How do women feel about chivalrious men?

[Image_of_God]

You must have had some bad experiences with women. I ofcourse would offer to pay my half on a first date, because that is the polite thing to do. I’ve never had a decent guy actually accept my offer to pay. I also have never asked a man on a date. You seem to view women negatively and expect to be taken advantage of -using words such as doormat and sucker.

I’m curious as to how you feel about women being stay at home moms and the husband being the sole financial supporter of the family?

I wish a parent in my family was stay at home when I was younger. When I was little, I always stayed home by myself. There was nothing to do. Both my parents went to work and just left us at home. I love them, but every time I would tell them, “I wish you would stay home sometimes,” they would get angry and say “I have bills to pay!”

Is it to much to ask for a parent to stay home sometimes?

 

[Larowyn]

"jmcrae:

If that’s what you think of the women that you ask out, then why do you even bother to ask them out?

I don’t ask any girls out for dates. I don’t know any single Catholic girls who are my age and I don’t want to play Stubborn Evangelist Man at every date.

If you define a gentleman opening a car door or buying dinner for his lady as “abuse” or “being taken advantage of” you are on a FAR different wavelength than the rest of us. Perhaps you have had some relationship issues that have made you feel this way. But I am puzzled that you would view acts of courtesy in such an extremely negative light.

Eric_Olsen:

Also - There is nothing wrong with a man holding the door or chair for another woman or a man paying for dinner. When I was dataing I did it. And if the woman was offended, then rest assurred I would not date her again. Women like that, at least to me, have self esteem issues and take the feminist **** way to seriously.

My only complaint was with the expectation of the man to pay for all of the dates, regardless of who asked for the date. If the man fails to open the car door for the woman then making a big deal over it is frivolous. It’s more important and chivalrous for the person who asked for the date to be attentive to and respectful of the person he or she is dating than whether trite old dating rules are followed carefully. Women can and should be able to be chivalrous as well; women are equal to men these days and I play video games that have female knights.

I’d hold the door for someone I’m dating if she was following behind (I do it for everyone behind me irregardless of whether I know them), but if she had to open the car door for herself once in a while it wouldn’t kill her, though the hordes of angry feminists would probably hang me.

 

[Image_of_God]

If there is no honor, tenderness, and mutuality in the courtship, how can those things be practiced in married life? Honoring and respecting women is not “being taken advantage of.” These days it seems we are so concerned with absolute equality that we have forgotten we are called to be *servants *to one another, which was the chivalrous ideal. The knight or lord was expected to behave with greater courtesy because he had been placed in a high position, not use his power to abuse those under him. Nowadays we run from anything that looks even remotely like servitude or humility, and I think it’s a real shame.

I think you bring up an interesting point here. I think myself and many people today have a problem with obedience, servitude and humility. Whenever my mom calls me for help, I always tell her to “go call someone else.” As she gets older, the thought of those words becomes even more horrifying. I think to myself; ’ soon my mother will need me to take care of her. Is this how I will act then?’ But it’s truly difficult to change. I’ve been like that since forever.

 

[ghaybyers1]

I know what you’re saying, Image of God, and as a soon-to-be Catholic, I quickly became appalled at the attitude I all too often took with my family.

Oh, how learning the virtue of Charity has changed my life, and our relationships! It’s a slow process, but trust me- with time, our interactions with one another can change!

 

[ruslan]

I’d hold the door for someone I’m dating if she was following behind (I do it for everyone behind me irregardless of whether I know them), but if she had to open the car door for herself once in a while it wouldn’t kill her, though the hordes of angry feminists would probably hang me.

It’s regardless - not irregardless.

I say this with charity.

:harp: :heaven:

 

[cecilia97]

You can still be loving and not chivalrous, for the most part, but it is always special to have both.** I think love is the foremost important thing and chivalry which is a certain way of expressing that love is secondary. **But hey, he might surprise you one day…

How true! I was married to a man with all the right fine manners. It was a facade and underneath he really couldn’t have cared less. That doesn’t mean I don’t still look for chivalry now, though. I would want the whole package.

 

[jc-servant]

As a woman in my 50s, I can assure you that the vast majority of us of my generation were not “radically obnoxious” about men holding doors, etc. As usual, the obnoxious ones made their way into the spotlight while the rest of us, the “silent majority,” went quietly about our business, thanking those who showed us respect and courtesy. And I’m a lifelong Michiganian, BTW. I don’t know what “little things that just didn’t matter” you are referring to about salaries, hiring, etc., but imagine for a moment that you are a woman working in a factory during the 1960’s, and that you doing the exact same work as anyone else, male or female…but the men are making 15% more. Now imagine that you have been there for ten years with an excellent work record, but when the foreman job comes up, your application is denied solely because you are a woman. Now tell me how that “doesn’t matter.”

You clearly did not understand my post. From what you wrote it looks like your understanding was exactly the opposite of what I intended. I was not painting all women of a certain age with the radical feminist brush but rather stating that those certain obnoxious ones were leaving the public spotlight. I agree with you that hiring and salaries are among the important points. My post intended to point out that some of those same women picked fights over small things like a man holding the door that were not important.

 

[Image_of_God]

I don’t ask any girls out for dates. I don’t know any single Catholic girls who are my age and I don’t want to play Stubborn Evangelist Man at every date.

My only complaint was with the expectation of the man to pay for all of the dates, regardless of who asked for the date. If the man fails to open the car door for the woman then making a big deal over it is frivolous. It’s more important and chivalrous for the person who asked for the date to be attentive to and respectful of the person he or she is dating than whether trite old dating rules are followed carefully. ** Women can and should be able to be chivalrous as well; women are equal to men these days and I play video games that have female knights.**

I’d hold the door for someone I’m dating if she was following behind (I do it for everyone behind me irregardless of whether I know them), but if she had to open the car door for herself once in a while it wouldn’t kill her, though the hordes of angry feminists would probably hang me.

Larowyn, you are not wrong, but you do have a different belief then everyone else on this thread. And there is nothing wrong with disagreeing…as long as we can disagree in charity.

To the bolded statement: That thinking isn’t wrong, but I think differently, as do most everyone else here. Peter (I assume) would disagree with you.
1 Peter 3:7
NAB Translation
“Likewise, you husbands should live with your wives in understanding, showing honor to the weaker female sex, since we are joint heirs of the gift of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.”

Douay-Rheims Translation
“Ye husbands, likewise dwelling with them according to knowledge, giving honor to the female as to the weaker vessel and as to the *co-heirs *of the grace of life: that your prayers be not hindered.”

I don’t know which translation is the closest to the original idea, so I put both. But to answer the bold statement, Peter says that yes we are equal, but we are NOT the same. I don’t think anyone is saying that women shouldn’t be chivalrious. I think, however, that chivalry would be different for a woman than for that of a man, at least that’s what Peter thinks. I know Peter is not talking of chivalry directly, but the idea is there (And I also know that I will be accused by some of misinterpreting and twisting the verse, but I honestly don’t think I am). Why shouldn’t we serve women in a different way than they us. After all, it is a woman that is the greatest of all creation. It is a woman who is the Queen of Heaven, which we serve and call Our Lady. Aren’t all these women on Earth her princesses?

 

[lizaanne]

You can still be loving and not chivalrous, for the most part, but it is always special to have both. I think love is the foremost important thing and chivalry which is a certain way of expressing that love is secondary. But hey, he might surprise you one day…

Oh, he truly is the sweetest thing I’ve ever known! If you are ever sitting behind a couple at Mass, she has her head covered, he is wearing a black leather jacket, and he leans over to kiss her gently on the shoulder, or sweetly adjust her veil for her “so the angels don’t see your hair” , then that would be us. I’ve never known anyone to be so incredibly in love with me - something I fail to understand actually, but ok, I’ll go with it.

So I don’t give him a hard time about the chivalry thing. He makes up for it in other areas. (But I would still love it if he some day got the whole chivalry thing )

It’s regardless - not irregardless.

I say this with charity.

:harp: :heaven:

Ok - this made me laugh so hard I scared the cat off the desk!!! LOL!!!

~Liza

 

[ruslan]

Ok - this made me laugh so hard I scared the cat off the desk!!! LOL!!!~Liza

My apologies to the you and the cat. LOL

 

[Larowyn]

It’s regardless - not irregardless.

I say this with charity.

:harp: :heaven:

Have you not looked up the definition? They both mean the same thing but irregardless is an incorrect construct that leaked its way into academia. It’s like how people misuse “ain’t”.

 

[Image_of_God]

Oh, he truly is the sweetest thing I’ve ever known! If you are ever sitting behind a couple at Mass, she has her head covered, he is wearing a black leather jacket, and he leans over to kiss her gently on the shoulder, or sweetly adjust her veil for her “so the angels don’t see your hair” , then that would be us. I’ve never known anyone to be so incredibly in love with me - something I fail to understand actually, but ok, I’ll go with it.

So I don’t give him a hard time about the chivalry thing. He makes up for it in other areas. (But I would still love it if he some day got the whole chivalry thing )

Ok - this made me laugh so hard I scared the cat off the desk!!! LOL!!!

~Liza

Ms. Liza, that’s the most beautiful thing I’ve ever heard. St. Paul must rejoice every time he hears that.

 

[Image_of_God]

I know what you’re saying, Image of God, and as a soon-to-be Catholic, I quickly became appalled at the attitude I all too often took with my family.

Oh, how learning the virtue of Charity has changed my life, and our relationships! It’s a slow process, but trust me- with time, our interactions with one another can change!

I’m not alone.

 

[ruslan]

Have you not looked up the definition? They both mean the same thing but irregardless is an incorrect construct that leaked its way into academia. It’s like how people misuse “ain’t”.

Here’s the definition from the American Heritage dictionary:

Nonstandard Regardless.
ETYMOLOGY: Probably blend of irrespective and regardless.
USAGE NOTE: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir– prefix and –less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so.

This is said with charity and as OT as I will get on this thread. If you would like to discuss the English language - we can start another thread. God bless you.

 

[ruslan]

Have you not looked up the definition? They both mean the same thing but irregardless is an incorrect construct that leaked its way into academia. It’s like how people misuse “ain’t”.

I can assure you I know the definition.

And, by the way, I still love chivalrous men!

 

[ChristinaM]

I am VERY happy! Getting married in 12 days to my real-life “knight in shining armor” and could not be happier!

Image of God - we are using that reading from 1st Peter in our wedding. It is very beautiful, and yes, that is what I think of when I think of the concept of “chivalry” - not just social pleasantries, but real self-sacrifice that comes from a loving heart. And you are right, humility is a virtue which many (including myself) are lacking. I also have noticed that it is more difficult to treat my family with charity than it is to treat people out in the “world.” But charity begins at home!

 

[ElizabethPH]

I think perhaps that it is in how one is raised. If you are raised to respect women in a certain chivalrous manner it is bound to influence and become something that is natural to do without question. I think it would be difficult to learn this behaviour once one has learned otherwise; but I must say there may still be hope for those that are of a certain age where they may still be influenced. Also if you are around folks who believe in these good manners they are bound to rub off. Hopefully.

 

[Belgarion]

OK,
People say chivalry is dead. People ask “Why can’t women be chivalrous?”
Those people are lazy.

My views on chivalry are the opposite of the average teenager.
I’ll believe that ladies should indeed go first (Into a room, not a dangerous situation! LOL! Don’t mistake my meaning!)
I believe that a guy should hold the door open for a woman…or sometimes for multiple women…lol…Even to the point of being stuck holding that door, at least until the next gentlmen decides to take over.
I’ll pay for a round of mini-golf myself…when there are six other people playing… …becase most of them are girls (Ok, there’s another reason, but I won’t discuss it anywhere but here)

Why do I believe this? I don’t know.
But its good manners for SOME reason.

But it is indeed selfless to be chivalrous. And isn’t that what God calls us to do?

Besides, I’ll just look at it like I’m repaying women for being the ones that give birth.
That’s reason enough I think!

 

[whatevergirl]

OK,
People say chivalry is dead. People ask “Why can’t women be chivalrous?”
Those people are lazy.

My views on chivalry are the opposite of the average teenager.
I’ll believe that ladies should indeed go first (Into a room, not a dangerous situation! LOL! Don’t mistake my meaning!)
I believe that a guy should hold the door open for a woman…or sometimes for multiple women…lol…Even to the point of being stuck holding that door, at least until the next gentlmen decides to take over.
I’ll pay for a round of mini-golf myself…when there are six other people playing… …becase most of them are girls (Ok, there’s another reason, but I won’t discuss it anywhere but here)

Why do I believe this? I don’t know.
But its good manners for SOME reason.

But it is indeed selfless to be chivalrous. And isn’t that what God calls us to do?

Besides, I’ll just look at it like I’m repaying women for being the ones that give birth.
That’s reason enough I think!

Excellent post-Belgarion! I think you hit it…‘manners.’ Where have basic manners gone to, these days? I am raising my kids to have manners, but so many of their friends have NONE. No manners with adults, teachers, their own parents…so, to suddenly pull out their bag of manners on a date would definitely seem foreign to them.

My son is not permitted to speak to me and his dad any way he chooses, but we have had to correct it a few times. Now he knows better. Same with our daughter. Hopefully, the extension of being gracious to loved ones at home, will transcend out of the home, when they both have love interests in their lives, and/or pursue the joys of dating. I definitely think that manners has gone out the window!

 

[Denae]

We need more of them!!!