How do you feel about atheists?

[MrEmpiricism]

But you ought to consider the possibility that there is a Who.

Also, I know you’ve been busy, as all of us typically are, but you asserted that you could provide independently verifiable evidence for the existence of the mind and the existence of numbers.

Could you please do so?

EEG machines are independently verifiable evidence for the existence of the mind. As for numbers, they are a concept.

 

[PRmerger]

Apologies, I honestly meant no offensive I was making a light the question you asked me as that is one of Sye Tens favourite tricks.

And it’s a trenchant and warranted “trick”, to be sure.

While Sye, also, is a fundamentalist and much of what he offers as apologia is to be rejected, every sane person has some truth.

That’s why I rarely fall for the genetic fallacy.

If it’s true, it’s true regardless of the source.

Just because, for example, Fred Phelps might have said, “Washington DC is the capital of the US” would be no reason for you to reject that statement, right?

 

[MrEmpiricism]

So what else is emotion the product of?

Electricity for one.

 

[Contarini]

people were discussing a star being a thermonuclear fusion of hydrogen into helium?

No. You didn’t say “they didn’t know the answer,” but “can you imagine telling people 1000 years ago we would know what the stars are composed of.”

Quite different. The former statement is tritely obvious; the latter is silly.

If you told an intellectual (in Europe–but of course mutatis mutandis something similar would be the case in the Islamic world, or India, or China) 1000 years ago that your culture had discovered what the stars were made of, he would respond, “what great natural philosophers you must be.”

Edwin

 

[RebeccaJ]

I wish you could come evangelize one of the printers in my office that suddenly decided to start printing in Klingon and only partial pages at that . I did manage to find an obscure setting having something to do with soft fonts that seems to have appeased the computer gods for now

Man vs technology.

 

[MrEmpiricism]

Which means, amusingly, that you are quite certain that there is no such thing as absolute certainty.

#inconsistent
#selfrefuting

No it does not, and as offended as you many have been that is the exact silly semantic nonsense that sye ten loves to spout. How on earth could I be absolute certain that there is no such thing as absolute certainty when I reject the very notion.

 

[RebeccaJ]

And there are literally 1000s of papers on the existence of God.

Just apply your skepticism to these arguments to me.

#wedontfindtheevidencecompelling
#wearethesame

There it is. The beginning of the end of atheism, with strong nihilism, ended for me when I did just that. My world unraveled.

 

[MrEmpiricism]

No. You didn’t say “they didn’t know the answer,” but “can you imagine telling people 1000 years ago we would know what the stars are composed of.”

Quite different. The former statement is tritely obvious; the latter is silly.

If you told an intellectual (in Europe–but of course mutatis mutandis something similar would be the case in the Islamic world, or India, or China) 1000 years ago that your culture had discovered what the stars were made of, he would respond, “what great natural philosophers you must be.”

Edwin

Is there really any point in us debating a statement from a post as opposed to us debating the actual argument presented in the post?

 

[PRmerger]

No it does not, and as offended as you many have been that is the exact silly semantic nonsense that sye ten loves to spout. How on earth could I be absolute certain that there is no such thing as absolute certainty when I reject the very notion.

So it’s possible for you to be absolutely certain about something?

#Imconfusednow

And, since you did state that you do believe in objective truth as a scientist, does this mean that you’re not absolutely certain that 2 parallel lines can’t be perpendicular to each other?

 

[Faithdancer]

Which means, amusingly, that you are quite certain that there is no such thing as absolute certainty.

#inconsistent
#selfrefuting

Unless one rejects the notion of absolute certainty because of a degree of uncertainty. But then one can never be certain about anything. Of course, to say that, in itself, implies certainty so actually one cannot be certain that one can never be certain about anything.

It is a mobius strip of uncertainty.

 

[PRmerger]

Is there really any point in us debating a statement from a post as opposed to us debating the actual argument presented in the post?

Yes, there is worth in doing so.

It’s a question that needs to be answered by you.

 

[PRmerger]

Electricity for one.

Anything else?

 

[PRmerger]

EEG machines are independently verifiable evidence for the existence of the mind.

Do millipedes have a mind? They have a brain, which presumably could be hooked up to an EEG which would detect their electrical activity.

As for numbers, they are a concept.

Are concepts only in existence if a human mind can conceive of it?

 

[Contarini]

Is there really any point in us debating a statement from a post as opposed to us debating the actual argument presented in the post?

Well, perhaps you should restate the argument and then we can discuss that.

I’m not sure what the argument was. But your dismissive attitude to “people 1000 years ago” is probably quite closely related to the basic issues at stake in this discussion.

Edwin

 

[Faithdancer]

Do millipedes have a mind? They have a brain, which presumably could be hooked up to an EEG which would detect their electrical activity.

Let’s not go shocking the millipedes and making them angry! They are creepy enough as it is, with all those legs…

 

[Faithdancer]

Well, perhaps you should restate the argument and then we can discuss that.

I’m not sure what the argument was. But your dismissive attitude to “people 1000 years ago” is probably quite closely related to the basic issues at stake in this discussion.

Edwin

It actually relates to why the account of creation in Genesis does correlate with our understanding of the Big Bang. Of course, that account cannot truly be understood without a systematic theological approach that also takes Job and certain other passages (Psalms, etc.) into account.
:yup::dancing:

 

[MrEmpiricism]

So it’s possible for you to be absolutely certain about something?

#Imconfusednow

And, since you did state that you do believe in objective truth as a scientist, does this mean that you’re not absolutely certain that 2 parallel lines can’t be perpendicular to each other?

No, because as I have explained numerous times not I reject the concept.

So you are basically asking me if the logical absolutes are absolute. Then I will answer yes. However, when I am discussing absolute certainty I am doing to in respect to knowledge claims i.e. the level to which we can be sure something is true. If you want to include the logical absolutes then they are the only situations where I would be happy to include the word absolutely. I should have been clearer and hopefully that will go some way to clearing up the confusion.

 

[MrEmpiricism]

Well, perhaps you should restate the argument and then we can discuss that.

I’m not sure what the argument was. But your dismissive attitude to “people 1000 years ago” is probably quite closely related to the basic issues at stake in this discussion.

Edwin

Actually no, it is not. And were was I ever dismissive to people of 1000 years ago? I was simply explaining that we cannot know what we will be capable of in the future and that our understanding of the cosmos is ever increasing. With the example that we have a far greater understanding of the universe that people did 1000 years ago.

If you want to join the discussion in a constructive manner, instead of looking for quote mines to attack and making baseless accusations, why not go and read the discussion.

 

[MrEmpiricism]

Anything else?

Yes…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience

 

[MrEmpiricism]

Do millipedes have a mind? They have a brain, which presumably could be hooked up to an EEG which would detect their electrical activity.

Are concepts only in existence if a human mind can conceive of it?

Define mind.

I have no idea.