How do you feel about atheists?

[lax16]

I would like to see the same level of rigorous methodology that I require to accept any truth claim. If you are asking me to provide evidence for god for you then I am sorry I can not do that, for as far as I am aware there is no verifiable evidence to support god. If you think there is then it is up to YOU to supply it, not me.

Great! Give me the criteria for your level of rigorous methodology that you require to accept any truth claim. (Obviously, I am not a mind reader!)

You must have me confused with another poster. I have not asked you to provide evidence for God.

I will try to provide proof for God, but am very unclear what your parameters are. Please provide.

 

[josie_L]

I have no methodology, as I am not making any claim

I meant that the methodologies we would use in science cannot be applied to God because He is outside the bounds of the Universe.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

First of all, is this thread getting a bit close to discussion of a “prohibited topic”?

I am curious as to why billions of people accept what I consider to be illogical claims. I honestly do not mean any offense by that, it really is the best way to explain it.

I wonder the same. Part of my journey to understand. I have a handful of working theories. Perhaps the Christians here will charitably correct me if wrong but so far it seems to be one or more of these:

1. God makes sense to them. A world without makes next to no sense.
2. There is little no purpose to most/all things without God.
   2b) “good” is difficult to determine and/or do without God as a reference or source.
3. To fill a need that apparently 90+% of people seem to have. This reason is not meant to address the validity of belief.

 

[johnnyc176]

I am glad to see them on the forum. They are searching for God and at the same time responding to God who never ceases to bring man to himself.

The desire for God is written in the human heart, because man is created by God and for God; and God never ceases to draw man to himself. Only in God will he find the truth and happiness he never stops searching for:

The dignity of man rests above all on the fact that he is called to communion with God. This invitation to converse with God is addressed to man as soon as he comes into being. For if man exists it is because God has created him through love, and through love continues to hold him in existence. He cannot live fully according to truth unless he freely acknowledges that love and entrusts himself to his creator.

 

[Faithdancer]

Another response to the OP: I believe that many “atheists” visit these forums because deep down inside, they are searching for truth and know, though they might not admit it, that there is no truth in atheism. Why else would they spend so much time on here, if their philosophy is so enlightened and satisfying?

I don’t frequent atheist forums, why would I? No truth there, just Christian bashing.

 

[Servant19]

There is nothing faith based about the placebo effect or mental encouragement.

Um of course it’s an observable phenomenon.

When I pray for courage and i get courage, it’s an observable phenomenon too.

Placebo effect, inner mental encouragement and prayer are all faith based.

When a psychiatrist gives a sugar pill to test for placebo in an antipsychotic drug trial, they have “faith” that the placebo will take place too.

The last thing to consider is that placebo and inner mental encouragement are two things.
With inner mental encouragement, one WANTS something and continues to encourage oneself internally, but with placebo, there is no inner drive or desire for anything, it’s basically a “let’s see what happens”

These are two separate phenomena.

I am not comparing prayer to placebo

I am comparing prayer to inner mental empowerment, which majority of human beings do (except some small minority like yourself it seems )

.

 

[Lou2U]

Another response to the OP: I believe that many “atheists” visit these forums because deep down inside, they are searching for truth and know, though they might not admit it, that there is no truth in atheism. Why else would they spend so much time on here, if their philosophy is so enlightened and satisfying?

I don’t frequent atheist forums, why would I? No truth there, just Christian bashing.

Well, I’m not Atheist (I’m Agnostic) but the reason I’m on this forum is because I love learning and want to learn more about Catholicism. I’m not searching for truth, just wanting to know more since I don’t know any Catholics in real life.

Lou

 

[Faxero]

Some of the posts on this thread really bother and upset me. I am Agnostic, which means I have no knowledge of whether there is a God or not. To suggest that Atheists do not deserve respect because they do not believe is sickening to me. To say that all Atheists are arrogant is like suggesting all Catholics hate women - simply not true.

Atheists are people. I believe that people should not be judged by their religious belief or lack of belief. People should be judged on their words and actions.

Well, a person’s religious beliefs and values influence their words and actions. Thus, It would be reasonable to evaluate the morality and dispositions of human persons based on their religious convictions, or lack of them.

Even if the person in question does not seem to fulfill whatever religious convictions he might have, the religious convictions by themselves are telling, for they reveal what the person aims to become.

I’m beginning to empiricalize you are a troll.

:nope: I don’t think MrEmpiricism is trolling. I occasionally lurk on Atheistic forums and they seem to hold this consensus.

 

[Lou2U]

Well, a person’s religious beliefs and values influence their words and actions. Thus, It would be reasonable to evaluate the morality and dispositions of human persons based on their religious convictions, or lack of them.

Even if the person in question does not seem to fulfill whatever religious convictions he might have, the religious convictions by themselves are telling, for they reveal what the person aims to become.

I agree with you that a religious belief will affect words and actions, and so will a lack of religious belief. But saying that a person does not deserve respect because they are not religious is offensive to those people and is way too over the top.

Lou

 

[Faithdancer]

First of all, is this thread getting a bit close to discussion of a “prohibited topic”?

I wonder the same. Part of my journey to understand. I have a handful of working theories. Perhaps the Christians here will charitably correct me if wrong but so far it seems to be one or more of these:

1. God makes sense to them. A world without makes next to no sense.
2. There is little no purpose to most/all things without God.
   2b) “good” is difficult to determine and/or do without God as a reference or source.
3. To fill a need that apparently 90+% of people seem to have. This reason is not meant to address the validity of belief.

To truly understand, you must come to know Christ. The Christian faith is not reduceable to a few utilitarian theories, any more than God is reduceable to something you can study with a microscope, or a telescope.

 

[Servant19]

I agree with you that a religious belief will affect words and actions, and so will a lack of religious belief. But saying that a person does not deserve respect because they are not religious is offensive to those people and is way too over the top.

Lou

Well said Lou

.

 

[lax16]

First of all, is this thread getting a bit close to discussion of a “prohibited topic”?

I wonder the same. Part of my journey to understand. I have a handful of working theories. Perhaps the Christians here will charitably correct me if wrong but so far it seems to be one or more of these:

1. God makes sense to them. A world without makes next to no sense.
2. There is little no purpose to most/all things without God.
   2b) “good” is difficult to determine and/or do without God as a reference or source.
3. To fill a need that apparently 90+% of people seem to have. This reason is not meant to address the validity of belief.

1. God’s teachings make sense to me. And they make sense when I apply them to all situations and all people. A world without them is chaotic and is very difficult, if not impossible, to navigate peacefully.

2). I can’t say that without God there is no purpose. I know agnostics and atheists with purpose. The difference is I align all decisions with God’s will and see his hand in everything.

1. Jesus is the ultimate role model for goodness and it was God’s plan to enter the world as a human. I can totally relate to the humanity and struggle of Jesus by aligning my troubles with his.

4). I need a road map for sure. This one is fool proof - I should know, I have put it into practice 50x/day for the past fifty years. And the road always leads to peace and hope.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

To truly understand, you must come to know Christ. The Christian faith is not reduceable to a few utilitarian theories, any more than God is reduceable to something you can study with a microscope, or a telescope.

So believe, then the belief will make sense. Well that’s a tough one but I appreciate your honesty regarding faith.

 

[Servant19]

So believe, then the belief will make sense. Well that’s a tough one but I appreciate your honesty regarding faith.

Well if we are to observe history we would see that a large proportion of social and scientific advancements arose as a result of some “hope” or “faith” or “belief in something”

There is nothing stopping individuals from making human advancement through a similar approach…

“I believe the cure for cancer exists…”
All oncologist research is based on this premise…

.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

Well if we are to observe history we would see that a large proportion of social and scientific advancements arose as a result of some “hope” or “faith” or “belief in something”

There is nothing stopping individuals from making human advancement through a similar approach…

“I believe the cure for cancer exists…”
All oncologist research is based on this premise…

.

And your oncologist already believes. But if he didn’t believe in a cure, only treatment it would be incredibly difficult to make himself believe in a cure.

I suppose some things are harder for some to believe than others.

 

[Servant19]

And your oncologist already believes. But if he didn’t believe in a cure, only treatment it would be incredibly difficult to make himself believe in a cure.

I suppose some things are harder for some to believe than others.

Of course, if one doesn’t believe in a cure, one obviously never searches.

Life is a grand search dear friend, unearth the mysteries to discover if there is more to just physical existence.

One can, of course, spend their lives looking for “physical things” which is all well and good, but in order to discover God, one has to earnestly believe there is a God.

To discover a Higgs Bosom, one has to earnestly believe there is a Higgs Bosom.

The conceptual framework is exactly the same.

The journey of discovery is an awe-abounding one for each one of us

.

 

[JD1789]

Of course it wont, praying wont do anything empirical.

Have you not seen a study where the patients who were prayed for had better results with their treatments? That would be empirical evidence. Placebo or not, it’s empirical evidence.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

Of course, if one doesn’t believe in a cure, one obviously never searches.

Life is a grand search dear friend, unearth the mysteries to discover if there is more to just physical existence.

One can, of course, spend their lives looking for “physical things” which is all well and good, but in order to discover God, one has to earnestly believe there is a God.

To discover a Higgs Bosom, one has to earnestly believe there is a Higgs Bosom.

The conceptual framework is exactly the same.

The journey of discovery is an awe-abounding one for each one of us

.

Oddly, helping a lost nun in a subway in London is the most convincing thing this far. Another point in the “maybe” column. She had a green habit too.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=953962

 

[Faithdancer]

Oddly, helping a lost nun in a subway in London is the most convincing thing this far. Another point in the “maybe” column. She had a green habit too.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=953962

There are angels all around us. I’ve seen one, up close and personal, but that’s a personal account so there’s no reason you should believe me.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I will think for you was a direct response to I will pray for you, in order to give an analogy of how offensive that is to many non believers. I guess in your mind only theists can be offended?

Prayer doesn’t harm you. You don’t believe it does anything at all. So why be offended?

Believing you think for others can be harmful. But I don’t believe that was your intent. You just want people to stop praying. My husband, the godless , once said “there will be no praying in this house!”. I said, “whatever”.That was it, the bluster all gone, and we have lived happily ever after.

It is irrational to come to a Catholic forum and then get all offended about someone praying. We do pray in this “house”.

I can guarantee you any Catholic reading this thread is praying for you, just not telling you. What you gonna do about it?

God bless you.

-Rebecca