over the moon if a creature from another world visted me. First thing i would say is…" do you want tea or coffee?"
Think of it like this. We are made in his Image; that has nothing to do with what planet we are born on, or how many “us” will populate any given planet that God has actualised. What does the word “us” mean, and who is it that we presume to have the authority to exclude from that word? Is not Gods love all encompassing? What about the angels? Are they not made in Gods image?

Well, if God did create other beings, of course He could love them too as well as us. But I still go back to whats wrong with just us? why does there need to be anybody else??

just thinking from that view? It does however put pressure on us, doesnt it?

Perhaps when He comes back He may create more beings for the universe, who knows, whats in store, aint gonna be boring as some think we can be sure of that. (Ive heard naysayers state what you going to do sit and play a harp) even so that doesnt sound bad anyway.

I saw your correction on Angels btw. And thinking of them, we already share His Love with them.

and there is the other lot who could have had His Love, but decided to mess it up and try and drag us with them.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

This is pure speculation, but what if technology does allow for people to come back from the dead? It seems possible that scientific advances will improve, will the person be considered entirely different since in a sense life has been created there?

I see why you say that, since everyones thinking but it may be a separate thread,??

I think you have to look at God as Creator, it depends on how you come back from the dead.

If man makes a Frankenstein type person, or freezes and thaws, there is fine lines there. And Im not convinced man is going to achieve it, we just dont know the secret receipe. Because Christ holds the keys to life and death, I think its just illogical to think we can handle it.

Now, if its Christ raising us, then it is gonna happen, we are meant to live, just need to choose our residence.

 

[Benadam]

Now that is interesting, I think youre getting at made man in Our Image, right? Our Image wouldnt be multiple, that doesnt make sense.

If there was anyone there, then the previous thoughts apply. But when hit with this last one, the thoughts stay where they belong as story lines.

Exactly. Not only the image of God but also His likeness. My first statement makes the point that alieness as we are able to conceive of it is really humanity in another skin and a true alieness would not require this discussion at all.

 

[Renatus]

Words can’t hide from their own terms. What is an “alien” “alienated from” if he is an alien?

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Exactly. Not only the image of God but also His likeness. My first statement makes the point that alieness as we are able to conceive of it is really humanity in another skin and a true alieness would not require this discussion at all.

Right, I had not thought about the fact we cannot actually imagine aliens because if we can then they are not alien, do I have you correct? (actually both of you)

Theres been tons of speculation in stories, film and “experiences”.

We kinda know what God looks like if we look in a mirror, and Im thinking aliens are generally distorted humans, or Im leading my thoughts, what do you think?

ps should come clean here, this is a touchy subject for me. I thought Id put it all to rest at His feet, but some other bit of info comes up, every so often. Im curious if this is another one to put to rest, its a angle I hadnt thought of.

 

[Renatus]

I’m just trying to figure that if one means an “alien in the land sojourning among you” as in Old Testament history and law, one means one thing, but today the term “alien” seems to mean something other than just a foreigner or a stranger. It seems to be a new level of alien or a new category of alienation. If there be intelligent “alien” life that is alienated from the friendship of the angels, saints, and of God, then we know what that means. Demonic forms and the damned and deceptions and not true good will. In contrast to “peace on earth to men of good will.”
People’s imaginations are affected by a lot of corrupt and occult influences and projections through entertainment and the media today, and people sometimes have great imagination but little formation. They’re easily led and influenced. Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and then later the radiation affects on young nuclear victims in Kazakhstan have helped create the fantasy projections of the images typical of Roswell and that type of U.F.O. motif I suspect. It combines with people’s temptations to projection and fantasy I suspect. Also we have such a clandestine government that works on so many “X” files projects and a media that encourages the “aliens from Mars” and outer space. A lot of it seems part excitement and part paranoia to me. A lot of manipulation and little truth or logic. To say the least, the aliens presented at “alien delis and subshops” and the like around town hint at a contradiction of Catholic dogmas of Jesus and Mary, in my opinion. Do aliens pray the rosary?