How do you feel about atheists?

[gracepoole]

I spent the first 20 years of my life in SW Michigan and most of my family still lives there. It’s home base. And my memories include being taunted for mowing one’s lawn on a Sunday, communities in which it’s actually illegal to open a business on Sunday, and lots of seriously close-minded neighbors. It’s also a region that’s heavily controlled by the Christian Reformed, which isn’t exactly the most welcoming denomination…

On a separate note, I’m really wondering if those posting here with negative thoughts and impressions about atheists have really met these people face-to-face or if they’re going off of online interactions and characterizations. Nearly all of my friends are atheists and I’ve never encountered the attitudes described by some here…

 

[gracepoole]

I understand the cliched arguments about us having to love the enemy and whatnot

First, the “cliched arguments about us having to love the enemy”? I didn’t realize that the Golden Rule was a cliche. Second, viewing all atheists as “the enemy” is the point where thinking about and interacting with these folks has taken a wrong turn.

 

[rweidn]

The serious atheists who think through their subject and their reason leads them to their atheism, you have to respect them. Are they not truth seekers like the rest of us? I have more respect for them than agnostics, many of whom i find just don’t want to think about it. I loved to listen to Christopher Hitchens because of his oratory style. I even got to like Richard Dawkins and one day i hope (and pray) that he makes heaven so that maybe he can get his science questions answered. They are not the enemy, if anything they question your faith and keep it dynamic.

 

[AKDee]

On a separate note, I’m really wondering if those posting here with negative thoughts and impressions about atheists have really met these people face-to-face or if they’re going off of online interactions and characterizations. Nearly all of my friends are atheists and I’ve never encountered the attitudes described by some here…

I have, which is why I classify them in two classifications- atheists and anti-theists.

My cousin is an atheist and for a while fell into the anti-theist variety where she openly mocked Christians. A friend of mine is an atheist who doesn’t mock believers. Another former friend was an anti-theist wiccan that routinely mocked believers and ultimately I chose to end my friendship with her in a non-confrontational way because it became apparent that she could not respect me and also post the stuff she was posting on her social networking pages. My fiance is agnostic bordering on atheist (please pray for him) as are his parents. I have a number of agnostic friends, as well.

I don’t mind atheists who don’t believe but don’t try to prevent others from believing or worshiping and aren’t always trying to get every public act of worship banned. They can be good people- I do believe the law of God is written on our hearts, whether we believe or not.

I do mind anti-theists or militant atheists who take it as their mission in life to mock, belittle, and openly oppose the rights of people of faith. I do see them as a threat to my rights, and I find them unpleasant to be around and generally I don’t find them to be good people because good people don’t act hateful towards other people.

 

[Contarini]

:sad_yes: Atheistic persons are by nature foolish.

If you are thinking of Psalm 14:1, that passage pretty clearly isn’t talking about what we would call atheists today–people who disbelieve in God as a matter of honest intellectual conviction. It’s a poem about the evils of the world–a world in which everybody probably believed in the existence of God and/or the gods. It’s making a strong, shocking statement: these people behave so wickedly that it seems as if they mustn’t really believe in God.

We shouldn’t respect those who disrespect God.

Yes, because they are made in God’s image, and God respects them. What they think of God is really irrelevant. Most of them don’t actually have a clue what the word “God” means. None of us have more than a clue, but as N. T. Wright once said that he said to many atheists, “I may not believe in the God that you don’t believe in.” That’s my impression of most atheists–the “god” they don’t believe in (and they leave off the capital for a reason–they really don’t see the difference between God and a god) shouldn’t be believed in. They are really rejecting idolatry when they reject this “god.”

Some of them may possibly have some inkling of the reality of God and reject it out of sinful pride. We are all sinners, and given how stubbornly Christians and other theists often resist God, it would be naive to suppose that atheists don’t as well. But to say as a blanket statement that atheists “disrespect God” is I think just as inaccurate as it is uncharitable. (In fact, truth and charity are never really opposed to each other.)

Atheistic persons of course deserve the natural dignity of being human, such as food, clothing, and companionship

They are made in God’s image. that’s a lot more than material things such as those you mention, though it includes the right to such things. Each atheist, like each other human, is of infinite value.

I’m not attempting to be rude. I’m attempting to be honest.

I’m sure you are honestly expressing what you believe–as are most atheists That doesn’t make either you or them right

Dmar198 is right. Anyone who supports objectively destructive practices are of the Devil, regardless of their seemingly “loving” or “good” persona.

Nope. That’s Manichean heresy. Every human being is created by God. The people Jesus referred to as “children of the devil” in John were highly religious people, and obviously that doesn’t mean that their being comes from the devil but that their arrogant claims of superiority over others do. That’s why we theists should be very, very careful about how we speak of atheists or of others with whom we disagree, lest we turn out to be, in this sense, “of the devil” ourselves.

Yes, 1 John 3:10 speaks of anyone who doesn’t practice righteousness being “of the devil,” but note the second half of that verse, “or anyone who does not love his brother.”

Perhaps we should start with our own inability to love if we really want to fight the Devil. We don’t fight the Devil by demonizing others. We fight the devil by loving those whom we find least lovable.

Our unwillingness to fight the Devil and his minions is the main factor behind why Satan is gaining so much ground, with the Supreme Court’s ruling on same-sex marriage being a result of such conquest.

Well, I would agree with this, but we probably have opposite ideas on what fighting the Devil would mean.

Some of us seem willing to let Atheists gradually progress into Hell.

Some of us don’t presume to know who is or is not going to hell.

I understand the cliched arguments about us having to love the enemy and whatnot, but isn’t justice also a part of love?

Absolutely. That’s why your injustice to atheists is such a serious problem.

Praying for souls isn’t enough. We are physical creatures, are we not? Within our abilities, it should be natural for us to use physical deeds as ways of bringing others closer to divine truths. Prayer must be matched with action.

Actively fighting enemies of God is far from unloving. :knight1:

Not clear what you mean. Are you suggesting beating atheists up? Killing them? Passing laws to throw them in jail?

I hope you don’t mean any of these things, but then maybe you should explain what you do mean.

Edwin

 

[PRmerger]

How do you feel about atheists? Do you pity them? Hope for them? Argue with them? Pray for them?

There are some atheists that, frankly, I’d rather have my back than some Christians.

:sad_yes:

 

[PRmerger]

I feel sad for atheists, they don’t have enough holidays!

What about Christmas?

Oh…wait…

that’s a Christian holiday.

I’d forgotten.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[PRmerger]

Pretty good so far.

But what about when they cause “trouble” in your life? For instance, insulting your faith or even the idea of God existing?

Now, if they insult my faith, just like with anyone who insults my mama or my kids…I let them have it.

 

[spedteacherita]

How do you feel about atheists? Do you pity them? Hope for them? Argue with them? Pray for them?

I use a Roku to stream TV channels for me - they are definitely NOT cable but you can get some interesting ones. What brought me here was watching and listening to EWTN and the Catholic Channel but I also get my fill of some Protestant ones and I watch all to fulfill my need for spiritual food and Biblical teaching.

One cool channel I recently found was Genesis Science Network which looks at Earth’s history from a Creation perspective and the reality of a global flood. One perspective that I’ve taken from the lectures and programs is that we are taught and have been taught from the Evolution perspective. We lose a lot of people from Christianity because the time spent in school with the stories about how we evolved from monkeys overwhelms the time families spend teaching Christian values and time we spend worshiping in church.

Atheists can be brought into conversation via a new understanding and truth of how there were dinosaurs on the ark and that they died out after the waters receded. The types of fossils we have found happened within the elements of a vast flood that happened quickly so plants and animals were quickly covered with a variety of sediments.

I’ve thoroughly enjoyed the Biblical perspective they have put on the Flood and what it did and makes a lot more sense than what I learned in school and in books about how man developed from ape-like creatures.

You can find this “channel” on the web, too. It’s genesissciencenetwork.com/.

God bless, all!

Rita

 

[punisherthunder]

There are some atheists that, frankly, I’d rather have my back than some Christians.

:sad_yes:

I empathize with you on that. I’ve known some Christians who are scum, and some atheists who were the nicest, most generous people on Earthy. Funny how that works out.

 

[Contarini]

We lose a lot of people from Christianity because the time spent in school with the stories about how we evolved from monkeys overwhelms the time families spend teaching Christian values and time we spend worshiping in church.

Actually, I think exactly the opposite is the case. We lose a lot of people from Christianity because they are taught in their churches that Biblical literalism and the denial of clear scientific evidence are essential truths of the Faith.

Atheists can be brought into conversation via a new understanding and truth of how there were dinosaurs on the ark and that they died out after the waters receded.

How do you propose to convince atheists of this, when you can’t even convince most educated Christians?

I was brought up creationist. I do not find creationism believable. The Catholic Church does not teach creationism. Why on earth would you embark in such a leaky. . . . ark?

The types of fossils we have found happened within the elements of a vast flood that happened quickly so plants and animals were quickly covered with a variety of sediments.

Well, that’s what they say. The evidence doesn’t hold up. Almost no scientists with credentials believe it. (To be fair, my doctor does, and he’s not only a fine doctor but has a research background in molecular biology. . . . )

By the way, evolution is banned as a discussion topic, so this may get the thread closed down. . . . .

Edwin

 

[PRmerger]

I empathize with you on that. I’ve known some Christians who are scum, and some atheists who were the nicest, most generous people on Earthy. Funny how that works out.

I will preempt any atheist objection of, “If you can be the ‘nicest, most generous person’ without believing in God…why be a Believer?”

with this…

“Because it’s true.”

After all, isn’t that the only reason to believe?

We don’t encourage someone* to believe in Santa, even if it makes her good and happy.

Why?

Because it’s not true. Sadly, there is no jolly fat man who lives at the north pole delivering toys to good little boys and girls.

Truth trumps everything.

Be a Believer not because it makes you good and happy, but because you have investigated the claims, and have found them to be true.

*mentally healthy adults

 

[Darryl_Revok]

:sad_yes: Atheistic persons are by nature foolish. We shouldn’t respect those who disrespect God.

Ah, but there’s the rub. What does it mean to disrespect God?

The problem is one of definition. The word “God” covers a vast range of concepts and ideas, many contradictory, many highly unpalatable (the blood-drenched YHWH of the Old Testament, for instance). As a Catholic, your definition of God is well-argued and set in stone–but it is not the only definition. I only speak for myself, but as an atheist, I don’t assign greater value to one concept of God than I do another. Therefore, the “God” of one sect might deserve respect, while that of another is deserved of contempt. But as all have equal value, there’s really no reason to play favorites. That’s where the “disrespect” comes in.

Actively fighting enemies of God is far from unloving. :knight1:

How do you determine if you’re fighting on behalf of God, or merely one of his earthly representatives with baser motives?

 

[PRmerger]

Ah, but there’s the rub. What does it mean to disrespect God?

The problem is one of definition. The word “God” covers a vast range of concepts and ideas, many contradictory, many highly unpalatable (the blood-drenched YHWH of the Old Testament, for instance). As a Catholic, your definition of God is well-argued and set in stone–but it is not the only definition. I only speak for myself, but as an atheist, I don’t assign greater value to one concept of God than I do another. Therefore, the “God” of one sect might deserve respect, while that of another is deserved of contempt. But as all have equal value, there’s really no reason to play favorites. That’s where the “disrespect” comes in.

How do you determine if you’re fighting on behalf of God, or merely one of his earthly representatives with baser motives?

Why not just go with the classical theism def of God? That’s the God of the Philosophers.

 

[PRmerger]

How do you determine if you’re fighting on behalf of God, or merely one of his earthly representatives with baser motives?

Because that, by definition, isn’t God.

 

[Darryl_Revok]

Atheists can be brought into conversation via a new understanding and truth of how there were dinosaurs on the ark and that they died out after the waters receded. The types of fossils we have found happened within the elements of a vast flood that happened quickly so plants and animals were quickly covered with a variety of sediments.

IMHO, the YEC perspective is crippled by the abyss of time.

Forget the dinosaurs for a moment; and consider the humble trilobite. From the old-earth perspective, the trilobite lived about 250 million years, leaving millions of fossil specimens covering over 17,000 species before disappearing after a simmering mass extinction 250 million years ago.

Yet, according to the YEC crowd, I’m to believe that this enormously prodigious, enormously diverse class of animal constituting a huge biomass lived for a 1,600 years before being wiped out in one fell swoop lasting forty days? A swoop that spared other marine arthropods like shrimp and lobsters? No residuals? No stragglers?

I’m dubious.

 

[Darryl_Revok]

Because that, by definition, isn’t God.

What of the Crusades? These were glorious struggles against the enemies of God, and were usually initiated via papal bull. Thus, the lines between sacred and venal tend to blur, I think.

 

[Darryl_Revok]

Why not just go with the classical theism def of God? That’s the God of the Philosophers.

But it’s still dependent on the definition accorded by a segment of humanity. It’s merely a conceptualization of God. It may perhaps be more applicable, or may make more sense than many others, but it’s still a concept reliant on human definition and interpretation.

 

[schaeffer]

I, apparently, fall into a category of atheists not mentioned yet, where a person of another faith declares I am an atheist because I don’t believe in their understanding of God. Because they, understandably so, believe that is the one and only God.

Example of conversations that have actually taken place.

Them: if you don’t believe in the (fill in religion) God, then what DO you believe.

Me: I’m a Pantheist

Them: Oh, so you’re an atheist without enough guts to say so. At least I can respect the honesty of atheists who don’t hide behind meaningless terms.

Me: I’m not an atheist, I practice a religion.

Them: You’re intellectually dishonest, you can’t have a religion without a god.

Me:

Them: You’re the worst kind of atheist, you delude yourself into believing you practice a religion, but you actually worship yourself as a godlike authority.

Me:

Often followed by the familiar soliloquy about how atheists are all intellectually dishonest, because they all claim they have no beliefs but their belief that there is no god is actually a belief and that atheism is basically a religion in itself.

Me: That’s all very interesting but I’m not an atheist.

Them: yes you are, you’re the worst kind, one who is dishonest. What happened to you that makes you hate god so much?

Ok, then!

I’m an other proclaimed atheist apparently.

 

[Darryl_Revok]

What about Christmas?

Oh…wait…

that’s a Christian holiday.

I’d forgotten.

Even as an atheist, I don’t have any compunctions about doing my part to support America’s economy by contributing in the buying and gifting of goods and products.

Once you understand that the semiotics of American Christmas are primarily economic rather than religious, it becomes much more palatable.