How Do Those Who Call Themselves Catholic Support Gay Marriage?

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estesbob said:
I have a very close relative who is in a committed homosexual relationship. She and her partner know we don’t approve of their relationship but we include them in all family activities and get along quite well. the key is love them but never affirm their behavior.
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We do the same. It gladdens my hear to hear that you include them in family activities. This speaks volumes towards you as a Christian in my eyes.
Blessings,
esieffe
 
Typical Voris. The best way for the Church to lose members and fail at the new evangelization is to have people watch anything Voris.
 
kozlosap said:
Typical Voris. The best way for the Church to lose members and fail at the new evangelization is to have people watch anything Voris.
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If it is true, why wouldn’t someone watch? Is there an attempt to increase numbers without truth or is the intent to teach truth and have souls saved?
 
esieffe said:
Lets move on, shall we! We have other fish to fry. The Holy Father has suggested that we focus on other things for now. [although I have a tough time doing that with abortion issues more than anything else.]
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I don’t think the Pope has said that Catholics shouldn’t talk about these issues, only that they shouldn’t give the impression that these are the only issues they are concerned about. (For instance, most people-including many Catholics–got the impression that the Vatican disciplined the LCWR for focusing “too much” on social justice and “not enough” on abortion, when in fact they were disciplined for condoning outright violations of Church teaching, including some nuns who were actively championing the right to abortion and opposing the prolife movement. The disciplinary action may have been necessary, but along with other things it gave many people the impression that the Catholic Church only really cares about abortion and homosexuality, and does so out of a love of power and control. This is a distorted picture for which the media are much to blame, but the Pope is rightly concerned to correct this picture, even if it means opening himself to other misunderstandings.)

That being said, your basic point is correct, I think. And I agree with you entirely that abortion is in a completely different category, because it concerns the killing of the innocent.

Edwin
 
Nacho45 said:
If it is true, why wouldn’t someone watch? Is there an attempt to increase numbers without truth or is the intent to teach truth and have souls saved?
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Indeed. That’s a poor criticism. The real problem is that Voris is not telling the truth, or not the whole truth.

First of all, he frames everything under the rubric of “weak men.” That is to say, he’s criticizing contemporary secular values of “sensitivity” and “tolerance” with ancient secular values of masculine strength. But this is using one devil to drive out another. The culture of “strong men” has resulted in massive evil in the past, and current trends are a disordered reaction to that. Without telling that truth, the truth he is telling is radically distorted.

We don’t need “strong men” (is he suggesting that it’s OK to be weak if you are a woman?). We need virtuous, courageous people of both sexes, both clergy and laity. This may be just a verbal difference, but how you put things matters. He could easily have said “the bishops lack courage” without using the phrase “weak men,” which inserts secular gender politics into the conversation. And yes, this is an issue of “putting people off,” in the sense that he’s trying to defend Catholic teaching but doing so under a rubric that creates a division among those who accept the teaching.

Secondly, he seems to be implying that the “social justice issues” aren’t really very important. In other words, he’s fragmenting Catholic teaching and saying that only certain issues matter. But Catholic teaching stands as a whole. Just yelling at the culture about sex gives a distorted picture of Catholic teaching. Again, this does indeed put people off, but the really important point is that it puts them off by distorting the true beauty of Catholic teaching. He’s not alienating people by telling them the truth. He’s alienating most people (and whipping up the zeal of a small group of hardline conservatives) by telling partial truths very loudly.

I actually agree with his point that a lot of Catholic bishops lack courage and clarity in the way they articulate Catholic teaching. But I don’t think it’s because they aren’t “masculine” enough, and I want to see them articulate the whole of Catholic teaching, not just the parts Mr. Voris happens to like.

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
Indeed. That’s a poor criticism. The real problem is that Voris is not telling the truth, or not the whole truth.

First of all, he frames everything under the rubric of “weak men.” That is to say, he’s criticizing contemporary secular values of “sensitivity” and “tolerance” with ancient secular values of masculine strength. But this is using one devil to drive out another. The culture of “strong men” has resulted in massive evil in the past, and current trends are a disordered reaction to that. Without telling that truth, the truth he is telling is radically distorted.

We don’t need “strong men” (is he suggesting that it’s OK to be weak if you are a woman?). We need virtuous, courageous people of both sexes, both clergy and laity. This may be just a verbal difference, but how you put things matters. He could easily have said “the bishops lack courage” without using the phrase “weak men,” which inserts secular gender politics into the conversation. And yes, this is an issue of “putting people off,” in the sense that he’s trying to defend Catholic teaching but doing so under a rubric that creates a division among those who accept the teaching.

Secondly, he seems to be implying that the “social justice issues” aren’t really very important. In other words, he’s fragmenting Catholic teaching and saying that only certain issues matter. But Catholic teaching stands as a whole. Just yelling at the culture about sex gives a distorted picture of Catholic teaching. Again, this does indeed put people off, but the really important point is that it puts them off by distorting the true beauty of Catholic teaching. He’s not alienating people by telling them the truth. He’s alienating most people (and whipping up the zeal of a small group of hardline conservatives) by telling partial truths very loudly.

I actually agree with his point that a lot of Catholic bishops lack courage and clarity in the way they articulate Catholic teaching. But I don’t think it’s because they aren’t “masculine” enough, and I want to see them articulate the whole of Catholic teaching, not just the parts Mr. Voris happens to like.

Edwin
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I didn’t get all of that out of his video. I saw a serious concern (right or wrong) for the Church and the secular indoctrination of its youth. I got the impression the side issues wouldn’t be a big deal if the larger issues were fought differently. Then again, I only saw this one video and know nothing about him.
 
Somewhere along the line, the definition of tolerance got confused with that of compassion.
The definition and role of tolerance is subjective, for some it means ignoring or putting up with a condition in interest of keeping peace for a certain period of time.

Compassion for us should be a permanent part of our lives. Christ was compassionate. I don’t know how tolerant he was, but he was compassionate. I feel the need to follow his example of compassion. To be honest, I am not sure what to think about tolerance.
 
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