How do we know there is 1 God?

[AlbertBall]

Why do you even bother to post here?

Wait don’t bother to answer, ignore works very well.

Sorry to upset you, but that argument was incoherent nonsense. However you are correct burying ones head in the sand is always an option, though not a very strong position.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I suppose that’s true if everyone involved in the discussion agrees on the validity of the authority being appealed to. If not (to use our example), “The Catholic Church is correct in it’s teachings about there being only one God because the Catholic Church says so” is still a pretty weak argument.

As a Catholic it is good enough for me becuase saying this is the same say saying this is what God Teaches.

If you do not buy into that authority then why have a discussion about Catholic Teachings.

This thread is not about that though and appeals to reason by the use of philosophy. In no way have I used an appeal to authority so this is really a moot point in this thread as well as being a distraction, another things used by some when they do not really wish to discuss things (not say that you are doing this).

 

[geometer]

How do we know there is only 1 God and not many? How are we 100% sure?

Please don’t use Bible references in your response.

Do you have a miracle in mind that would require several?

 

[Fran65]

Albert Ball,
I think I know you - have we met before? And are you planning to stay for long? Are you the agnostic atheist or the atheist agnostic? Or maybe you’re agnostic but not atheist who merely lacks a belief in… Please remind me.

 

[Biggie]

Let me just contribute that to me the question seems to be a tautology. The singular nature of God is comprised in the Judaeo Christian vision of God, the prime being and prime mover. Other constructs have envisioned a pantheon of gods, but such visions required a relationship between the gods, a division of powers, even competition between the gods. The Jews conceived of one God, the prime mover, who exists before all else and brought all else into existence. This God’s name is I AM.

Obviously the existence of such a God is debated, but is it the OP’s point that there is a theology involving multiple gods that somehow is more rational than monotheism?

 

[geometer]

We know that there is nothing we can think of that is greater than God would be.

We know that we can think of God so He exists in our mind.

We know that something that exists in our mind and also exists in reality is a greater thing than just something that exists in our mind only.

So because God is greater than anything that we can think of He must exist in reality.

Did that help?

Many people do not like this argument.

Of course they do not like this.

We are commanded to know god in the first commandment of the decalogue, and the good news is that Jesus showed us how to do this.

He knew god as his father because he was sent, from place to place by our father in heaven. He said you can enter the reign of god by doing the same, and that is the only way to know god as your father, by being born of god.

God is never going to spring forth from logic, but if you spring forth from god, you know something…

See these videos:

moved by god

 

[Bear_Claw]

:thumbsup:Ah, yes I love that argument:thumbsup:, when someone disagrees with you it is because they do not understand/are ignorant, rather than them just having a different understanding than you do.

You miss the point of the rebuttal methinks.

It’s not the “understanding” that is the point, (which you seem to focus on) it’s “belief vs. knowledge.”

You seem to focus on the fact that the poster mentioned “understanding”. Rather focus on the difference between belief and knowledge…that’s the point.

 

[Bear_Claw]

1. We know that there is nothing we can think of that is greater than God would be.
2. We know that we can think of God so He exists in our mind.
3. We know that something that exists in our mind and also exists in reality is a greater thing than just something that exists in our mind only.
4. So because God is greater than anything that we can think of He must exist in reality.

Did that help?

Many people do not like this argument.

[Numbering mine]

Line 4 is where the logical fallacy some in…
Essentially you are saying just because you can imgine something that’s greater than anything else, it automatically manifests in reality.

Doesn’t make sense…hence the gibberish comment.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

[Numbering mine]

Line 4 is where the logical fallacy some in…
Essentially you are saying just because you can imgine something that’s greater than anything else, it automatically manifests in reality.

Doesn’t make sense…hence the gibberish comment.

Name this logical fallacy please. I do not agree that it is a fallacy but I see why those who chose not to not believe in God would be greatly against any use of reason to prove such a thing because then they have no defense for their choice.

And I know its got to be even harder to hear when it is coming from a vowed religious.

 

[Bear_Claw]

Name this logical fallacy please. I do not agree that it is a fallacy but I see why those who chose not to not believe in God would be greatly against any use of reason to prove such a thing because then they have no defense for their choice.

And I know its got to be even harder to hear when it is coming from a vowed religious.

All I can reall yo do is repeat my statement:“Just because you can imgine something that’s greater than anything else, it automatically manifests in reality.”

Can you not see how illogical this is? By your very words, my “Flying Spaghetti Monster” (Yeah, sorry I had to go there ) can be imagined of equal, or better strenght as your god, hence my F.S.M. also all of a sudden exist in reality.

Dude…that’s not use of reason…no matter who utters the words.

 

[geometer]

Name this logical fallacy please. I do not agree that it is a fallacy but I see why those who chose not to not believe in God would be greatly against any use of reason to prove such a thing because then they have no defense for their choice.

1. So because God is greater than anything that we can think of He must exist in reality.

This completely lacks any kind of method. You can say you think this is true, but how is thinking something is true informative about what exists with no experience of it?

Use the same method, if there is one, to prove the existence of something else.

 

[rick43235]

I suppose that’s true if everyone involved in the discussion agrees on the validity of the authority being appealed to. If not (to use our example), “The Catholic Church is correct in it’s teachings about there being only one God because the Catholic Church says so” is still a pretty weak argument.

As a Catholic it is good enough for me becuase saying this is the same say saying this is what God Teaches.

OK, whatever works for you.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

All I can reall yo do is repeat my statement:“Just because you can imgine something that’s greater than anything else, it automatically manifests in reality.”

Can you not see how illogical this is? By your very words, my “Flying Spaghetti Monster” (Yeah, sorry I had to go there ) can be imagined of equal, or better strenght as your god, hence my F.S.M. also all of a sudden exist in reality.

Dude…that’s not use of reason…no matter who utters the words.

You are setting up a strawman.

The argument does not say that.

You must take the argument as a whole.

Nice try though.

 

[Bear_Claw]

You are setting up a strawman.

The argument does not say that.

You must take the argument as a whole.

Nice try though.

I did actually take the whole argument into account, but okay, let’s look at your whole argument:

1. We know that there is nothing we can think of that is greater than God would be.

Sure, just imagine the most powerful thing that can ever be…we’ll call that god. Check.
My mental picture looks more like Megatron though…but more suped-up…and with invisibility and a harder-than-anything-imaginable armour.

1. We know that we can think of God so He exists in our mind.

So does Megatron, lord of the Decepticons. He’s alive and well, up here (taps head)

1. We know that something that exists in our mind and also exists in reality is a greater thing than just something that exists in our mind only.

Yes, an actual tree is greater than Lord Megatron because no matter how much I try to make Megatron attack the tree, the tree still stands when I’m through. I’m with you so far.

1. So because God is greater than anything that we can think of He must exist in reality.

Or quoted verbatim wit my imaginary figure:
So, because Lord Megatron is greater than anything that we can think of He must exist in reality.

See where, even if you take the whole argument into account, at point #4 the wheels still come off??
Just look at it logically and you’ll see…

 

[Biggie]

Dear Byz, I think the logical fallacy is in line 3 - begging the question. It is not self evident that what exists in reality and in the mind is greater than that which exists solely in the mind. What does exist in reality mean as opposed to existing conceptually? What does greater mean in this context? (Does a multiplicity of existence constitute superior existence?) What is the qualitative measure that comprises “greater”? Etc…

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I did actually take the whole argument into account, but okay, let’s look at your whole argument…

Not my argument. It is the Ontological argument of St. Anselm of Canterbury.

Dear Byz, I think the logical fallacy is in line 3 - begging the question. It is not self evident that what exists in reality and in the mind is greater than that which exists solely in the mind. What does exist in reality mean as opposed to existing conceptually? What does greater mean in this context? (Does a multiplicity of existence constitute superior existence?) What is the qualitative measure that comprises “greater”? Etc…

Yes, this is one of the arguments against St Anselm’s argument.

But as I said, I like this argument and it works for me.

One would need to read the whole Proslogion of St Anselm to really discuss it in whole and I have not read it in over a year.

If you or anyone else wishes to get into it I suggest that you read it and let me know so I can reread it and we can go from there.

 

[coolduude]

Obviously the existence of such a God is debated, but is it the OP’s point that there is a theology involving multiple gods that somehow is more rational than monotheism?

Basically, yes.
Let me restate the question, as we seem to have veered off topic.

How do we know that there is 1 (one) God and not a pantheon of multiple gods? Where’s the evidence? How is this proved?

And again, no references to the Bible please. I already explained why I don’t want Bible quotes.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Basically, yes.
Let me restate the question, as we seem to have veered off topic.

How do we know that there is 1 (one) God and not a pantheon of multiple gods? Where’s the evidence? How is this proved?

And again, no references to the Bible please. I already explained why I don’t want Bible quotes.

Read St Thomas Aquinas’ Summa Theologica.

Mainly these parts:

Frist Part, Question 2, all Articles (1-3) (Link)

First Part, Question 11, all Articles (1-4) (Link)

First Part, Question 12, all Artilces (1-13) (Link)

 

[Bear_Claw]

Not my argument. It is the Ontological argument of St. Anselm of Canterbury.

Okay, it’s the same thing though…only we’re finding holes in a Saint’s argument for the existence of god…

Yes, this is one of the arguments against St Anselm’s argument.
But as I said, I like this argument and it works for me.

So then it’s still totally subjective and hence the argument for the existence of god fails to be proven in both the scientifi and the philosophical realms…

Hmmm…okay.

 

[coolduude]

…both the scientifi[c] and the philosophical realms…

.

I must disagree. I don’t want to call you ignorant, but if you refuse to research the Eucharistic Miracles I won’t hesitate to say you are.

Also, look at the Miracle of San Genero.

Try to explain all those (start another thread for that if you wish).

But look at those. Surely this is a God.