How do we identify a Reprobate among us.?

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AndyF

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For instance is he one more likely to take the penitential attitude of imperfect contrition? Would he more likely love or fear God? Or take on careers of a evil nature.? Anti social,etc.

Would he walk through this world bearing externally in some way manifesting the stigma.?

Or the complete opposite. Could he be a striver of rightousness and determined in his resolve, a devout person, kind in every way, an emulator of Christ?

AndyF
 
AndyF said:
For instance is he one more likely to take the penitential attitude of imperfect contrition? Would he more likely love or fear God? Or take on careers of a evil nature.? Anti social,etc.

Would he walk through this world bearing externally in some way manifesting the stigma.?

Or the complete opposite. Could he be a striver of rightousness and determined in his resolve, a devout person, kind in every way, an emulator of Christ?

AndyF
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Is this in reference to predestination?

God Bless,
Michael
 
AndyF said:
For instance is he one more likely to take the penitential attitude of imperfect contrition? Would he more likely love or fear God? Or take on careers of a evil nature.? Anti social,etc.

Would he walk through this world bearing externally in some way manifesting the stigma.?

Or the complete opposite. Could he be a striver of rightousness and determined in his resolve, a devout person, kind in every way, an emulator of Christ?

AndyF
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To coin a phrase: that kind of of thing is no damn business of ours.​

 
In the 50s, the Reprobates had switchblade combs and leather jackets.
 
AndyF said:
For instance is he one more likely to take the penitential attitude of imperfect contrition? Would he more likely love or fear God? Or take on careers of a evil nature.? Anti social,etc.

Would he walk through this world bearing externally in some way manifesting the stigma.?

Or the complete opposite. Could he be a striver of rightousness and determined in his resolve, a devout person, kind in every way, an emulator of Christ?

AndyF
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Have you tried starting a poll? Make sure that it’s not an anonymous poll, and ask people to check Reprobate or Not Reprobate

This only works if the person knows they are a reprobate, though.
 
AndyF said:
And to coin scripture and Christianity, while we are here in fraternal caring, we are concerned for our bretheren.

AndyF
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And to quote a different bit of scripture ‘judge not lest you be judged’ - I really see nothing fraternal nor caring about putting a horrible label like ‘reprobate’ on a person.
 
Teflon93 said:
You may wish to define your terms.
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The concept is by nature a pretty abstract idea for us limited humans, nor does it bring on elated glee. The Church gives us little to go on to begin with. However it exists and is real all the same.

St. Ambrose, “He did not predestine before He foreknew, but for those whose merits He foresaw, He predestined the reward.”

So from the previous line:

for those who he reprobated when he foreknew, and for those who’s demerits He foresaw, how can we recognize such a person among us? In other words is there an identifiable uniqueness that sets him apart from the elect.? Hope that’s simpler.

newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm

AndyF
 
LilyM said:
And to quote a different bit of scripture ‘judge not lest you be judged’ - ain’t nothing fraternal nor caring about putting a revolting label like ‘reprobate’ on a person.
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You’ll need to address your message to the proper recipient who is capable of making the assignment. All my references are after the fact.

AndyF
 
AndyF said:
You’ll need to address your message to the proper recipient who is capable of making the assignment. All my references are after the fact.

AndyF
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And that’s what I did - and what YOU need to do too.

Identification of the state of someone’s soul is for God and that person alone.

It’s not for you to dare try to ‘call’ or ‘identify’ or ‘assign’ any other individual as reprobated. I hope you’d never call yourself such either, since you haven’t reached final judgement yet. All of this is for God alone who is the only party can truly read the hearts and souls of men.
 
AndyF said:
The concept is by nature a pretty abstract idea for us limited humans, nor does it bring on elated glee. The Church gives us little to go on to begin with. However it exists and is real all the same.

St. Ambrose, “He did not predestine before He foreknew, but for those whose merits He foresaw, He predestined the reward.”

So from the previous line:

for those who he reprobated when he foreknew, and for those who’s demerits He foresaw, how can we recognize such a person among us? In other words is there an identifiable uniqueness that sets him apart from the elect.? Hope that’s simpler.

newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm

AndyF
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This doesn’t help because you haven’t defined what you mean by “reprobate.”

I’m not asking for the justification for your particular definition of the term, just for a definition of it.

The question can’t be answered without it, regardless of perspective.
 
I’m trying to figure out why we would lose sleep over this question?

Isn’t this another case that can only really be known by God Himself since He’s the only one who can know a human heart?
 
If you can manage to focus objectively on the topic I’ll answer you. An easy way to do that is to assume a third party as subject.

Much more constructive ground can be covered.

Besides, no one’s interested in you trying to save our souls. 😉

AndyF
 
Here’s more food for thought.

If he also foresaw the demon’s fall and rejection, why didn’t he reprobate them when they were created as angels.? This fact also means there were the elect and reprobate among angels.

If he doesn’t need to apply the stigma in one case, why keep it for man?

Could it be he had to overlook the fact in order to satisfy close proximity tasks for them.?

Please, keep the Ad Hominems low key. If it will work, I’m unsavable, how’s that?. 😃

AndyF
 
AndyF said:
For instance is he one more likely to take the penitential attitude of imperfect contrition? Would he more likely love or fear God? Or take on careers of a evil nature.? Anti social,etc.

Would he walk through this world bearing externally in some way manifesting the stigma.?

Or the complete opposite. Could he be a striver of rightousness and determined in his resolve, a devout person, kind in every way, an emulator of Christ?
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Just look in the mirror.😉
 
AndyF,

(I’m sorry if some of this letter sounds too critical; I’m just saying what I think, maybe a little too forcefully!)

We cannot read hearts even to tell the state of someone’s soul RIGHT NOW.

Much less can we tell if someone is GOING TO HELL.

We have free will. No man can tell what choices another man may make in the future, or whether he will be damned or saved. If a man is damned, he is damned because he freely sins. God doesn’t cause damnation (only the punishment, which is not the same). God is good; He permits evil, but does not cause it. God didn’t make some men puppets on a string, doomed to hell, and let us see the strings!

Yes, I DO know that predestination is real, but it is in GOD’s hands. It is not only an “abstract idea for us limited human belings” it is God’s MYSTERY. The Catholic Encyclopedia article you referenced says this:

In order to emphasize how mysterious and unapproachable is Divine election, the Council of Trent calls predestination “hidden mystery”. That predestination is indeed a sublime mystery appears not only from the fact that the depths of the eternal counsel cannot be fathomed, it is even externally visible in the inequality of the Divine choice.

It seems to me that you are trying to approach the unapproachable, and “fathom the depths of the eternal counsel”.

The compatibility between our free will and God’s eternal knowledge and plan (causing the good and permitting the evil) is HIS mystery.

Scripture says God wills that all should be saved. By Christ’s death on the cross, He provided grace sufficient for all. That they aren’t saved, is due to their own free will. Christ knew who were going to Hell, yet He died for them too. He was God, the author of all things, and He worked free will into His eternal plan.

Christ could understand, for He is God. We are not.

Calvinism was one heresy that came about because men were delving too deep into God’s mystery. As if they could understand!

I know good Catholic theologians and Saints have thought about predestination, but I’m quite sure “looking for reprobates” isn’t a part of what they teach.

Just to tie this up:
That predestination is indeed a sublime mystery … is even externally visible in the inequality of the Divine choice

This (part of what I quoted earlier) is explained as referring to the mystery in God’s choice of who will receive more grace in life.

(Edited as per the CAF policy concerning political candidates.)
nkbeth
 
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