How do the concept of aliens effect catholicism?

[Benadam]

Right, I had not thought about the fact we cannot actually imagine aliens because if we can then they are not alien, do I have you correct? (actually both of you)

Theres been tons of speculation in stories, film and “experiences”.

We kinda know what God looks like if we look in a mirror, and Im thinking aliens are generally distorted humans, or Im leading my thoughts, what do you think?

ps should come clean here, this is a touchy subject for me. I thought Id put it all to rest at His feet, but some other bit of info comes up, every so often. Im curious if this is another one to put to rest, its a angle I hadnt thought of.

yes you got it. Maybe this will help too. Genesis God made the heavens and the earth. What does earth mean here?. God had yet to even materialize anything yet. So earth here means all matter in creation and is not limited to our particular globe. God made man out of the ‘stuff’ of the earth. If our scope is widened to incude all matter as earth then there is no such thing as alien life.
This truth is proved philosophically by the fact that it cannot be conceived.

Any alien life that may happen to be discovered as we expand our ‘horizon’ will fit the pattern already revealed as it did when the men who explored the world and found new lands on this planet did.

 

[Benadam]

Do aliens pray the rosary?

If they do I feel a familial bond with them

 

[Kitty_Chan]

, then we know what that means. Demonic forms and the damned and deceptions and not true good will. In contrast to “peace on earth to men of good will.”

nicely put, yea we are speaking of these aliens, although we are not always kind to aliens in the land, but that can be another thread.

People’s imaginations are affected by a lot of corrupt and occult influences and projections through entertainment and the media today, and people sometimes have great imagination but little formation. They’re easily led and influenced. Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and then later the radiation affects on young nuclear victims in Kazakhstan have helped create the fantasy projections of the images typical of Roswell and that type of U.F.O. motif I suspect.

havent heard about the radiation affects what about that? I do note that Russia has a Area 51 as well, What part of the world are you in?

Corrupt influences yes, those can be led by such statements as you are arrogant if you think you are the only ones. Leads to, you are not worthy, there must be others, And we dont want the others to be, well bad and capture us. Instead they must be nice, and if nice, much more advanced, and if advanced smarter, and smarter well then, they could even save us?? out of this place

we have such a clandestine government that works on so many “X” files projects and a media that encourages the “aliens from Mars” and outer space. A lot of it seems part excitement and part paranoia to me. A lot of manipulation and little truth or logic.

Every so ofter the alien operation gets another rerun to stir the masses to believe.

To say the least, the aliens presented at “alien delis and subshops” and the like around town hint at a contradiction of Catholic dogmas of Jesus and Mary, in my opinion. Do aliens pray the rosary?

ya lost me here round town? You north of Vegas? and how (Im not cathollic) does it contradict??

 

[Kitty_Chan]

yes you got it. Maybe this will help too. Genesis God made the heavens and the earth. What does earth mean here?. God had yet to even materialize anything yet. So earth here means all matter in creation and is not limited to our particular globe. God made man out of the ‘stuff’ of the earth. If our scope is widened to incude all matter as earth then there is no such thing as alien life.

I know, there isnt, just so Im clear to you. Its nice to hear more logic from scripture. Really hadnt thought of that angle, its a blessing, thank you.

This truth is proved philosophically by the fact that it cannot be conceived.
Any alien life that may happen to be discovered as we expand our ‘horizon’ will fit the pattern already revealed as it did when the men who explored the world and found new lands on this planet did.

I could give it in this light, as we discover another deep sea fish, we didnt know was there. We could discover a thing on Mars but I doubt it and I dont wanna be a downer. But the underlying theme in most space travel is to find out where we came from, etc. so I find it a waste of time a taking our eyes off of the prize, the One we are actually looking for, Who is under our noses, just like the deep sea fish, just waiting to be found.

 

[freesoulhope]

This is pure speculation, but what if technology does allow for people to come back from the dead? It seems possible that scientific advances will improve, will the person be considered entirely different since in a sense life has been created there?

I love speculating, so I have given you my full attention.

The "Objective You"

People on earth have been brought back from the dead, by heart massaging and resuscitation, and they have remained the same person, so long as no damage has been done to the brain. But once the body organs obtain irreversible damage or degrades, there is a point of no return which is impossible to come back from. As far as creating a “new person” is concerned, this is impossible, if you are talking about the “Objective-You”; but you can change the “Subjective-You”, because the “Subjective-You” is the software that you have “personally” added on to the “Objective you”; Your Hardware. You was already an “Objective-Person” before you had any memories. A Person has to exist before any memory can be actualised and absorbed in to the personality. For example, you could lose all of your memories, and people change the personalities all the time; however, they are the same “Objective-Person”. The Law of Cause and Affect is Absolute for every facet of macro-reality.

Infinite possbilities

It may be that aliens, somehow, can preserve a dead person to an extent that they can be brought back, hours after heart failure.
Again, this all depends on the nature of mind; if the mind is material, then maybe something can be done about it; but if the mind is immaterial, that is a dimension of reality in which we have no authority. It may be that we can keep the body alive, but if the mind is gone, then it’s gone; and there’s nothing we can do about it but prey.

However; ourselves and every other function in reality, even the vast abyss of space, appears to be dependent on the expansion of time (the universal lubricant); if the Grays could build an artificial-dimension of space, outside of which time has no command, then maybe, just maybe, the time-space inside such a dimension could be made relative to the rest of the universe and even stopped with out effecting the space-time of our universe. If something like that were possible, then you could, in theory, put somebody in such a dimension, and have billions of years go by with out affecting or degrading the organism inside. They say that time is the fire in which we burn, but in such a dimension, time would have no meaning; it has no teeth there.

Such a device would require a being to have the power to shape space time, and quite possibly “a removing of ones self from the known universe”; which is why I think that it is highly unlikely anyone could harness such technological powers, even if it can be done in theory.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

free soul

whats the source on those articles?

and is this something your bringing up or is it your belief?

 

[mlchance]

In case this answer hasn’t already come up: The concept of aliens doesn’t affect Catholicism.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Ziggamafu]

So an atheist walks up to this Catholic, right? And the atheist goes, “Hey! All that Fatima mumbo-jumbo? That was a UFO!”
To which the Catholic replies, “Cool! Catholic martians!”

…kidding aside, the only thing along these lines that I’ve seriously wondered about is how the 2nd coming will affect people that live in colonies on the moon, mars, or wherever. A mining colony on the moon may be seen within the next thirty years. Obviously the 2nd coming would still occur. I just fantasize about whether or not it will be experienced differently (even if only on a visual level) by people not on planet earth. And of course that is all questions such as these serve: entertaining fantasy.

 

[porthos11]

I would think that aliens are not human, and therefore are not entitled to the faith. It therefore neither contradicts the faith nor imposes an obligation on us to evangelize, since they cannot be validly baptized.

I might think though that if the aliens are biologically compatible with humans and there happens to be offspring, then the offspring will be a descendant of Adam, and therefore have a human soul, therefore entitled to Baptism (although the thought of a human mating with a non-human kinda creeps me out).

As I posted on another thread: Sarek would not be entitled to Baptism. But Spock would.

Worf would not be entitled to baptism either. But K’heleyr would (half human) and Alexander (quarter human).

That’s all speculation though. I’m sure the Church will burn the bridge when it gets there.

 

[bobzills]

It wouldn’t contradict our faith. Suppose there are intelligent life out there. I know God is capable to creating others, though their salvation will probably be different.

Wasn’t Giordano Bruno tied to a pole naked and burned alive at the stake on February 17, 1600? One of his heresies what that the sun was just another star, and that there were other stars that were suns with their own planetary systems and possibly their own life?

 

[Kitty_Chan]

…kidding aside, the only thing along these lines that I’ve seriously wondered about is how the 2nd coming will affect people that live in colonies on the moon, mars, or wherever. A mining colony on the moon may be seen within the next thirty years. Obviously the 2nd coming would still occur. I just fantasize about whether or not it will be experienced differently (even if only on a visual level) by people not on planet earth. And of course that is all questions such as these serve: entertaining fantasy.

This is one of the things thats brought up for the Rapture (to start Im undecided about the end, Im a whatever sensitlist)

Anyway, if people were raptured then a convienent way to explain dissaperances is to say they were taken by ufo’s.

However it will happen it is mind boggling, because of what you said and then there is those who are passed before us etc, gonna be a sight to see.

 

[utunumsint]

This is one of the things thats brought up for the Rapture (to start Im undecided about the end, Im a whatever sensitlist)

Anyway, if people were raptured then a convienent way to explain dissaperances is to say they were taken by ufo’s.

However it will happen it is mind boggling, because of what you said and then there is those who are passed before us etc, gonna be a sight to see.

To quote William Shatner as Captain Kirk in Star Trek V: “What would God…dramatic pause…need…another dramatic pause…with a starship?”

I just had to say that Carry on.

Ut

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Well now, hmm if it was the rapture scenario

then those left would be the undecided as it were

those gone would have been believers

and Shatner would have been right

the left behind would have to figure that out.

Logical perhaps

ps excellent Captain Kirk, I could really feel the whole moment

 

[freesoulhope]

free soul

whats the source on those articles?

and is this something your bringing up or is it your belief?

what are you talking about ?

 

[Kitty_Chan]

I love speculating, so I have given you my full attention.

The "Objective You"

People on earth have been brought back from the dead, by heart massaging and resuscitation, and they have remained the same person, so long as no damage has been done to the brain. But once the body organs obtain irreversible damage or degrades, there is a point of no return which is impossible to come back from. As far as creating a “new person” is concerned, this is impossible, if you are talking about the “Objective-You”; but you can change the “Subjective-You”, because the “Subjective-You” is the software that you have “personally” added on to the “Objective you”; Your Hardware. You was already an “Objective-Person” before you had any memories. A Person has to exist before any memory can be actualised and absorbed in to the personality. For example, you could lose all of your memories, and people change the personalities all the time; however, they are the same “Objective-Person”. The Law of Cause and Affect is Absolute for every facet of macro-reality.

Infinite possbilities

It may be that aliens, somehow, can preserve a dead person to an extent that they can be brought back, hours after heart failure.
Again, this all depends on the nature of mind; if the mind is material, then maybe something can be done about it; but if the mind is immaterial, that is a dimension of reality in which we have no authority. It may be that we can keep the body alive, but if the mind is gone, then it’s gone; and there’s nothing we can do about it but prey.

However; ourselves and every other function in reality, even the vast abyss of space, appears to be dependent on the expansion of time (the universal lubricant); if the Grays could build an artificial-dimension of space, outside of which time has no command, then maybe, just maybe, the time-space inside such a dimension could be made relative to the rest of the universe and even stopped with out effecting the space-time of our universe. If something like that were possible, then you could, in theory, put somebody in such a dimension, and have billions of years go by with out affecting or degrading the organism inside. They say that time is the fire in which we burn, but in such a dimension, time would have no meaning; it has no teeth there.

Such a device would require a being to have the power to shape space time, and quite possibly “a removing of ones self from the known universe”; which is why I think that it is highly unlikely anyone could harness such technological powers, even if it can be done in theory.

These ones

 

[freesoulhope]

These ones

These are just my own Ideas; my own philosophy. This is just the way i see things, based on how i experience the world. Do you think there is some error in what i have written? I would like to here what you think of it?

 

[Kitty_Chan]

I love speculating, so I have given you my full attention.

The "Objective You"

People on earth have been brought back from the dead, by heart massaging and resuscitation, and they have remained the same person, so long as no damage has been done to the brain. But once the body organs obtain irreversible damage or degrades, there is a point of no return which is impossible to come back from. As far as creating a “new person” is concerned, this is impossible, if you are talking about the “Objective-You”; but you can change the “Subjective-You”, because the “Subjective-You” is the software that you have “personally” added on to the “Objective you”; Your Hardware. You was already an “Objective-Person” before you had any memories. A Person has to exist before any memory can be actualised and absorbed in to the personality. For example, you could lose all of your memories, and people change the personalities all the time; however, they are the same “Objective-Person”. The Law of Cause and Affect is Absolute for every facet of macro-reality.

Well we are body, soul and spirit. When the body dies like you said thats it. It is impossible to come back except by God. Thats why if we ever did, I dont think the person would be right, and perhaps the zombie is actually a good example. Its something we shouldnt mess with. But if you are brought back by a heart resuscitation, fine God gave the surgeon the skills.

Besides looking for everlasting life is sorta smacking God in the Face isnt it? He has promised it already and its going to be slightly better than our scientists can figure out. So why we look, is beyond me. sides zombies are just annoying all they want are brains!

When you said “. A Person has to exist before any memory can be actualised and absorbed in to the personality.” Im wondering about that. God said He has always known us, Im not good at the deep bits. Was it in the womb or before?

And about the person losing their memory or even a person changing personality, people oftten say “Well hes just not like he was before” mind you, one can change for better or worse, I guess but still the same body, like you say. I figure that everything with God actually runs in logic, we may not see it but its there. Id have to say in the question of memory loss, one would have to count on Gods mercy, I dont mean this in a bad way, but positive, Hes not as mean as some would have us believe.

(I will take alook at the other part in a bit )

 

[freesoulhope]

When you said “. A Person has to exist before any memory can be actualised and absorbed in to the personality.” Im wondering about that. God said He has always known us, Im not good at the deep bits. Was it in the womb or before?)

God has allways know us, because he is not subject to time;
Plus, he created us, and loved us before he “timelessly” created us, and therefore, in a sense, it could be that we have always existed as an abstract idea that flows from Gods personal being, and he has chosen to actualise those ideas. Also, any personality or choice, that is good, already existed as an achytypal-design- idea, so that we may aquire them as indivisuals in our life-times; though some designs can be currupted by are sins, just like lust is a curruption of love.

Id have to say in the question of memory loss, one would have to count on Gods mercy, I dont mean this in a bad way, but positive, Hes not as mean as some would have us believe.

(I will take alook at the other part in a bit )

If i kill somebody but then lose my memory, unless i am given knowledge of my action, i cannot repent, and therefore, i think Gods mercy would rest on my shoulders. Thats not to say that i haven’t done anything wrong, but it may be that if i did obtain knowledge of what i did, i would repent. History says that i as a person did something wrong, and nothing can change that but Gods mercy. If my ability to freely repent is taken away from me due to brain damage, then, i am sure that God would take that in to consideration. God does not want people to go to hell; the truth is, God is perfect love, and if we live in contradiction to love, then what can God do for us?.

 

[Renatus]

Wasn’t Giordano Bruno tied to a pole naked and burned alive at the stake on February 17, 1600? One of his heresies what that the sun was just another star, and that there were other stars that were suns with their own planetary systems and possibly their own life?

ya lost me here round town? You north of Vegas? and how (Im not cathollic) does it contradict??

In case this answer hasn’t already come up: The concept of aliens doesn’t affect Catholicism.

– Mark L. Chance.

The Giordano Bruno picture presented is disingenuous. Bruno was in much deeper waters than just physics. St. Joan of Arc was burned at the stake as well. Why is she a saint today and not Bruno?
The concept of aliens, when it’s pure fantasy and it’s presented as such and accepted as such, is one thing. If it’s not presented as pure fantasy entertainment but as something really true, but it is not true, it affects Catholicism as a lie. If it is really true it affects Catholicism as real history. In any case, it affects Catholicism.
The dogmas of Jesus and Mary are based in the dogmas of the Most Holy Trinity. Memory’s been mentioned and that makes sense because putatively aliens are actors with “intellect.” Intellect is sort of a shorthand merging of memory and understanding, two trinitarian faculties in the human soul. These combined with will(voluntas) are the trinitarian image in man. The most perfect and highest memory, understanding, and will are of God alone and are uncreated and unlimited. All other real forms of these faculties are created and predicated in real and creaturely participation in the real, original, uncreated and highest form. The highest memory is never alienated from itself and is never alien in any part of the universe.
According to Catholicism, the uncreated and highest memory has revealed itself in a unique, eternally begotten and universally dominating image: Jesus Christ. Ipse Dominus est inter alios. No intelligence, alien or sympathetic, rises above this throne. The fastest and supreme and assuredly most benevolent U.F.O. in the universe is the throne of Jesus Christ the King of Angels, etc.
The Apostle’s Creed, being Catholic, is intergalactic and if there be aliens that don’t present themselves as servants of Jesus and Mary, then they contradict Catholic dogmas, because it’s dogma that the entire Heavenly court, in its highest spheres and technologies, is totally devoted to their service. If an alien intelligence doesn’t acknowledge this, he’s strange like Canaanite gremlins and false gods strange to me.
If given a rosary, what would an alien’s reaction be?

 

[mtr01]

Wasn’t Giordano Bruno tied to a pole naked and burned alive at the stake on February 17, 1600? One of his heresies what that the sun was just another star, and that there were other stars that were suns with their own planetary systems and possibly their own life?

Wow Bob, you really have no ethics, trying to suggest he was burned for that belief. Maybe some of this had something to do with it:

“He had written of an infinite universe which had left no room for that greater infinite conception which is called God. He could not conceive that God and nature could be separate and distinct entities as taught by Genesis, as taught by the Church and as even taught by Aristotle. He preached a philosophy which made the mysteries of the virginity of Mary, of the crucifixion and the mass, meaningless. He was so naive that he could not think of his own mental pictures as being really heresies. He thought of the Bible as a book which only the ignorant could take literally. The Church’s methods were, to say the least, unfortunate, and it encouraged ignorance from the instinct of self-preservation.”