How do women feel about chivalrious men?

[Magicsilence]

While reading through this thread, my reaction could be summed up as just “WOW!”.

In England, what you seem to call ‘chivalry’ is just seen as common courtesy, at least throughout my lifetime.

I wouldn’t DREAM of not holding a door open for a lady (or anybody!), or not standing up to allow an elderly person to sit.

As for paying for meals with a date, I wouldn’t allow her to even reach for her purse, let alone split it 50/50.

And the whole “wedding ring in the bottom of the champagne glass” from spiderman 3? I loved it

I don’t think we have any hard-core, feminist, “I can open the car door myself” women in this country. Every lady I have EVER met has adored chivalry in men.

 

[sanctamaria17]

I absolutely love them and would not date someone who wasn’t.

My best guy friends are all very chivalrous towards me. I haven’t been on a date in over a year, yet when with them, I’ve never had to buy a coffee, open a door, pay for dinner, walk back to my dorm alone at 2 AM. They are so sweet and protective of us girls, it makes them very endearing.

 

[Sierrah]

This is a sensitive topic for many, but I just wanted to ask. Some women feel that such men are degrading them. That’s just some of the things I’ve felt that other women believe. So how do you feel about these type of men (if their “chivalry” be sincere)?

If a woman is in her right mind she’ll like a chivalrious man and respect him all the more for the thoughtfullness and attention he shows her. If she doesn’t care for them she’s stupid. Living in the midwest I’ve run into lots of chivalrious men. It’s when I travel to the coast or other countries they seem to disappear. Anyway to all the men out there with a code of honor, chivalry or politeness toward women…I salute you and say thanks.

 

[Larowyn]

No Way.

If you are asked on a date, you do not pay. You are invited, accept graciously.

You can always *reciprocate *at a later time with an invitation to a home cooked meal, pic-nic, tickets you have to a theater production, etc.

This is what I’ve been trying to say all along but people got angry at me and said that I’d never marry.

 

[jmcrae]

This is what I’ve been trying to say all along but people got angry at me and said that I’d never marry.

Of course it goes without saying that nice girls don’t do the asking.

 

[Larowyn]

Of course it goes without saying that nice girls don’t do the asking.

That’s bull and you know it. Besides, it’s not my fault if God put all the single Catholic girls on the other side of the country.

 

[CountryMom27]

Of course it goes without saying that nice girls don’t do the asking.

Sorry, I disagree. For the first few dates, yes. Beyond that, a woman who always waits to be asked out will be spending a lot of lonely nights by the phone.

I know I nudged my DH along when we were dating. There’s a fine line between nudging and pushing, and certainly a lady doesn’t push, nor does she tease (but she can be coy - see what I mean about a fine line?). As my dear mother, God bless her soul, used to say - “Men/Husbands are like plants: they need a little neglect. The key is to know how little.”

 

[Belgarion]

Formally asking for a date is the guy’s job. Though I’m sure I’d find it somewhat attractive if a women took some initiative at some point.
However, if you’re actively dating or courting a young woman, she can ask for a date if she wants. But if you’re looking to start a relationship, the guy has to take charge.
It is a guy’s responsibility to be strong for his wife. So likewise its a guy’s responsibility to be strong and take charge when it comes to at least ASKING for a date.
Shy guys aren’t bad, but if a shy guy asks a girl out, and she says yes, that breeds confidence.
Confidence = good.

 

[cecilia97]

While reading through this thread, my reaction could be summed up as just “WOW!”.

In England, what you seem to call ‘chivalry’ is just seen as common courtesy, at least throughout my lifetime.

I wouldn’t DREAM of not holding a door open for a lady (or anybody!), or not standing up to allow an elderly person to sit.

As for paying for meals with a date, I wouldn’t allow her to even reach for her purse, let alone split it 50/50.

And the whole “wedding ring in the bottom of the champagne glass” from spiderman 3? I loved it

I don’t think we have any hard-core, feminist, “I can open the car door myself” women in this country. Every lady I have EVER met has adored chivalry in men.

Hey Magicsilence,

I think we have very, VERY few women in our country who don’t like doors opened for them, either. What we have are a very small and LOUD minority of the women who came of age in the sixties who might have a problem with it. Blessedly, us younger gals love courteous guys.

And I agree with you that what we call chivalry is really just common courtesy. I expect it. It’s indeed a deal-breaker for me if a guy is not chivalrous. If that’s me being snotty…SO BE IT.

I’ve briefly traveled in Europe and the UK. One gentleman I met in Belgium told me he could tell I was from Texas because of my manners. That’s the kind of stereotype I’m proud to exhibit!

 

[Larowyn]

Formally asking for a date is the guy’s job. Though I’m sure I’d find it somewhat attractive if a women took some initiative at some point.
However, if you’re actively dating or courting a young woman, she can ask for a date if she wants. But if you’re looking to start a relationship, the guy has to take charge.
It is a guy’s responsibility to be strong for his wife. So likewise its a guy’s responsibility to be strong and take charge when it comes to at least ASKING for a date.
Shy guys aren’t bad, but if a shy guy asks a girl out, and she says yes, that breeds confidence.
Confidence = good.

And if she says no, he’ll probably retreat even further into his own insecurities and die a lonely old man.

 

[Belgarion]

And if she says no, he’ll probably retreat even further into his own insecurities and die a lonely old man.

Wrong

Simply judging by this assumption of yours, I can clearly see your flawed perspective.

I myself happen to be a very VERY shy guy. When I was in the sixth grade, I asked a girl out and she said no. I kept asking her and asking her though and she eventually said yes.
Granted, I was young at the time and it wasn’t really “Dating”
Shy people learn to deal, and learn to get back on that horse when they fall off.

You obviously underestimate the resolve, and adaptability of shy people.

Once he starts asking, it will become easier to overcome the shyness that had plagued him. Regardless of the answer.

However this isn’t the issue we are discussing here.
We are simply discussing Chivalrous men.
And we’ve already established that women like chivalrous men. Therefore any argument against that is either coming from a woman who wishes to be a man, or man who is lazy.

Or perhaps a man who does not think women deserve to be treated with chivalry. Possibly due to some emotional trauma in the past.

 

[Larowyn]

Wrong

Simply judging by this assumption of yours, I can clearly see your flawed perspective.

I myself happen to be a very VERY shy guy. When I was in the sixth grade, I asked a girl out and she said no. I kept asking her and asking her though and she eventually said yes.
Granted, I was young at the time and it wasn’t really “Dating”
Shy people learn to deal, and learn to get back on that horse when they fall off.

You obviously underestimate the resolve, and adaptability of shy people.

And if I told you what my Catholic high school experience was like in regards to girls, you would undoubtedly call me a liar because it would completely wreck your assumption about the resolve of shy people. You’d also think I was lying because Catholics seem to believe that Catholic schools are the ultimate in education and its faculties can do no wrong.

However this isn’t the issue we are discussing here.
We are simply discussing Chivalrous men.
And we’ve already established that women like chivalrous men. Therefore any argument against that is either coming from a woman who wishes to be a man, or man who is lazy.

Or perhaps a man who does not think women deserve to be treated with chivalry. Possibly due to some emotional trauma in the past.

What has not yet been established is what being chivalrous pertains to. Most people here would have you believe that it involves the woman getting a free meal and expecting men to make the first move in initiating a date. I would have you believe that it involves both parties in a date having respect for each other and being attentive to each other and showing integrity, and has nothing to do with traditional gender roles.

 

[Guitar]

Courtesy is always attractive.

Of course, it works both ways. When the man holds the door open for the woman, she doesn’t just sail on through it - she catches it on her hand and lets the man come in behind her, without letting it close on him.

And when the man opens the car door for the woman, she doesn’t just sit there in the car - she leans over and opens his side, so that he can get in easily, as well.

Absolutely. And you smile and say “thank you” and never take these things for granted.

The only time I have ever had any problem with a man trying to be chivalrous is when help is forced on me, rather than offered, for a task that is properly my responsibility or that I particularly want to carry out myself (i.e. a job to be done, nothing to do with courtesies such as door opening) or where his behaviour gives the message that he is a better judge than I of what I’m physically capable of. (But then that bothers me whether it is done by a man or a woman.)

To give an example, I have a bad back but have been lugging musical and electronic instruments and test gear around all my working life. I know what I can and can’t lift, and this is backed up by experience designing systems for field use by mixed gender groups of soldiers, using standard ergonomic data. If I can’t lift something, I’ll ask for help. If I have lifted it, that means I know it is safe to do so. When a man rushes over and forcibly takes something out of my hands and says, “here, let me, that’s too heavy for you”, that in effect says, “you don’t know what you’re capable of, you need me to decide that for you, and you will do something silly if I don’t step in and stop you.” Now I would never respond rudely to a man that does this, because it is motivated by kindness, and if it’s a one-off I usually let it go. If it’s someone I will work with regularly, though, I explain that I’ve lived with my back for a long time and know its limits, but that the gentleman can rest assured I will certainly ask for and be grateful for his help at those times when I do need it.

 

[Belgarion]

And if I told you what my Catholic high school experience was like in regards to girls, you would undoubtedly call me a liar because it would completely wreck your assumption about the resolve of shy people. You’d also think I was lying because Catholics seem to believe that Catholic schools are the ultimate in education and its faculties can do no wrong.

You are making so many false and baseless assumptions, its rather amusing.
First, we have Catholic schools here in OR that I don’t like. Marist High school is supposedly a Catholic school…more like a public school that charges tuition in my opinion. There religious studies there are seriously lacking apparently.
However, this particular point has no relevance on this particular topic. What does a school’s faculty have to do with chivalry?
However your high school drama played out, its obvious you were at the very least changed by it in some way. Perhaps your views of chivalry stem from there?
Regardless, my “assumption” about shy guys is not really an assumption at all. I’m shy to this day, and I know I need to man up and stop being that way. However, I still have trouble doing it, I’m too passive.

What has not yet been established is what being chivalrous pertains to. Most people here would have you believe that it involves the woman getting a free meal and expecting men to make the first move in initiating a date. I would have you believe that it involves both parties in a date having respect for each other and being attentive to each other and showing integrity, and has nothing to do with traditional gender roles.

Of course you have to portray simple acts such as paying for a date’s meal as the woman getting “a free meal”. I’m surprised you don’t think of it as a bribe on the man’s part.
It is courtesy. Simple.
Small acts of charity and kindness show the woman that you are indeed worth her time and her feelings.
Of course if she were to take advantage of this and try to get, as you put it, a free meal, then that would be wrong. So yes there is some need for courtesy from the woman as well.
But you’re behavior seems to show that perhaps you think that your acts of kindess and charity shouldn’t go unrewarded.
That’s a rather selfish attitude if you are indeed thinking that way. Though i’m only guessing so.
I hold doors open for random girls at stores, I pay for what I can when I am somewhere with a girl (or girls)
To touch a little on the dating part of this topic, I have not yet been out on a date. But whenever I am with the girl that I am hoping to court, I hold doors for her, etc etc.
Do my actions go rewarded? Not really. Not yet at least, and I am certainly not thinking about it at the time.
However, doing so is an act of kindness as I said before. It shows her that you care enough about her to do those little things. Women are a precious gift for us men, and we must treat them as so.
I sincerely pity anyone who does not think that way.

 

[Larowyn]

You are making so many false and baseless assumptions, its rather amusing.
First, we have Catholic schools here in OR that I don’t like. Marist High school is supposedly a Catholic school…more like a public school that charges tuition in my opinion. There religious studies there are seriously lacking apparently.
However, this particular point has no relevance on this particular topic. What does a school’s faculty have to do with chivalry?
However your high school drama played out, its obvious you were at the very least changed by it in some way. Perhaps your views of chivalry stem from there?
Regardless, my “assumption” about shy guys is not really an assumption at all. I’m shy to this day, and I know I need to man up and stop being that way. However, I still have trouble doing it, I’m too passive.

You, like everyone else who has felt it necessary to attack me here, have ignored what I had to say about chivalry and have intentionally confused the issue time and time again. It’s like you just cannot admit when you are wrong. I answered your claim about shyness and you immediately assumed that I was using my high school experiences as an excuse to not be chivalrous.

Of course you have to portray simple acts such as paying for a date’s meal as the woman getting “a free meal”. I’m surprised you don’t think of it as a bribe on the man’s part.
It is courtesy. Simple

I don’t know how many times it has been, but I have made it more than abundantly clear that I do not think that it is right for women to get free meals just because they are women. I have tried to endure the arrogant comments and harassment sent my way by people who consider themselves charitable Catholics in order to get them to understand that I think it should not fall to the man to pay for the date just because he is a man but rather it should fall to the one who asks for the date, except when the couple on the date agree to some other arrangement. It is not rude and discourteous if the woman has to pay for all or part of a date if she asks for the date. Traditional gender roles that call for the man to be the only one who can ask someone out on a date, the one who has to pay for all of the dates, the one who also has to open the car door for the woman without fail, and the one who has to propose marriage are obsolete. Men and women are equal in all things and dating is no exception.

How many times must I repeat myself before something clicks?

Small acts of charity and kindness show the woman that you are indeed worth her time and her feelings.
Of course if she were to take advantage of this and try to get, as you put it, a free meal, then that would be wrong. So yes there is some need for courtesy from the woman as well.
But you’re behavior seems to show that perhaps you think that your acts of kindess and charity shouldn’t go unrewarded.
That’s a rather selfish attitude if you are indeed thinking that way. Though i’m only guessing so.
I hold doors open for random girls at stores, I pay for what I can when I am somewhere with a girl (or girls)
To touch a little on the dating part of this topic, I have not yet been out on a date. But whenever I am with the girl that I am hoping to court, I hold doors for her, etc etc.
Do my actions go rewarded? Not really. Not yet at least, and I am certainly not thinking about it at the time.
However, doing so is an act of kindness as I said before. It shows her that you care enough about her to do those little things. Women are a precious gift for us men, and we must treat them as so.
I sincerely pity anyone who does not think that way.

Your behavior tells me that you are just building strawmen to tear down in order to boost your wounded ego. Get over yourself already. You are not an honorable knight, you are just some troll on an internet forum trying to assert his superiority over other men who do not think it right or proper for men to emasculate themselves and be lapdogs in order to win the heart of a woman. So what if you hold doors open for random women. Big whoop! Do you think you deserve an award for that? Where I’m from, it is considered rude to not hold the door open for anyone, and I hold the door for anyone following behind me into an establishment or leaving one.

Kissing up to a woman and doing things seen in old movies while on a date is not the essence of chivalry; respect, courtesy, and attentiveness is, and men aren’t the only people who can observe chivalry. The end.

Go back to GameFAQs; they don’t have enough trolls there.

 

[funnyyetsavvy]

I would say that chivalrous men are to be prized…

If a gentleman treats me with respect, I will obviously show appreciation. If we dine out and I tell him what I’d like and he orders for us, I find that thoughtful. If he opens my doors and offers me a hand to step out of the car, I express my thanks. Do I need his help? No, I often exit my own vehicle when I drive alone, but it is a wonderful priviledge to be treated with courtesy and deference - it says “You are important to me and I want you to be treated well.”

In terms of paying, the gentleman pays when he askes me out. If I ask him, I plan to pay, and if he offers, I acquiece politely and with thanks, or I tell him that perhaps next time he could pay. The point is, I do not act insulted, or put off by the offer. That would be rude.

I would not be interested in a man who did not act like a man. I’m not a man! I was created to be different. I want to be feminine and I want the gentleman to be masculine…and I am indeed an assertive, outgoing personality BUT having said that, I LOVE to be around men who will treat me like a woman.

Just sayin’

 

[Lexee15]

I would say that chivalrous men are to be prized…

If a gentleman treats me with respect, I will obviously show appreciation. If we dine out and I tell him what I’d like and he orders for us, I find that thoughtful. If he opens my doors and offers me a hand to step out of the car, I express my thanks. Do I need his help? No, I often exit my own vehicle when I drive alone, but it is a wonderful priviledge to be treated with courtesy and deference - it says “You are important to me and I want you to be treated well.”

In terms of paying, the gentleman pays when he askes me out. If I ask him, I plan to pay, and if he offers, I acquiece politely and with thanks, or I tell him that perhaps next time he could pay. The point is, I do not act insulted, or put off by the offer. That would be rude.

I would not be interested in a man who did not act like a man. I’m not a man! I was created to be different. I want to be feminine and I want the gentleman to be masculine…and I am indeed an assertive, outgoing personality BUT having said that, I LOVE to be around men who will treat me like a woman.

Just sayin’

I couldn’t have put it better myself:thumbsup:!!!

 

[sidonius]

No Way.

If you are asked on a date, you do not pay. You are invited, accept graciously.

You can always *reciprocate *at a later time with an invitation to a home cooked meal, pic-nic, tickets you have to a theater production, etc.

A truly wise response!

 

[elts1956]

It depends on what your definition of chivalry might be. I personally love it when men are courteous and respectful of all women, older persons and those with infirmities. I extend the same courtesy back.

I live in Texas (and previously in Oklahoma) where you can tell a man who moved recently from “up North” or sometimes from California because he runs ahead of you and lets the door slam in your face. (This is just our Texas ladies at lunch theory.) The real Texans still run ahead to open the door or hold the elevator. They ask you if they can assist you with your large packages or your car trouble and give a little wave of thank you when you let them merge onto the highway, etc.

I have never seriously dated any man who was not considerate and courteous, so I know there are still plenty of them out there who are not my own relatives.

I think that the generation of women who were so radically obnoxious when a man tried to hold the door are heading into their 50s and 60s and out of the public spotlight so good riddance. I always thought that many of them were hypersensitive over little things that just didn’t matter with regards to gaining parity in salaries or hiring or educational opportunities. Now if someone calls me sweetie and pats my rear, well that is a whole different thing. Holding the door is not patronizing to me.

I was raised in the more genteel era of the 40s and 50s when children were taught to show respect to all people. We were told to say “Thank you”, to hold the doors for others and ALWAYS to help the elderly. During my teen years, all the guys were chivalrous; opening car doors for we “girls”, walking on the outside of the sidewalk, (so the slop thrown out the windows hit them instead of us. ), helping us lift heavy objects. In a word, they were protective of us and we knew we were cherished. I miss that. I will take an opened door any day over one slammed in my face.

However Servant, I don’t know if I would agree today to being called The Little Woman.

 

[Belgarion]

You, like everyone else who has felt it necessary to attack me here, have ignored what I had to say about chivalry and have intentionally confused the issue time and time again. It’s like you just cannot admit when you are wrong. I answered your claim about shyness and you immediately assumed that I was using my high school experiences as an excuse to not be chivalrous.

Your points are all over the place, no one can make heads or tails of what you’re trying to say. I said I was guessing about your high school experience being the issue behind your bitter outlook on chivalry. Learn to read.
However, you have tried to make a point about something, and failed. You made no point other than “If I told you ___ you would call me a liar”
You make no sense.

I don’t know how many times it has been, but I have made it more than abundantly clear that I do not think that it is right for women to get free meals just because they are women. I have tried to endure the arrogant comments and harassment sent my way by people who consider themselves charitable Catholics in order to get them to understand that I think it should not fall to the man to pay for the date just because he is a man but rather it should fall to the one who asks for the date, except when the couple on the date agree to some other arrangement. It is not rude and discourteous if the woman has to pay for all or part of a date if she asks for the date. Traditional gender roles that call for the man to be the only one who can ask someone out on a date, the one who has to pay for all of the dates, the one who also has to open the car door for the woman without fail, and the one who has to propose marriage are obsolete. Men and women are equal in all things and dating is no exception.

How many times must I repeat myself before something clicks?

How many times have I attacked you? You must be in a really bad mood to be reading what I am writing and thinking I’m attacking you. If I were attacking, you’d know it.
However, you have brought no particular support for your argument. You just think things should be the way you want because you want them that way.
You have brought no argument to that table.
Showing courtesy during a date is not obsolete.
You’re basically saying being sweet and charitable to a woman is wrong!
Why?
I’ll admit some women don’t deserve it, but it IS considered polite to do so.
If you don’t think its acceptable for you to pay for a simple dinner date, then I believe you will be spending many quiet dinners by yourself at home.
It must be a sick world that you live in.
But think what you want. I’ll continue to open car doors, and pay for meals when I go out on dates. Its because I consider it my responsibility. And it is my honor to do so.

Your behavior tells me that you are just building strawmen to tear down in order to boost your wounded ego. Get over yourself already. You are not an honorable knight, you are just some troll on an internet forum trying to assert his superiority over other men who do not think it right or proper for men to emasculate themselves and be lapdogs in order to win the heart of a woman. So what if you hold doors open for random women. Big whoop! Do you think you deserve an award for that? Where I’m from, it is considered rude to not hold the door open for anyone, and I hold the door for anyone following behind me into an establishment or leaving one.

Kissing up to a woman and doing things seen in old movies while on a date is not the essence of chivalry; respect, courtesy, and attentiveness is, and men aren’t the only people who can observe chivalry. The end.

Go back to GameFAQs; they don’t have enough trolls there.

Learn to read. I believe I said I’m not getting rewarded for doing those kind acts. I’m not expecting one.
I am no knight, I am no troll.
I am a regular here a CAF, and I do believe my opinon on this is shared with the majority. You are the minority here, and your argument is therefore ineffective.
Anyways, I DO hold door open for others, including guys. But usually those guys will be kind enough to take my place at the door.

Your views on chivalry are again flawed.
Take a look here and see that your definition of chivalry is incorrect.
Therefore now we are arguing about the need for chivalry, not the meaning.

I’ve never been to GameFAQs…but its sad that you consider me a troll. Usually the ones who come onto forums whining about their flawed views and insulting everyone who disagrees are the trolls.

Chivalry isn’t dead to anyone but jerks like you.
Grow up, kid.