How do you convince those who do not believe life begins at conception?

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CWBetts said:
Any introductory Biology textbook
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Yea I just checked one and gave you a source to (our university biology text book). It did not indicate any requirement for it to be a different species.

I do not have any books in parasites above the basic biology level.
 
Abbadon said:
Parasites live in a close obligatory association with one or more host species for most of their lives. They gain sustenance from their host, which is harmed but not often killed. Parasites are usually smaller than their host. They may live on the surface of their host or internally.

— Biology 3rd edition - Knox, Ladiges - Evans -Saint

Doesn’t say anything about it having to be a different species.
Parasites are sometimes desired you understand? Also we didn’t really cover parasites in Biology 102 (Genetics and the Evolution of Life) other than the ecological relationships of parasites.

But I could easily be wrong. Can you state a source for your claim?
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Sorry forgot a page number my bad pg 1054-1055
 
Abbadon said:
But what about a nice sincere woman? Completely in control of all her faculties, who for some reason or another needs to have this abortion? Will you just tie her up and feed her through a tube for 9 months? What kind of sick twisted society would we be if we did that to someone? How would that traumatize and effect her? Would she become suicidal, would it scar her? Women have been seen as the breeding pods of society for so long, we just cannot do something like that. It would send our society back morally and ethically to the middle ages.
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Breeding pods? Seriously? If we have been doing it for ages, why does no one but you, use that term? I have never heard it, and it does not describe any view of women I’m familiar with.

Abbadon, it sounds like your world is a very cold place. I hope things get better for you.

You know, just last night I went and visited the breeding pod that carried me for nine months. She made me, my kids, and their breeding pod a really nice dinner!
 
max37 said:
Breeding pods? Seriously? If we have been doing it for ages, why does no one but you, use that term? I have never heard it, and it does not describe any view of women I’m familiar with.

Abbadon, it sounds like your world is a very cold place. I hope things get better for you.

You know, just last night I went and visited the breeding pod that carried me for nine months. She made me, my kids, and their breeding pod a really nice dinner!
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Yes thats what I’m against. Didn’t you read the rest of it. For most of history women were just used for sexual pleasure and producing children as well as doing menial tasks weather they enjoyed it or not.

It has only been recently that women can vote, have a say and can have an education. I like that.

**Maybe I wasn’t clear. I was saying we cannot enslave women and make them have a baby, it’s just wrong. **

breeding pod seemed like a nice way of summing up how women were treated. Seriously just look back through history, women did not have it easy most of the time. I mean if you found your self a nice man or were a queen sure. But if you were arranged or sold or given to someone else. Just look at the bible if you need and see how in the old testament women were looked upon.
 
Abbadon said:
Yes thats what I’m against. Didn’t you read the rest of it. For most of history women were just used for sexual pleasure and producing children as well as doing menial tasks weather they enjoyed it or not.

It has only been recently that women can vote, have a say and can have an education. I like that.

**Maybe I wasn’t clear. I was saying we cannot enslave women and make them have a baby, it’s just wrong. **

breeding pod seemed like a nice way of summing up how women were treated. Seriously just look back through history, women did not have it easy most of the time. I mean if you found your self a nice man or were a queen sure. But if you were arranged or sold or given to someone else. Just look at the bible if you need and see how in the old testament women were looked upon.
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Fallicious argument. You cannot provide how you percieve women were treated in a single culture to prove a sweeping gneralization for all of history. It is an irrelevant argumnet be cause the abortuin issue is about the sytematic slaughter of a class of humans who are deemed unworthy to protect.
 
CWBetts said:
Fallicious argument. You cannot provide how you percieve women were treated in a single culture to prove a sweeping gneralization for all of history. It is an irrelevant argumnet be cause the abortuin issue is about the sytematic slaughter of a class of humans who are deemed unworthy to protect.
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Well how exactly do you propose we protect them? How do you stop a woman having an abortion? What are you going to do about it?
 
Abbadon said:
On a purely technical note, it’s both, a baby is a parasite by definition.

Parasite: An organism that lives in or on and takes its nourishment from another organism. A parasite cannot live independently.
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No - the definition of parasite is very different.
 
Abbadon said:
Y
**Maybe I wasn’t clear. I was saying we cannot enslave women and make them have a baby, it’s just wrong. **

.
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Women have other options than abortion. Adoption. Abortion is exploitative and cruel to both child and mother. Abortion detrimentally affects a woman’s health, whereas pregnancy has beneficial effects.
 
Jennifer123 said:
Women have other options than abortion. Adoption. Abortion is exploitative and cruel to both child and mother. Abortion detrimentally affects a woman’s health, whereas pregnancy has beneficial effects.
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Yea i’d be okay with that, whatever happens to the babies after that is their own problem. Or societies if it can deal with it.

But IF she needs cancer treatment she should be able to do so.

Also perhaps the people wanting her to go through with the pregnancies (religious institution individgual) and all the loss related with it, work, education, physical pain. Can pay a fee proportional to do so?

This could work…
 
Abbadon said:
Well how exactly do you propose we protect them? How do you stop a woman having an abortion? What are you going to do about it?
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the first thing to do is recriminalize abortion and assign it the same penalty as murder, because that is what it is. Will this stop all abortions? No. Will it drastically reduce them? Yes.
 
Abbadon said:
Yea i’d be okay with that, whatever happens to the babies after that is their own problem. Or societies if it can deal with it.

But IF she needs cancer treatment she should be able to do so.

Also perhaps the people wanting her to go through with the pregnancies (religious institution individgual) and all the loss related with it, work, education, physical pain. Can pay a fee proportional to do so?

This could work…
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Well, a woman can receive cancer treatment, or any kind of life-saving treatment, as long as the original intent is not to directly kill the child.

As for helping mothers with “unintended” pregnancies, you can be assured that Catholics, and other Christians, help these women more than you know.
 
CWBetts said:
the first thing to do is recriminalize abortion and assign it the same penalty as murder, because that is what it is. Will this stop all abortions? No. Will it drastically reduce them? Yes.
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But there are lots of ways to kill a baby without having a safe abortion. You could do alot of things and claim neglect.

I doubt it would drastically reduce them, perhaps reduce them but to what end? It will just go underground as has drugs. Or be set up in international waters as some countries are now doing.

I think the best solution is to appeal to the emotions of women to not have the abortion.

I just don’t like the idea of forcing someone into a birth, criminalizing abortion does just that. You don’t need walls to have a prison.
 
Jennifer123 said:
Well, a woman can receive cancer treatment, or any kind of life-saving treatment, as long as the original intent is not to directly kill the child.

As for helping mothers with “unintended” pregnancies, you can be assured that Catholics, and other Christians, help these women more than you know.
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But there is no way of knowing original intent.

I’m sure they do help them, but I’m talking about a monetary form of compensation.

But then what happens to all these children? Perhaps we could have a scheme were the pro life community will compensate and then adopt the baby from the mother. That would work wouldn’t it?
 
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