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grannymh
Guest
We can demonstrate that humans have a spiritual principle by comparing humans with other species.
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atheistgirl
Guest
I understand and deeply respect how you feel.
Please don’t be offended at what I say next, but my experiences are the exact opposite.
I’ve had to say a final goodbye to several relatives.
Each time I did so, I knew, for certain, that was the end.
And I rejoiced at the life they had, the life they gave, and the memories.
But my certainty is we have this life and this life only.
Sarah x
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Estevao
Guest
^^^ That’s interesting. Do you have any thoughts on Father Damien and Dr. Josef Mengele meeting the same end on atheism?
lol, that website used to be called “Why does God hate amputees”. But I think the atheist runs into the why does got hate deputies problem first.
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Amandil
Guest
I empathize because used to think the same way.I understand and deeply respect how you feel.
Please don’t be offended at what I say next, but my experiences are the exact opposite.
I’ve had to say a final goodbye to several relatives.
Each time I did so, I knew, for certain, that was the end.
And I rejoiced at the life they had, the life they gave, and the memories.
But my certainty is we have this life and this life only.
Sarah x
But how do you reconcile the existence of life and the wealth of your current existence with the reality of non-existence? IOW, why are you here?
If the sum of all of your life experiences is just to end with that grave, what is the point of experiencing them at all?
How does your intellect and will not rebel at the thought?
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Estevao
Guest
I was too much of a coward to look at my mother in her coffin. Of course back then I was an atheist.
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atheistgirl
Guest
There’s nothing to reconcile.
I’m alive.
That’s it.
There is absolutely no ‘why’ - there is no reason for me to be here at all.
The universe neither knows nor cares.
I am no better or worse than any other life form that has evolved, just different, and on a genetic level not even that very different.
And like all living things, we are driven by our nature, once we come into being, to live and thrive and reproduce and succeed.
On one level, absolutely no point what so ever. None.
The Universe doesn’t know or care about me and in a few billion years this rock we’re on, who doesn’t know or care either, will implode
But that is to deny the simplest and most obvious fact of all.
Life itself.
It’s wonderful.
And once experienced, life itself gives us the drive to live on, reproduce and thrive.
If we can do that in a way that’s fun, makes us happy, and does as much good for others (and thereby ourselves!) along the way, so much the better.
Because they are perfectly in tune with the rhythms of nature, life and death.
I am so happy I am alive.
I recognize what a chance in a quadrillion it is that I am alive and me.
I make the most of that privilege because I know, in common with all life on this rock, it will end.
But what a beautiful rock to have experienced, what a beautiful world full of such fierce beauty to have experienced.
I know how lucky I am.
And I know it will end.
Even the very idea of wishing for my life to continue after death is somehow like an insult to the incredible privilege my one and only life really is.
Sarah x
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Estevao
Guest
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Estevao
Guest
Yes, you are very lucky, as am I, that I am not a Christian (formerly) in Mosul, for example. However having studied history in my spare time I have a rather different view of the beauty of life on this planet, particularly the common secularist claim that we are living in the best time in history.Because they are perfectly in tune with the rhythms of nature, life and death.
I am so happy I am alive.
I recognize what a chance in a quadrillion it is that I am alive and me.
I make the most of that privilege because I know, in common with all life on this rock, it will end.
But what a beautiful rock to have experienced, what a beautiful world full of such fierce beauty to have experienced.
I know how lucky I am.
And I know it will end.
Even the very idea of wishing for my life to continue after death is somehow like an insult to the incredible privilege my one and only life really is.
Sarah x
Death totals of 20th century conflicts:
- First World War (1914–18): 15 million
- Russian Civil War (1917–22):9 million
- Soviet Union, Stalin’s regime (1924–53):20 million
- Second World War (1937–45):55 million
- Chinese Civil War (1945–49):2.5 million
- People’s Republic of China, Mao Zedong’s regime (1949–75):40 million
- Tibet (1950 et seq.):600,000
- Congo Free State (1886–1908):8 million
- Mexico (1910–20):1 million
- Turkish massacres of Armenians (1915–23):1.5 million
- China (1917–28):800,000
- China, Nationalist era (1928–37):3.1 million
- Korean War (1950–53):2.8 million
- North Korea (1948 et seq.):2 million
- Rwanda and Burundi (1959–95):1.35 million
- Second Indochina War (1960–75):3.5 million
- Ethiopia (1962–92):400,000
- Nigeria (1966–70):1 million
- Bangladesh (1971):1.25 million
- Cambodia, Khmer Rouge (1975–78):1.65 million
- Mozambique (1975–92):1 million
- Afghanistan (1979–2001):1.8 million
- Iran–Iraq War (1980–88):1 million
- Sudan (1983 et seq.):1.9 million
- Kinshasa, Congo (1998 et seq.):3.8 million
- Philippines Insurgency (1899–1902):220,000
- Brazil (1900 et seq.):500,000
- Amazonia (1900–1912):250,000
- Portuguese colonies (1900–1925):325,000
- French colonies (1900–1940):200,000
- Japanese War (1904–5):130,000
- German East Africa (1905–7):175,000
- Libya (1911–31):125,000
- Balkan Wars (1912–13):140,000
- Greco–Turkish War (1919–22):250,000
- Spanish Civil War (1936–39):365,000
- Franco Regime (1939–75):100,000
- Abyssinian Conquest (1935–41):400,000
- Finnish War (1939–40):150,000
- Greek Civil War (1943–49):158,000
- Yugoslavia, Tito’s regime (1944–80):200,000
- First Indochina War (1945–54):400,000
- Colombia (1946–58):200,000
- India (1947):500,000
- Romania (1948–89):150,000
- Burma/Myanmar (1948 et seq.):130,000
- Algeria (1954–62):537,000
- Sudan (1955–72):500,000
- Guatemala (1960–96):200,000
- Indonesia (1965–66):400,000
- Uganda, Idi Amin’s regime (1972–79):300,000
- Vietnam, postwar Communist regime(1975 et seq.):430,000
- Angola (1975–2002):550,000
- East Timor, conquest by Indonesia (1975–99):200,000
- Lebanon (1975–90):150,000
- Cambodian Civil War (1978–91):225,000
- Iraq, Saddam Hussein (1979–2003):300,000
- Uganda (1979–86):300,000
- Kurdistan (1980s, 1990s):300,000
- Liberia (1989–97):150,000
- Iraq (1990– ):350,000
- Bosnia and Herzegovina (1992–95):175,000
- Somalia (1991 et seq.):400,000
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atheistgirl
Guest
I’m not sure what response you were hoping to elicit with that post, but for the record, I just smiled
Not at the horror and death man is capable of inflicting on man, but at the idea that you would think I attach myself in any way to ‘‘common secular claims’’
Sarah x
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Estevao
Guest
Don’t worry I was just making those bullet points it because I wanted to have it ready to post the next time I see this claim that we are living in the best time ever.I’m not sure what response you were hoping to elicit with that post, but for the record, I just smiled
Not at the horror and death man is capable of inflicting on man, but at the idea that you would think I attach myself in any way to ‘‘common secular claims’’
Sarah x
I suppose my point is that I would say I find it hard to affirm things on atheism like Dr. Josef Mengele and Father Damien meet the same fate, or that the perpetrators of the cataclysm of violence in the 20th century will go unpunished, that justice will never be done. One of the reasons I’m no longer an atheist I suppose.
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atheistgirl
Guest
Exactly what drives me and many others to work so tirelessly for justice (in it’s widest sense not just punishing criminals!) here!
In my world, there is no second chance.
If justice is not done here, there is no second chance for it to be done.
I don’t have the luxury of the mindset others do when they say ‘‘leave it to God’’
Sarah x
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Estevao
Guest
Alright but what’s really different than doing this or just sitting around watching Jerry Springer every day and living on welfare?Exactly what drives me and many others to work so tirelessly for justice (in it’s widest sense not just punishing criminals!) here!
In my world, there is no second chance.
If justice is not done here, there is no second chance for it to be done.
I don’t have the luxury of the mindset others do when they say ‘‘leave it to God’’
Sarah x
You know I’ve been spending a bit too much on the internet lately so I’m going to detach for a while but I’ll just speak as a former atheist: while I don’t really care for William Lane Craig’s version of Christian theism and conception of God, I was really struck when I read his book “reasonable faith” (one of the books that led me away from atheism) and the second chapter on the “absurdity of life without God”. I guess it introduced me to nihilistic thought…up until then I had just been coasting along in life, not really thinking about the meaning of life. Anyway the chapter is summarized in this 45 minute speech he gave here:
youtube.com/watch?v=rWRoJ9myovY
I think I’ll bow out of this thread now.
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Estevao
Guest
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atheistgirl
Guest
Do you really not know?
Honestly?
I think you do.
I think I’ve seen and read most everything WLC has produced.
I don’t find his arguments and ideas remotely convincing.
I’ve seen and heard them all before in various forms and they weren’t convincing then either.
What I do like about him is he showed a lot of respect for Catholics and the Catholic faith in several discussions I watched him take part in.
Sarah x
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Estevao
Guest
yea I met him once, it was clear how nice a person he was, and I learned that he has Charcot–Marie–Tooth disease, which hasn’t stopped him from producing so much quality scholarship. It blows my mind he gets such hatred from some internet atheists.I think I’ve seen and read most everything WLC has produced.
I don’t find his arguments and ideas remotely convincing.
I’ve seen and heard them all before in various forms and they weren’t convincing then either.
What I do like about him is he showed a lot of respect for Catholics and the Catholic faith in several discussions I watched him take part in.
Sarah x
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grannymh
Guest
I am not offended by honesty. We have different world views. That does not prohibit friendship. Nor does that prohibit sharing the joys of this life. My hope is that we continue to explore the meaning of human existence and the possibility that because we are so unique that there may be something beyond ordinary death. In the meantime, we can share the joy in life. We can celebrate goodness and love for others. We can seize the opportunity to help others. We can send good thoughts to each other.I understand and deeply respect how you feel.
Please don’t be offended at what I say next, but my experiences are the exact opposite.
I’ve had to say a final goodbye to several relatives.
Each time I did so, I knew, for certain, that was the end.
And I rejoiced at the life they had, the life they gave, and the memories.
But my certainty is we have this life and this life only.
Sarah x
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atheistgirl
Guest
I really feel compelled to give you an AMEN for that
I love the sentiments you have expressed here and totally agree with you.
Sarah x
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Ion
Guest
I wouldn’t like to be misunderstood. I’m happy for you that you are healthy and content but if the mommy-pig that my grandparents had at their farm would have been able to speak, would have said kind of the same thing…Aren’t you supposed to make a difference in this world?There’s nothing to reconcile.
I’m alive.
That’s it.
There is absolutely no ‘why’ - there is no reason for me to be here at all.
The universe neither knows nor cares.
I am no better or worse than any other life form that has evolved, just different, and on a genetic level not even that very different.
And like all living things, we are driven by our nature, once we come into being, to live and thrive and reproduce and succeed.
On one level, absolutely no point what so ever. None.
The Universe doesn’t know or care about me and in a few billion years this rock we’re on, who doesn’t know or care either, will implode
But that is to deny the simplest and most obvious fact of all.
Life itself.
It’s wonderful.
And once experienced, life itself gives us the drive to live on, reproduce and thrive.
If we can do that in a way that’s fun, makes us happy, and does as much good for others (and thereby ourselves!) along the way, so much the better.
Because they are perfectly in tune with the rhythms of nature, life and death.
I am so happy I am alive.
I recognize what a chance in a quadrillion it is that I am alive and me.
I make the most of that privilege because I know, in common with all life on this rock, it will end.
But what a beautiful rock to have experienced, what a beautiful world full of such fierce beauty to have experienced.
I know how lucky I am.
And I know it will end.
Even the very idea of wishing for my life to continue after death is somehow like an insult to the incredible privilege my one and only life really is.
Sarah x
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
But for most people it is completely natural to prefer everlasting life to everlasting death.For many of us, it is completely unnatural to believe in life after death.
Sarah x
Can’t understand how you know for a certainty there is no life after death.
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