How Do Traditionalists Feel about Divine Mercy?

[Church_Militant]

Thanks Br. Jay for all the good info. Sometimes I think we forget that (since you don’t toot your own horn about it) that you actually and probably have forgotten more about the traditional Catholic faith than most of us will ever know. I know that’s true in my case.

As for not liking or making use of the Divine Mercy devotion, that’s on you guys who choose to go that route, but I love it. Have any of you actually read St. Faustina’s diary? If not then I think you need to because she will introduce you to Our Lord Jesus Christ as you have never known him before.

Meanwhile, here’s a decade of the DMC offered for us all, and in Latin no less.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[bluecake]

OK - I have an open mind. I’ll have a hunt around for the diary, and I will also look for a much better picture than the one I saw today!

 

[TrueLight]

Have any of you actually read St. Faustina’s diary? If not then I think you need to because she will introduce you to Our Lord Jesus Christ as you have never known him before.

This is one thing I really liked about the diary. Sometimes I feel that Catholics don’t understand the kind of relationship that is possible to exist between our Lord and a soul. Some people feel that they cannot even pray to Jesus directly. This is an awesome book.

 

[floresco]

There is no such thing as an independent priest within the Catholic Church.

I think we all know what is meant by this expression - a validly ordained priest who is not incardinated. These certainly do exist so I do not see why you are claiming “there is no such thing.”

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I think we all know what is meant by this expression - a validly ordained priest who is not incardinated. These certainly do exist so I do not see why you are claiming “there is no such thing.”

Read what I said fully please.

Again, there is no such thing as an independent priest within the Catholic Church.

 

[TempleServant]

In the 1962 calendar, today is Quasimodo or Low Sunday. It part of the octave of Easter. It’s a feast day.

I read somewhere that Divine Mercy Sunday is penitential in nature? If so, it doesn’t fit.

If the Pope makes it a feast day, does that change it from being a private revelation to something like a dogma?

Or is that Alphonsus said earlier actually the whole truth, as far as obligation?

For God’s sake, what John Paul II did was only:

1. Subtitle the Octave of Easter as Divine Mercy Sunday. By default it is already a solemnity. He did not delete, change, subtract anything. Everything else intact for Mass in that day. It just a new subtitle. There is no Feast of Divine Mercy, the feast is the Solemnity of Octave of Easter itself.
2. He instituted plenary indulgence for that day. Don’t say the traditionalist don’t want the subtitle but want the plenary indulgence, or worse to claim that the plenary indulgence is ineffective because John Paul II who instituted it, or because you use old calendar the indulgence is not applicable to you?
3. Anything else is part of the realm of devotion, no one obligated: chaplet, image, message, etc. John Paul II approved the devotion for the whole Church. But since devotion is not an obligation, no one is bound to take it. No problem here.

 

[JReducation]

I think we all know what is meant by this expression - a validly ordained priest who is not incardinated. These certainly do exist so I do not see why you are claiming “there is no such thing.”

What Brother is trying to say is what Canon Law says. Canon Law says that there is no such thing as an independent priest. All priests must be incardinated into an institute or a diocese. They cannot have faculties, unless they’re incardinated and the Church does not supply, except in an emergency. If they walk from a diocese, the are automatically suspended. If they walk without permission from a religious order, they can be excommunicated, because they are walking from religious life and the priesthood. It’s a double penalty.

There really is no such thing as a independent priest. If you’re independent, you’re no longer in communion with the Church, which places you outside the Church. Canon Law calls that a renegade priest, not an independent priest. We must keep our legal terms correct. Otherwise, people reading this will believe that there really are priests who are in communion with the Church and are independent of her governance.

No Catholic is independent, if he or she is in communion with the Church. He or she is subject to her governance according to his or her state in life. Even you are incardinated into the diocese of residence and the diocese where you were baptized. You never lose that one. If you were received into the Church from another faith, you are incardinated into the diocese where you are received. That becomes your home diocese. That’s why the word independent does not exist in Canon Law.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[figs]

Sometimes I feel that Catholics don’t understand the kind of relationship that is possible to exist between our Lord and a soul. Some people feel that they cannot even pray to Jesus directly.

Really? Wow! I’ve never felt I couldn’t have a personal relationship with Christ. I’ve never even met a Catholic that felt like they couldn’t “pray to Jesus directly”

 

[floresco]

Read what I said fully please.

Again, there is no such thing as an independent priest within the Catholic Church.

And don’t these words of the Catechism apply to them:

All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church." “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity”

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

And don’t these words of the Catechism apply to them:

They don’t speak on this issue.

But Canon Law does.

Please go through and read what Br JR says above.

 

[TrueLight]

Really? Wow! I’ve never felt I couldn’t have a personal relationship with Christ. I’ve never even met a Catholic that felt like they couldn’t “pray to Jesus directly”

Yeah. That topic has been discussed on CAF unfortunately.

So anyway, just wanted to point out that we had our mass according to the 1962 missal today, but Divine mercy was mentioned during the homily and we prayed the Divine Mercy Chaplet in song before our Vespers service.

So that’s how it was incorporated at my parish.

 

[Church_Militant]

Really? Wow! I’ve never felt I couldn’t have a personal relationship with Christ. I’ve never even met a Catholic that felt like they couldn’t “pray to Jesus directly”

I’ll have to agree with you there. Still, St. Faustina’s diary is pretty intense in many places and she really had a very deep relationship with Him.

My wife and I went to Mass early so that we could pray the DMC before Mass began.

There’s an easy and worthwhile way to get a copy.
Just click below…
secure.marianweb.net/giftshop/assets/images/special/diary.jpg

 

[JReducation]

I think we all know what is meant by this expression - a validly ordained priest who is not incardinated. These certainly do exist so I do not see why you are claiming “there is no such thing.”

Canonically, they do not exist. They are not even mentioned in the law. The reason being is that any priest who is not incardinated is either suspended or excommunicated. In both cases, he has not authority to function as a priest. Therefore, he cannot refer to himself as an independent priest, nor may the laity refer to him as such.

None of us can create a label for someone when the Church does not acknowledge that label. So, if you run into a priest that is not incardinated, the proper term is “A suspended priest.” He may not be excommunicated, but he is definitely suspended. And if he’s excommunicated, he’s also suspended. So "A Suspended Priest "is his canonical status, not an independent priest.

An independent priest makes his status sound like a positive, which is not. His status is gravely sinful. He’s a renegade either from a diocese or an institute. Dioceses and institutes do not have the authority to turn their men loose.

I’ll give you an example. We had a brother who wanted to become a secular priest. Before we could release him, he had to find a bishop who would take him. He found such a bishop.

That bishop said that he would not incardinate him until he was liberated from the consecrated life. He lived as a secular priest in a rectory and worked in the diocese for five years, but was still a consecrated religious until the dispensation came from the Holy See. We could not cut him loose. He remained incardinated in our community, even though he was living outside of it and working for a diocese. The bishop incardinated him on the day that the papers came through.

Here was the other glitch. Neither the brother, nor the superior could sign off on the dispensation, unless the bishop was ready to sign off on the incardination. Because as he’s leaving the religious institute he has be entering the diocese. There can be no gap in incardination. You must belong to someone to whom you give an account and who gives you faculties. If you do not, then you are suspended. If you insist on remaining in that state, then you are a renegade and can be excommunicated. The correct term for such a priest is a suspended priest who runs the chapel up the street, not the independent priest.

Even priests who retire remain incardinated. If they are secular, they remain incardinated in their home diocese, even if they move to Florida to live on the beach. If they are religious, they never really retire. They just work less. They remain incardinated in their religious community and they have faculties in any diocese where their community has faculties.

They cannot be treated as Protestant or other non Catholic clergy and religious leaders, because they are Catholic. There are such things as an independent Baptist pastor. But they are not bound by Canon Law.

Is that clearer?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[Loveolivia]

http://www.castoffdebt.comlol

 

[figs]

Yeah. That topic has been discussed on CAF unfortunately.

Oh, I agree. It is most ‘unfortunate’ that the topic ever came up at all.

 

[figs]

I’ll have to agree with you there. Still, St. Faustina’s diary is pretty intense in many places and she really had a very deep relationship with Him.

Yes, I agree, her diary is intense.
Pretty much everyone in our parish are very into Divine Mercy.

I’ve always loved His Sacred Heart (signature gives a clue lol), Divine Mercy is ‘more of a great thing’ to me

Thank you very much for the link to the book.

 

[patrick457]

In the 1962 calendar, today is Quasimodo or Low Sunday. It part of the octave of Easter. It’s a feast day.

I read somewhere that Divine Mercy Sunday is penitential in nature? If so, it doesn’t fit.

It isn’t. As Alphonsus pointed out, the only change was the addition of the subtitle.

For the record, St. Augustine once delivered a sermon on the Octave of Easter on the topic of mercy. ([Sermon 259 In die Dominico octavarum Paschae](http://monumenta.ch/latein/verzeichnis4.php?tabelle=Augustinus&xy=Augustinus, Sermones, 20&level=4&nummer=&apparat=&step=&domain=&lang=0&inframe=1&hide_apparatus=1); partial English translation here, pp. 175-182) Coincidence?

 

[floresco]

Canonically, they do not exist. They are not even mentioned in the law. The reason being is that any priest who is not incardinated is either suspended or excommunicated. In both cases, he has not authority to function as a priest. Therefore, he cannot refer to himself as an independent priest, nor may the laity refer to him as such.

That may be true canonically. Theologically, however, the mark conferred by ordination is indelible. A validly ordained Catholic priest never stops being a Catholic priest whatever his canonical status.

It is misleading to say that independent Catholic priests do not exist. It would be much clearer to say that “independent” is not the correct technical term to use for priests who are not incardinated.

 

[Melchior_1]

It isn’t. As Alphonsus pointed out, the only change was the addition of the subtitle.

For the record, St. Augustine once delivered a sermon on the Octave of Easter on the topic of mercy. ([Sermon 259 In die Dominico octavarum Paschae](http://monumenta.ch/latein/verzeichnis4.php?tabelle=Augustinus&xy=Augustinus, Sermones, 20&level=4&nummer=&apparat=&step=&domain=&lang=0&inframe=1&hide_apparatus=1); partial English translation here, pp. 175-182) Coincidence?

HUGE thumbs up on the Augustine find!!

 

[Celticnovice]

How could anyone be against Christ pouring out mercy upon the whole world?

The Eternal Father prayer, “Eternal Father, I offer You the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world” is an echo of the Mass itself.

The Divine Mercy prayer, “For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world”, is an echo of the Jesus prayer, “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have mercy on me a sinner” which is one of the oldest prayers in Christianity.

The Trisaigon (Thrice Holy) prayer, “Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us and on the whole world” is also an ancient prayer and is used in the Divine Liturgy of almost all of the Eastern Catholic Churches. Add Psalm 51, the Nicean Creed and a repeat “Most Holy Theotokos, save us!” a few times and you practically have the Prayer Rule of St. Pachomius which many Eastern Catholic pray.

Why anyone would be against the prayers themselves or the messages they contain is completely lost on me. To reject prayers involking the name of Jesus and asking for Mercy just because they were combined into a devotion after Vatican II is truly astounding.

-Tim-

Well said…