"How do we demonstrate that we have a soul?"

[KatecheoAlpha]

One of the more effective responses that I have been blessed hearing from Mr. Tim Staples regarding this query is :“We know we have souls, and this is evident because we don’t eat each other.”

How else can I philosophically frame a response? (Without citing scripture verse or CCC doctrinal quotation). Church Father/s or Saint/s, or Encyclical references would be very helpful!

Thanks for helping out!

Ave Maria †

 

[atheistgirl]

One of the more effective responses that I have been blessed hearing from Mr. Tim Staples regarding this query is :“We know we have souls, and this is evident because we don’t eat each other.”

Well, that’s just not true.

Sarah x

 

[Matthewmatt]

The way i like to demontrate that we have Souls is the way that we Love. If your atheist and dont believe in God then you have to say that love is oh well some differant chemicals in the brain that react or some biological explanation that the molecules do this and cause that.

But anybody would say No No No if they have ever loved in their life. When we love someone everything changes and the feeling is as nothing anyones experienced that Love a mother had for a child or that love a man has for his wife and kids that he would die for. This CANNOT be reduced to just chemicals in the brain or science. It shows that we have a Soul. We are special. There is something more.

Also the way us humans create art and admire beauty. We not like animals who would see a beautiful painting and just pee on it. We admire beauty and love people.

I believe this shows that we have a Soul or that at least were made in the image of some Greater Being.

Good question! If anyone has more ways id love to hear too.

Peace in Christ,
Matthew

 

[Matthewmatt]

I would like to also add our conscience. Whenever someone does something wrong we feel guilty. yes some more than others but everyone feels guilty somewhat. Animals do not feel guilty for they dont have a Soul like us.

Our conscience is a big indication that we have a Soul. Some peoples Soul might be stained or dark who dont feel guilty but we all have one.

Peace in Christ,
Matthew

 

[atheistgirl]

This CANNOT be reduced to just chemicals in the brain or science.

On the contrary, that’s exactly what it is - nothing more, nothing less. Chemicals doing thar thang

According to a new study, The Neuroimaging of Love, brain regions with decidedly unromantic names, like the dorsolateral middle frontal gyrus and the anterior cingulate, as well chemicals like nerve growth factor, dopamine and oxytocin, are all involved in orchestrating these feelings of love. Some of these areas are those that are also active when people are under the influence of euphoria-inducing drugs – suggesting that falling in love may have a similar effect on the brain as using cocaine…

…In one of the experiments, 17 men and women described as being truly, deeply, and madly in love with their partner had their brains scanned while looking at a picture of the partner for 17 seconds. The scans showed that there was increased activity in the caudate nucleus and putamen areas of the brain, which are associated with the brain chemical dopamine and with sensations of euphoria and reward. There was also activity in other dopamine areas, the same regions that are active in people using cocaine.

Increased activity was also seen in the post-erior hippocampus, an area involved in memory and mental associations. There was activity too in areas processing emotions and rewards, but there was a drop in activity in areas associated with anxiety and fear.

Overall, Dr Ortigue’s analysis shows that passionate love involves brain areas involved in emotion, motivation, reward, social cognition, attention, and self-representation or body image.

Activity in these areas leads to changes in the levels of a number of chemicals in the besotted brain, including increases in dopamine, oxytocin, adrenaline, vasopressin, and a decrease of serotonin, which results in the classic love symptoms, like obsessively thinking about the beloved, craving for a union with him or her, euphoria, and greater energy.

Sarah x

 

[grannymh]

One of the more effective responses that I have been blessed hearing from Mr. Tim Staples regarding this query is :“We know we have souls, and this is evident because we don’t eat each other.”

How else can I philosophically frame a response? (Without citing scripture verse or CCC doctrinal quotation). Church Father/s or Saint/s, or Encyclical references would be very helpful!

Thanks for helping out!

Ave Maria †

Our spiritual soul has a rational intellect and a [free] will. These two faculties of our spiritual soul are demonstrated in everyday life.

 

[jmjconder]

**How to demonstrate that we have a soul?
We live and breath. All living creatures have a soul - it is the breath of life.

How to demonstrate that we have an immortal soul?
We die after living a life of faith.

As humans we cannot demonstrate to anyone that they have a soul - let alone an immortal one. This is faith.**

 

[Matthewmatt]

On the contrary, that’s exactly what it is - nothing more, nothing less. Chemicals doing thar thang

Sarah x

Sarah I know this is what you read and its what science says. I understand that and i don’t deny that these chemicals do this and that. I’m sure they do. But I’m saying the Love that we have a love thats not just romantic a Love that is willing the good of another shows that we have a Soul. Such as when St. Maximillian Kolbe traded places with a man condemned to die at a natzi concentration camp. St. Maximillian didnt have to do it. There were no chemicals in his brain saying go die! but he chose in his soul to give his life so that another may live. This is an intense love. Also the example of Mother Teresa who served the poor and loved them. Not a chemical reaction. But a true Love.

Finally the example of a good husband. yes maybe when he was first attracted to his wife it was the chemicals in his head looking at her body or whatever. But when he falls in love he falls in love with her and he sacrifices things he would rather do and sacrifices for his children and would die for his children. This is an intense love that i believe cant be reduced to mere chemicals. Now does that mean science is wrong? No! Just that theres the body which science and explain and should explain. But theres also the Soul which the Church can explain and should.

Peace in Christ,
Matthew

 

[atheistgirl]

How to demonstrate that we have a soul?
We live and breath. All living creatures have a soul - it is the breath of life.

Is that just a statement on your part, or have you evidence to prove we have a soul?

How to demonstrate that we have an immortal soul?
We die after living a life of faith.

 

[aragonjohn1]

Fr. Spitzers excellent summary on that topic

“Human beings also appear to have a “sense” of perfect and unconditional love. Not only do we have the power to love (i.e., the power to be naturally connected to another human being in profound empathy, emotion, care, self-gift, concern, and acceptance), we have a “sense” of what this profound interpersonal connection would be like if it were perfect. This sense of perfect love has the positive effect of inciting us to pursue ever more perfect forms of love. However, it has the drawback of inciting us to expect ever more perfect love from other human beings. This generally leads to frustrated expectations of others and consequently to a decline of relationships that can never grow fast enough to match this expectation of perfect and unconditional love.
This phenomenon gradually manifests itself. For example, as the first signs of imperfection, conditionedness, and finitude begin to emerge in one’s beloved, one may show slight irritation, but have hopes that the ideal will soon be recaptured (as if it were ever captured to begin with). But as the fallibility of the beloved begins to be more acutely manifest (the other is not perfectly humble, gentle, kind, forgiving, self-giving, and concerned with me in all my interests) the irritation becomes frustration, which, in turn, becomes dashed expectation: “I can’t believe I thought she was really the One.” Of course, she wasn’t the One, because she is not perfect and unconditioned. Nevertheless, the dashed expectation becomes either quiet hurt or overt demands, both aimed at extracting a higher level of performance from the beloved. When she does not comply, thoughts of terminating the relationship may arise.
The root problem was not with the authenticity of this couple’s love for one another. It did not arise out of a lack of concern, care, and responsiveness, or a lack of desire to be self-giving, responsible, self-disciplined, and true. Rather, it arose out of a false expectation that they could be perfect and unconditional love, truth, goodness, fairness, meaning, and home for one another.
Why do we fall prey to what seems to be such an obvious error? Because our desire for love and to love is unconditional, but our actuality is conditioned. Our desire is for the perfect, but our actuality is imperfect. We, as human beings, therefore, cannot satisfy one another’s desire for the unconditional and the perfect. If we do not have a real unconditional and perfect being to satisfy this desire, we start looking around us to find a surrogate. Other human beings at first seem like a very good surrogate, because they display qualities of self-transcendence. Hence, we confuse one another for the perfect and unconditioned, and undermine the very relationships which hold out opportunities for growth, depth, joy, common cause, and mutual bondedness.
What is the origin of this desire for unconditional love? Just as the unrestricted desire to know must include a notional awareness of complete intelligibility to give rise to an awareness of and dissatisfaction with every manifestation of incomplete intelligibility, so also the desire for unconditional love must include a notional awareness of unconditional love to give rise to the awareness of and dissatisfaction with every manifestation of conditioned and imperfect love. This notional awareness of unconditional love seems to be beyond any specifically known or concretely experienced love, for it seems to cause dissatisfaction with every conditioned love we have known or experienced. Thus, our dissatisfaction would seem to arise out of an ideal of unconditional love which has neither been experienced nor actualized. How can we have an awareness of love that we have neither known nor experienced? How can we even extrapolate to it if we do not know where we are going? The inability to give a logical answer to these questions has led some philosophers to associate the desire for unconditional love with “the notion of unconditional love within us,” which would seem to have its origin in unconditional love itself.
Lonergan believes that when we fulfill our desire for unconditional love by authentically loving God, we simultaneously fulfill our capacity for self-transcendence, which includes our desire for perfect truth, goodness, and beauty:
I have conceived being in love with God as an ultimate fulfillment of man’s capacity for self-transcendence; and this view of religion is sustained when God is conceived as the supreme fulfillment of the transcendental notions, as supreme intelligence, truth, reality, righteousness, goodness.[10]
Once again, the human awareness of and desire for the perfect and unconditional manifests a dimension which is not reducible to algorithmically finite (physical) structures; and so it seems that we have yet another trans-physical (spiritual), self-transcendent power.”

• magisgodwiki.org/index.php?title=The_Transcendentals#II._The_Desire_for_Perfect_and_Unconditional_Love

Shalom
God bless

 

[fred_conty]

One of the more effective responses that I have been blessed hearing from Mr. Tim Staples regarding this query is :“We know we have souls, and this is evident because we don’t eat each other.”

How else can I philosophically frame a response? (Without citing scripture verse or CCC doctrinal quotation). Church Father/s or Saint/s, or Encyclical references would be very helpful!

Thanks for helping out!

Ave Maria †

Ideas that we formulate, such as justice, idealism, integrity, philosophy, “redn,writn,rithmatic”,
buisness formulas, and much more are just as real as any physical reality yet is something above the corporal reality. It makes man quite different from his animal friends and is the reason why he is superior by nature to them.

I have yet to see a horse write an historical novel, or a chimp graduate with honors, or a mouse give a disertation on economics. The animals are wonderful critters and God’s gift to us and as much as we appreciate them, they simply are not our equals.

Just a thought, which by the way is the sign that I have a soul.
And anyone who can read this also means they too have a soul, including the angels, who have no bodies.

 

[Matthewmatt]

Also nobody and no amount of science can prove that we dont have a Soul so someone who obects to the exsistance of a Soul cannot dismiss it because there is no empirical proof that disproves the Soul.

Peace in Christ,
Matthew

 

[atheistgirl]

Also nobody and no amount of science can prove that we dont have a Soul so someone who obects to the exsistance of a Soul cannot dismiss it because there is no empirical proof that disproves the Soul.

Peace in Christ,
Matthew

In just the same way as I can never prove there is no Deity.

But just as I see no evidence for the existence of such a being, I see no evidence for the existence of an immortal soul.

All the points you’ve raized can be easily understood and explained by natural means, and in fact, have been.

No immortal soul required.

Sarah x

 

[po18guy]

On the contrary, that’s exactly what it is - nothing more, nothing less. Chemicals doing thar thang Sarah x

Explain the difference between a living person and a dead one - their bodies each consist of exactly the same physical elements.

The difference is in the immaterial realm: their spirit.

 

[atheistgirl]

The difference is in the immaterial realm: their spirit.

Nope.

The difference is in one the heart and brain are functioning, along with all the other bodily organs, and in the other, they’re not.

Stop the heart and the process of dying begins in earnest. Leave it stopped long enough, and you’re dead.



Sarah x

 

[Matthewmatt]

In just the same way as I can never prove there is no Deity.

But just as I see no evidence for the existence of such a being, I see no evidence for the existence of an immortal soul.

All the points you’ve raized can be easily understood and explained by natural means, and in fact, have been.

No immortal soul required.

Sarah x

But Sarah to say that all the points I made can be explained by natrual means doesnt disprove what im saying. As Christians we believe that God has created all things and has placed a system to order them so to speak, science. To say that life and matter is able to be studied and learned about. It makes sense. God wanted it to make sense. So of course there are explanations of natrual means for everything but what were arguing is that these explanations ALONE do not suffice. I believe love is somewhat a chemical reaction in the brain such as animals would be but i think theres an extra layer to that, we also have a Soul that God created. For example look at this-

As humans we have justice.

Animals do not have justice.

Chimp 1 steals a banana from chimp 2. Chimp 3 a bystander doesnt get mad that chimp 1 stole the banana and goes and retrieves it.

Us as humans though know its wrong to steal and to hurt.

Why? Why dont we also act as chimps and show no sign of justice?

Why? Because we have been created differantly in the image of a God who is justice.
This cant be explained through science this is because we have a Soul.

2nd Example the Creation of the universe

You say there is no evidence for God? But what about this huge question.

How can something , the cosmos, come from nothing? There must be a creator.
The big bang theory says that the cosmos did have a beginning at the big bang.
And if somehting has a beginning then it must be created.

See God has no beginning and no end. He is eternal.



Peace in Christ,
Matthew

 

[grannymh]

One of the more effective responses that I have been blessed hearing from Mr. Tim Staples regarding this query is :“We know we have souls, and this is evident because we don’t eat each other.”

How else can I philosophically frame a response? (Without citing scripture verse or CCC doctrinal quotation). Church Father/s or Saint/s, or Encyclical references would be very helpful!

Thanks for helping out!

Ave Maria †

The spiritual soul goes along with the belief that we can have a relationship with our Creator. It is as simple as that. Debating that the Creator does not exist accomplishes very little when it comes to understanding human nature.
Human nature is an unique unification of both the material world and the spiritual world. Eliminating the spiritual world is eliminating an essential part of human nature.

 

[StrawberryJam]

The spiritual soul goes along with the belief that we can have a relationship with our Creator. It is as simple as that. Debating that the Creator does not exist accomplishes very little when it comes to understanding human nature.
Human nature is an unique unification of both the material world and the spiritual world. Eliminating the spiritual world is eliminating an essential part of human nature.

We don’t really have any basis other than the Catholic Church for our understanding the difficult topic of human nature as defined by the Catholic Church. If one is held hostage to their definitions of things, then the conversation stagnates.

We must believe it because, the Catholic Church says it is so.

 

[capoly]

Matthewmatt:

Also nobody and no amount of science can prove that we dont have a Soul so someone who obects to the exsistance of a Soul cannot dismiss it because there is no empirical proof that disproves the Soul.

1. One cannot prove a universal negative.
2. Just because something cannot be disproven, it is not a legitimate reason to assume that it is true. You cannot disprove the existence of the Tooth fairy, but the lack of that “disproof” is not a sufficient reason to assume that it exists…

Matthewmatt:

But Sarah to say that all the points I made can be explained by natrual means doesnt disprove what im saying.

That is correct. Just like the fact that all of Uri Geller’s sleight of hand magic (which he claims is done by some paranormal means) was reproduced by other stage magicians does not “disprove” the existence of paranormal powers. It merely makes the assumption of “paranormal powers” superfluous, unnecessary. Just like the scientific explanation of the problems you bring up does not disprove the existence of a “soul”, it simply makes the “soul”-hypothesis useless and unnecessary.

StrawberryJam:

We must believe it because, the Catholic Church says it is so.

Well said. There is no rational reason for it, but since the church says it, you must believe it. I saw some bumper sticker in the (predominantly baptist) Deep South, which said: “Jesus said it, I believe it, that is the end of it”. Looks like there is not a whole lot of difference between the catholics and the baptists.

 

[SerraSemper]

One of the more effective responses that I have been blessed hearing from Mr. Tim Staples regarding this query is :“We know we have souls, and this is evident because we don’t eat each other.”

How else can I philosophically frame a response? (Without citing scripture verse or CCC doctrinal quotation). Church Father/s or Saint/s, or Encyclical references would be very helpful!

Thanks for helping out!

Ave Maria †

Not sure why you didn’t post in the philosophy board rather than this one… but just look up Aristotle’s De Anima (The Soul). Read it, and you’ll be good to go!